Warpath  

Home | Forums | Salary Cap Info | Shop | Donate | Stay Connected




Go Back   Warpath > Off-Topic Discussion > Debating with the enemy


Trayvon Martin Case

Debating with the enemy


Closed Thread
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 07-13-2013, 09:03 AM   #976
Playmaker
 
HailGreen28's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 3,084
Re: Trayvon Martin Case

Quote:
Originally Posted by saden1 View Post
We can speculate about different scenarios including the possibility that Zimmerman had his weapon drawn from the get go and the struggled for the gun ensued while he was attempting to pistol-whip Martin. That fact of the case are pretty simple and it's a matter of using your common sense.
Lol. When anything is possible... look up what reasonable doubt is, and which side it favors in this case.

Quote:
Originally Posted by saden1 View Post
  • Profiled Martin as one of those "****ing punks. Those assholes, they always get away" Numerous prior incidents mainly by young black males. Not a crime for Zimmerman to profile.
  • Pursued Martin Not a crime.
  • Violate community protocol I doubt you know what this means, because even if you know technically what it means, there's no crime here either.
  • Get out of car after Martin allegedly circled his car Not a crime
  • Inconstant statements about what happened Police who were on the scene, and interviewed Zimmerman, and have heard other people repeat stressful accounts repeatedly, have called all of Zimmerman's testimony consistent.
  • Inconsistent statements about why got out of his car Again, the detectives interviewing him called Zimmerman's statements consistent.
  • He didn't identify himself as neighborhood watchman And you think this is a crime, too? LOL.
  • Shoots and kills Martin during a struggle that was avoidable Maybe it was. Do you have any evidence? Saying Zimmerman should have stayed in his truck, his home, etc, could be applied to Martin as well, and would be equally wrong.
  • Goes on national TV and says "This is all god's plan and I wouldn't do anything differently (blatant disregard for human life). That's standard belief for many christians, even in tragedy. lol at "blatant disregard for human life". You never heard christians talk about gods plan before, when something bad happens to them, saden?
So basically all you have, saden, is to try demonizing everything Zimmerman did. "He watched a stranger with the same demographic as previous criminals in that area! He got out of his car! He didn't identify himself! (nevermind you don't even know if this is true or not) He said everything was god's plan! Oh the horror! He's a monster! Guilty! Guilty!"



Quote:
Originally Posted by saden1 View Post
Anything is possible in this world but we have to rely on the facts of the case and the fact of the case are sufficient enough to convict Zimmerman of manslaughter (at a minimum), The burden of proof has been met by the state and nothing in the defense persuasive enough to arrive at an alternative verdict. It is that simple.
I know this will fly over your head, saden, because JoeR has explained this numerous times to you. But just for anyone else reading this: This is a traditional self defense case. Defendant has to make a prima facie case that self-defense was possible. (on the face of things, the self defence claim is plausible). If the defense provides evidence that is the case, it's up to the prosecution to prove that it was not a case of self defense. If there is reasonable doubt that the defendant committed a crime, the verdict should be not guilty, as is normal in criminal cases.

The defense in pre-trial, and the prosecution and defense in court, provide plenty of evidence that self defense was a possibility in this case. Not just "anything could happen", but for example the injuries to Zimmerman (and no injuries from fisticuffs to Martin), eyewitness accounts placing Zimmerman under Martin, Zimmerman's statements (and just look at the situation. For example: If Zimmerman wanted to shoot Martin from the get-go, why did he call 911?)

So the burden of proof is on the prosecution here, to prove manslaughter or murder. Watch the prosecution's closing statement. All they did was cast reasonable doubt on Zimmerman's claims. If the burden of proof was on the defense, this would be a slam-dunk case for the prosecution. But the burden of proof is on the prosecution. And the prosecution put forward nothing that they proved beyond a reasonable doubt. Their theories are no more proven that your idea that Zimmerman ran up to Martin and pistol whipped him (after putting on a white hood, I assume), or that Martin threw the first punch on the "creepy ass cracker". Reasonable doubt means the prosecution has to prove their side more than "anything could have happened".

After Casey Anthony, OJ, the first Rodney King trial, who knows what the jury will do. But barring any new info, murder2 is a joke. Manslaughter depends on what you think of Zimmerman (and how high standard you think reasonable doubt is). A civil action (wrongful death?) is a possibility with a lower standard to prove than manslaughter.

But the comments by some people here... are more embarrassing than Martin's friend's testimony was. Seriously, can you imagine if she said in court what RGIII, saden, and gary84 have said here?
HailGreen28 is offline  

Advertisements
Old 07-13-2013, 09:43 AM   #977
Gamebreaker
 
Chico23231's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Richmond, VA
Age: 38
Posts: 13,390
Re: Trayvon Martin Case

Quote:
Originally Posted by HailGreen28 View Post
Lol. When anything is possible... look up what reasonable doubt is, and which side it favors in this case.

