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Trayvon Martin Case

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Old 07-11-2013, 03:08 PM   #916
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Re: Trayvon Martin Case

It does not matter that no one witnessed you killing someone. Hernandez can't claim self defense. why? How do we know Oden did not attack him? No one saw it and no one knows. Hernandez could say self defense. Zimmerman shot and killed an unarmed person. The rest is a mystery.
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Old 07-11-2013, 03:57 PM   #917
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Re: Trayvon Martin Case

Here's something to think about, if Trayvon shot Zimmerman, I don't think would of ever heard anything about it.
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Old 07-11-2013, 04:07 PM   #918
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Re: Trayvon Martin Case

A........hush fell over the crowd...
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Old 07-11-2013, 04:12 PM   #919
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Re: Trayvon Martin Case

Quote:
Originally Posted by CultBrennan59 View Post
Here's something to think about, if Trayvon shot Zimmerman, I don't think would of ever heard anything about it.
You are right because Trayvon would have been in jail. This trial got so much press because Trayvon's body lay in a morgue for almost a week and no one notified his parents as to his whereabouts. He had a celphone on his possession but no one called the contacts labeled mom and dad. They were gonna bury him in an unmarked grave. Zimmerman was going to go on happily ever after and never have to face trial for Martin's death. The hoopla was to just get a trial period. The chief last his job because they were not going to even contact Martin;s parents about the incident. He would have just been "missing" to his parents. That's where all the attention comes from.
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Old 07-11-2013, 04:48 PM   #920
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Re: Trayvon Martin Case

Good strong closing for the prosecution. Highlighted the inconsistencies and lies and tied them tightly to the elements. Strong appeal to the emotions but not so much as to be a transparently BS plea. I do think he left a lot unsaid and that the defense has the opportunity to drive a truck through some the prosecution's own gaps and inconsistencies. Regardless, it was an aggressive, unapologetic closing and well done. Certainly, some of their best work to date.

The defense has its work cut out for them.
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Old 07-11-2013, 04:53 PM   #921
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Re: Trayvon Martin Case

Trayvon's father was notified of Trayvon's death approximately 12 hours after the shooting. A longer time period than should have happened but no where close to a week.
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Old 07-11-2013, 05:01 PM   #922
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Re: Trayvon Martin Case

The defense has some serious work to do because murder 2 is a certainly attainable after the prosecutor's closing.
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Old 07-11-2013, 05:04 PM   #923
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Re: Trayvon Martin Case

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary84Clark View Post
It does not matter that no one witnessed you killing someone. Hernandez can't claim self defense. why? How do we know Oden did not attack him? No one saw it and no one knows. Hernandez could say self defense. Zimmerman shot and killed an unarmed person. The rest is a mystery.
Well it may come down to things like circumstances being different, execution style shooting(though I guess Oden may have ninja talents), one of the guys in the car saying that Hernandez said he shot him (not in a self defense kinda way).

But I guess it's his right to try.
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Old 07-11-2013, 05:15 PM   #924
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Re: Trayvon Martin Case

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Originally Posted by saden1 View Post
I really tired to read and comprehend your cluster **** of a post before I realize you're a dummy.
lol, I'm just quoting websites you brought up yourself, thinking they would support your side. Guess what, they don't.
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Old 07-11-2013, 05:25 PM   #925
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Re: Trayvon Martin Case

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Originally Posted by over the mountain View Post
this is an interesting case. i think everyone here is being "reasonable" in their approach and thoughts but yet we have a split of opinion on the warpath ..


im not a crim def atty, and it appears this has been covered ad nauseum in this thread since you posted .. but after spending 10 seconds i believe what has already been said in here ... the burden is on the defendant to establish a prima facie case of justified self-defense, then the burden swings back to the prosecution to prove beyond a reas doubt that the amount of force used in self defense was unjustified ....

and sufficient evidence to support a prima facie case can come from any where and anyone, it doesnt have to come from the defendant's own mouth or even from the defendant's witnesses . . just as long as the admitted evid at trial supports it . .
Agree with everything you said. I just think that since it's been established that Martin had pinned and was beating Zimmerman up, and there's certainly the possibility that either one started it, the low standard for prima facie self defence has been exceeded by a wide margin. It doesn't prove Zimmerman's innocent, but certainly puts the burden of proof on the prosecution.

I wonder if this trial will be decided by the facts (maybe manslaughter, not murder2), by fear of riots (guilty on something), or something like the Golden Mean Fallacy (manslaughter) with the composition of the jury.
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Old 07-11-2013, 05:30 PM   #926
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Re: Trayvon Martin Case

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary84Clark View Post
It does not matter that no one witnessed you killing someone. Hernandez can't claim self defense. why? How do we know Oden did not attack him? No one saw it and no one knows. Hernandez could say self defense. Zimmerman shot and killed an unarmed person. The rest is a mystery.
Hernandez looks premeditated, but that for another thread. you go with guys to pick him up and drive to an empty lot? I mean thats straight from a Sopranos episode.
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Old 07-11-2013, 06:58 PM   #927
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Re: Trayvon Martin Case

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Originally Posted by Chico23231 View Post
Hernandez looks premeditated, but that for another thread. you go with guys to pick him up and drive to an empty lot? I mean thats straight from a Sopranos episode.
true
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Old 07-12-2013, 11:50 AM   #928
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Re: Trayvon Martin Case

As I expected, Defense is driving a truck through the gaps. Highlighting the requirement that, if jury makes assumptions about evidence, they must make them in favor of defendant.

Good use of photos and physical evidence.

The crux of it for me:

Quote:
8:47 a.m. ET: O'Mara tells jurors they can't fill the gaps or connect the dots for the prosecutors.

"Assumptions presume a lack of evidence," O'Mara said.

8:49 a.m. ET: "Do not give anybody the benefit of the doubt except for George Zimmerman," O'Mara said.

8:51 a.m. ET: “You’ve heard from him, time and time and time again, you’ve heard from him, telling you what happened that night,” said O'Mara, who also asked jurors to not presume why Zimmerman didn't testify.

...

8:57 a.m. ET: "How many ‘coulda- beens’ have you heard from the state in this case? How many ‘what ifs’ have you heard from the state in this case? They don’t get to ask you that. No, no, no," O'Mara said. He also says prosecutors are supposed to show "what I have proven to you."
At the same time, IMO, the narrative seems less emotionally compelling than that of prosecutor's and much less aggressive in attacking the evidence - it's almost like he is apologizing for telling them that the prosecution is wrong. So far, not the best work from them.
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Old 07-12-2013, 12:18 PM   #929
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Re: Trayvon Martin Case

The jury instructions:

http://www.flcourts18.org/PDF/Press_...structions.pdf

Closing remarks of the instructions, something often forgotten and ignored by most people:

Quote:
In closing, let me remind you that it is important that you follow the law spelled out in these instructions in deciding your verdict. There are no other laws that apply to this case.

Even if you do not like the laws that must be applied, you must use them. For two centuries we have lived by the Constitution and the law. No juror has the right to violate rules we all share.
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Last edited by JoeRedskin; 07-12-2013 at 12:28 PM.
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Old 07-12-2013, 12:24 PM   #930
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