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Trayvon Martin Case

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Old 07-02-2013, 05:56 PM   #646
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Re: Trayvon Martin Case

So as im starting to think ole Z might get off in the criminal trial I start wondering about the likelihood Zimmerman has in winning a civil suite (prob not great). And I do one of those internet searches and I read this:

Zimmerman to argue self-defense, won't seek stand-your-ground hearing - CNN.com

If you guys remember Zimmerman waived his right to a "pre-trial" "stand your ground" review/request in which he could seek immunity towards criminal AND civil liability from a judge. However, based of off the linked article, now I cant help but to think that theres a chance that this thing wont even go to jury decision.

To the law guys out there, am I right in assuming that if things are going the defense's way that they will very likely ask the judge to make an immunity or affirmative defense or other type of ruling that prevents or limits criminal or civil liability before jury deliberations even start?

To me it sounds like Z's defense team is thinking we got 2 trials in 1 going on right now; 1) to throw the whole thing out based off of the stand your ground rights, and 2) if that doesn't work then let the jury decide. Am I correct in the thinking that nothing was really waived by Z's defense team, rather the stand your ground review was just postponed?

Also, any ideas as to what type of civil liability Z is at risk of? I suspect Martin's family could be awarded a huge payout from a jury but wouldn't the big bucks be from punitive damages? And arnt punitive damages dispensable through bankruptcy? Whats the compensatory damages for killing someone when little to no medical bills were incurred?
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Old 07-02-2013, 06:33 PM   #647
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Re: Trayvon Martin Case

Outrage and weed. Smoking weed is not known to encourage aggression.
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Old 07-02-2013, 06:34 PM   #648
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Re: Trayvon Martin Case

I agree with Mountain. Fist fight with teenager not life threatening reason to murder said teenager.
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Old 07-02-2013, 07:03 PM   #649
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Re: Trayvon Martin Case

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I agree with Mountain. Fist fight with teenager not life threatening reason to murder said teenager.
/end thread
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Old 07-02-2013, 07:25 PM   #650
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Re: Trayvon Martin Case

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Ill try and check this out.

With regards to your first post, im just trying to figure out what would it take for you to not think Zimmerman is guilty of murder or manslaughter. In your opinion once Zimmerman started following Martin, does that in your opinion place responsibility on Zimmerman regardless if he stopped and turned around?
He started a confrontation with a stranger, that puts his behavior outside the norm. Gentlemen, have any of you read the interview Z gave the cops 2 days later? Apparently Z said he followed the punk to get an address. Evidently he knew Martin was headed somewhere in the complex. He did not think it was a break in artist.
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Old 07-02-2013, 07:39 PM   #651
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Outrage and weed. Smoking weed is not known to encourage aggression.
But it does alter perception, right?
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Old 07-02-2013, 08:21 PM   #652
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Originally Posted by Gary84Clark View Post
He started a confrontation with a stranger, that puts his behavior outside the norm. Gentlemen, have any of you read the interview Z gave the cops 2 days later? Apparently Z said he followed the punk to get an address. Evidently he knew Martin was headed somewhere in the complex. He did not think it was a break in artist.
Who threw the first punch? Why? Prove it.

Someone aggressively starting a verbal confrontation with you DOES NOT LET YOU START WAILING ON THEM OR EVEN TOUCH THEM. If you do, you are at fault.

Damn. The willingness to ignore legal requirements, innocent until proven guilty and the State's burden to prove their case when you're offended is mind boggling. Pitchforks and torches all around.
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Old 07-02-2013, 08:23 PM   #653
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I agree with Mountain. Fist fight with teenager not life threatening reason to murder said teenager.
Bullshit. It most certainly can be. You are either blinded by bias or an idiot.
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Old 07-02-2013, 08:48 PM   #654
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Re: Trayvon Martin Case

I'm pretty sure this is going to end up a mistrial.
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Old 07-02-2013, 09:10 PM   #655
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Re: Trayvon Martin Case

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I'm pretty sure this is going to end up a mistrial.
Why?
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Old 07-02-2013, 09:15 PM   #656
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Re: Trayvon Martin Case

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Why?
Hung jury.

Else I'm leaning towards not guilty.

Doesn't make me happy, but the prosecution is stinking it up.
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Old 07-02-2013, 09:36 PM   #657
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Re: Trayvon Martin Case

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Bullshit. It most certainly can be. You are either blinded by bias or an idiot.
So i can legally walk around my neighborhood egging on teenagers to assault me and then shoot them in the name of "my life was threatened?"

They are under 18, that the set age to be considered a child and not able to reason as an adult, because of that inept ability to reason they will fight and assault me...so then I can start shooting?

where am i wrong? not trying to be an asshole, just trying to get the reasoning behind my right kill a child
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Old 07-02-2013, 10:16 PM   #658
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Re: Trayvon Martin Case

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Originally Posted by Chico23231 View Post
So i can legally walk around my neighborhood egging on teenagers to assault me and then shoot them in the name of "my life was threatened?"
Dafuq?