So basically all you have, saden, is to try demonizing everything Zimmerman did. "He watched a stranger with the same demographic as previous criminals in that area! He got out of his car! He didn't identify himself! (nevermind you don't even know if this is true or not) He said everything was god's plan! Oh the horror! He's a monster! Guilty! Guilty!"



I know this will fly over your head, saden, because JoeR has explained this numerous times to you. But just for anyone else reading this: This is a traditional self defense case. Defendant has to make a prima facie case that self-defense was possible. (on the face of things, the self defence claim is plausible). If the defense provides evidence that is the case, it's up to the prosecution to prove that it was not a case of self defense. If there is reasonable doubt that the defendant committed a crime, the verdict should be not guilty, as is normal in criminal cases.

The defense in pre-trial, and the prosecution and defense in court, provide plenty of evidence that self defense was a possibility in this case. Not just "anything could happen", but for example the injuries to Zimmerman (and no injuries from fisticuffs to Martin), eyewitness accounts placing Zimmerman under Martin, Zimmerman's statements (and just look at the situation. For example: If Zimmerman wanted to shoot Martin from the get-go, why did he call 911?)

So the burden of proof is on the prosecution here, to prove manslaughter or murder. Watch the prosecution's closing statement. All they did was cast reasonable doubt on Zimmerman's claims. If the burden of proof was on the defense, this would be a slam-dunk case for the prosecution. But the burden of proof is on the prosecution. And the prosecution put forward nothing that they proved beyond a reasonable doubt. Their theories are no more proven that your idea that Zimmerman ran up to Martin and pistol whipped him (after putting on a white hood, I assume), or that Martin threw the first punch on the "creepy ass cracker". Reasonable doubt means the prosecution has to prove their side more than "anything could have happened".

After Casey Anthony, OJ, the first Rodney King trial, who knows what the jury will do. But barring any new info, murder2 is a joke. Manslaughter depends on what you think of Zimmerman (and how high standard you think reasonable doubt is). A civil action (wrongful death?) is a possibility with a lower standard to prove than manslaughter.

But the comments by some people here... are more embarrassing than Martin's friend's testimony was. Seriously, can you imagine if she said in court what RGIII, saden, and gary84 have said here?
This is anything but traditional because the actual aggressor and provoker here is the one claiming self defense. Also strange is the fact the one claiming self defense was the ONLY one armed. The actually person provoked never had a weapon of any kind...nothing...bat, gun, knife, etc....just skittles. Also non traditional is the fact the one claiming self defense is a larger and older adult against a smaller, kid.

Rarely you see an older, larger, armed person running up on a smaller, unarmed, child claiming self defense after he has shot and killed the teenager.
__________________
“Nobody’s going to be handed a job; not my standpoint, and I know Jay feels that way and I know Bruce feels the same way. You have to earn it. That’s what the NFL is about. Prove to me that you deserve to be on the field,’ and that’s the way it has to be in the NFL.”- McC
Chico23231 is offline  
Old 07-13-2013, 10:05 AM   #978
New HC, new hope!
 
RedskinRat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: I'm in LA, trick!
Posts: 8,700
Have you watched and of the trial coverage, Chico?
RedskinRat is offline  
Old 07-13-2013, 10:15 AM   #979
Gamebreaker
 
Chico23231's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Richmond, VA
Age: 38
Posts: 13,390
Re: Trayvon Martin Case

Quote:
Originally Posted by RedskinRat View Post
Have you watched and of the trial coverage, Chico?
very little, usually just read the blog at cnn. Work, its a bitch
__________________
“Nobody’s going to be handed a job; not my standpoint, and I know Jay feels that way and I know Bruce feels the same way. You have to earn it. That’s what the NFL is about. Prove to me that you deserve to be on the field,’ and that’s the way it has to be in the NFL.”- McC
Chico23231 is offline  
Old 07-13-2013, 11:29 AM   #980
Registered User
 
saden1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Seattle
Age: 35
Posts: 10,069
Re: Trayvon Martin Case

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chico23231 View Post
This is anything but traditional because the actual aggressor and provoker here is the one claiming self defense. Also strange is the fact the one claiming self defense was the ONLY one armed. The actually person provoked never had a weapon of any kind...nothing...bat, gun, knife, etc....just skittles. Also non traditional is the fact the one claiming self defense is a larger and older adult against a smaller, kid.

Rarely you see an older, larger, armed person running up on a smaller, unarmed, child claiming self defense after he has shot and killed the teenager.
Zimmerman's story is incredible! I literally have to suspend my common sense to believe anything Zimmerman said. Even more incredible is the incompetence and depraved malice displayed by members of the warpath.
saden1 is offline  
Old 07-13-2013, 11:32 AM   #981
New HC, new hope!
 
RedskinRat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: I'm in LA, trick!
Posts: 8,700
Quote:
Originally Posted by saden1 View Post
Zimmerman's story is incredible! I literally have to suspend my common sense to believe anything Zimmerman said. Even more incredible is the incompetence and depraved malice displayed by members of the warpath.
Saden1 uses 'common sense'!