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They are under 18, that the set age to be considered a child and not able to reason as an adult,
How old does 6'2" look?

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Originally Posted by Chico23231 View Post
because of that inept ability to reason they will fight and assault me...so then I can start shooting?

where am i wrong?
Yeah, once you turn 18 you get that shit squared away immediately.

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not trying to be an asshole, just trying to get the reasoning behind my right kill a child
Your example is laughably extreme, no one is suggesting taunting a toddler and then drawing down, unless it's an exceedingly vicious toddler, obviously.
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Old 07-02-2013, 10:19 PM   #659
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Re: Trayvon Martin Case

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Originally Posted by Chico23231 View Post
So i can legally walk around my neighborhood egging on teenagers to assault me and then shoot them in the name of "my life was threatened?"
1. Show me where Z "egged [TM] on to assault him". Z clearly confronted him in a verbally aggressive fashion. To my knowledge, however, there is no evidence that Z said "Okay pal, let's duke it out" or any words to that effect. Teenager or not, even in light of someone aggressively questioning you in a public place, you simply do not DO NOT DO NOT have the right to throw the first punch. Simply put, there is just too much unknown about how this fight actually started to prove - beyond a reasonable doubt - that Z either started the fight or that this was a "mutual combat situation".

I can walk around my neighborhood and confront teens and ask them questions. I can do so aggressively as long as I don't do so in a way that reasonably threatened imminent physically harm.

2. There has been conflicting evidence as to whether the injuries demonstrated constituted enough to put him in reasonable fear of his life. You think no teenager in a fight could put an "adult" combatant in fear for his life. I disagree, strongly. [I was a teenager and I promise you I put the fear of God in a couple 20 something guys as I pounded them to a pulp - fortunately for me (and them), others were always there to pull me off].

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chico23231 View Post
They are under 18, that the set age to be considered a child and not able to reason as an adult, because of that inept ability to reason they will fight and assault me...so then I can start shooting?
See, it's not from Martin's perspective but from Z's. If Z reasonably fears for his safety, it matters not that it was from a 10 year old or an 80 year old. The only question is, as he was on the pavement, blood running down his throat, feeling the effects of possible concussive or brain injury (per the EMT), yelling for help (per Good) and pinned to the ground - did he reasonably fear for his life. It doesn't matter if the person who put him into that position was a teen or not.

You don't have to let a teen pound you death just b/c he is a teen.

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where am i wrong? not trying to be an asshole, just trying to get the reasoning behind my right kill a child
"The right to kill a child"? Could you please couch in more emotionally charged language?

You have the right to defend yourself and use deadly force and will suffer no threat of criminal prosecution anytime someone (anyone) assaults you and then uses force that reasonably puts you in fear of your life. While the ages of the combatants are relevant, they are not in and of themselves determinative.
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Old 07-02-2013, 10:37 PM   #660
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Re: Trayvon Martin Case

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1. Show me where Z "egged [TM] on to assault him". Z clearly confronted him in a verbally aggressive fashion. To my knowledge, however, there is no evidence that Z said "Okay pal, let's duke it out" or any words to that effect. Teenager or not, even in light of someone aggressively questioning you in a public place, you simply do not DO NOT DO NOT have the right to throw the first punch. Simply put, there is just too much unknown about how this fight actually started to prove - beyond a reasonable doubt - that Z either started the fight or that this was a "mutual combat situation".

I can walk around my neighborhood and confront teens and ask them questions. I can do so aggressively as long as I don't do so in a way that reasonably threatened imminent physically harm.

2. There has been conflicting evidence as to whether the injuries demonstrated constituted enough to put him in reasonable fear of his life. You think no teenager in a fight could put an "adult" combatant in fear for his life. I disagree, strongly. [I was a teenager and I promise you I put the fear of God in a couple 20 something guys as I pounded them to a pulp - fortunately for me (and them), others were always there to pull me off].



See, it's not from Martin's perspective but from Z's. If Z reasonably fears for his safety, it matters not that it was from a 10 year old or an 80 year old. The only question is, as he was on the pavement, blood running down his throat, feeling the effects of possible concussive or brain injury (per the EMT), yelling for help (per Good) and pinned to the ground - did he reasonably fear for his life. It doesn't matter if the person who put him into that position was a teen or not.

You don't have to let a teen pound you death just b/c he is a teen.



"The right to kill a child"? Could you please couch in more emotionally charged language?

You have the right to defend yourself and use deadly force and will suffer no threat of criminal prosecution anytime someone (anyone) assaults you and then uses force that reasonably puts you in fear of your life. While the ages of the combatants are relevant, they are not in and of themselves determinative.
im sure you never hear that being a lawyer Probably as emotionally charged as the leak that T is a thug gangster. We know teenagers never act tough in general and dress in hoodies these days.

Yeah the age thing is very relevant in my trying to make my point, but that is a good way to put it above.
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