Bwahahahahaha!
RedskinRat is offline  
Old 07-13-2013, 11:34 AM   #982
New HC, new hope!
 
RedskinRat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: I'm in LA, trick!
Posts: 8,700
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chico23231 View Post
very little, usually just read the blog at cnn. Work, its a bitch
My sympathies, Chico. I was in the same situation before I got two people to delegate all my work to.
RedskinRat is offline  
Old 07-13-2013, 11:37 AM   #983
Registered User
 
saden1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Seattle
Age: 35
Posts: 10,069
Re: Trayvon Martin Case

Quote:
Originally Posted by RedskinRat View Post
Saden1 uses 'common sense'!

Bwahahahahaha!
Put your money where your mouth is, bitch.
saden1 is offline  
Old 07-13-2013, 12:13 PM   #984
Playmaker
 
HailGreen28's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 3,084
Re: Trayvon Martin Case

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chico23231 View Post
This is anything but traditional because the actual aggressor and provoker here is the one claiming self defense.
No, if the defendant was the actual aggressor and provoker, it would be a traditional FAILED claim of self defense. I'm saying this is not the new "stand your ground" case where the burden of proof is on the defense, it's the traditional "self defence" where once the possibility of actual self defence is established, the burden is on the prosecution.

Which again raises the point, how do you know in this case which was the actual attacker and aggressor? Those in the court case would like to know what you do, because neither side had evidence to "know" that. (other than what Zimmerman said, but he's the one on trial.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chico23231 View Post
Also strange is the fact the one claiming self defense was the ONLY one armed. The actually person provoked never had a weapon of any kind...nothing...bat, gun, knife, etc....just skittles.
So if someone is armed, they can't use the weapon to defend themselves? Muggers attacking anyone weaker than they are, will be overjoyed by this news.

And again someone lists the skittles in their argument. I'm sure numerous criminals and victims have had M&Ms, Tootsie Rolls, and Pepsi on them when a crime has occurred. What is this fetish people have about skittles?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chico23231 View Post
Also non traditional is the fact the one claiming self defense is a larger and older adult against a smaller, kid.
Define "larger". Martin was taller and probably in much better shape. Unless Martin was obese.

And "kid" again? Does this look like a "kid"? Martin was 17. If he was arrested the day of the incident, for assault or whatever just saying, he would have been charged as an adult.


(teen in the middle)

Teen, yes. Young man, yes. "Kid"? No. Just to put this in perspective, do you think "kids" killed Sean Taylor? Should they not be tried as adults?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chico23231 View Post
Rarely you see an older, larger, armed person running up on a smaller, unarmed, child claiming self defense after he has shot and killed the teenager.
I'm willing to bet lots of older people have filed self defence claims against younger people even though only the older person was armed, seeing how it's teen males that commit a plurality of violent crimes. Again you're calling the shorter, more out of shape guy the "larger" guy.

And how do you know Zimmerman actually "ran up" to Martin? Please tell CNN, because the prosecution and defense both missed what you found out.

"CHILD"? Did I post pictures of a "child" up there? Again, to keep perspective in this case, did "children" kill Sean Taylor?
HailGreen28 is offline  
Old 07-13-2013, 12:19 PM   #985
Living Legend
 
skinsfaninok's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Oklahoma City (Originally from Biloxi, Ms)
Age: 28
Posts: 16,667
There is some heat in this thread! Lol
__________________
THUNDER UP

"if you're good at something, never do it for free"- The Joker

skinsfaninok is offline  
Old 07-13-2013, 12:22 PM   #986
Playmaker
 
HailGreen28's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 3,084
Re: Trayvon Martin Case

Quote:
Originally Posted by saden1 View Post
Zimmerman's story is incredible! I literally have to suspend my common sense to believe anything Zimmerman said. Even more incredible is the incompetence and depraved malice displayed by members of the warpath.
Like not understanding reasonable doubt, and being so certain that someone should be convicted because of a lack of evidence? Yes, your depravity amazes me. Your incompetence, well not surprised there since our debates on soda bans and other stuff.

edit: Not to mention the depravity on goading betting in a murder trial. Kind of macabre if you ask me.

Last edited by HailGreen28; 07-13-2013 at 12:34 PM.
HailGreen28 is offline  
Old 07-13-2013, 12:53 PM   #987
Contains football related knowledge
 
JoeRedskin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Second Star On The Right
Age: 52
Posts: 9,232
Re: Trayvon Martin Case

Quote:
Originally Posted by saden1 View Post
Zimmerman's story is incredible! I literally have to suspend my common sense to believe anything Zimmerman said. Even more incredible is the incompetence and depraved malice displayed by members of the warpath.
To any objective individual, my alternate explanation of what might have occurred that evening is no more incredible than yours where you assume malice by GZ at every instance.

The only incompetence is yours in your idiotic attempt to manipulate the law contrary to the written jury instructions so that it fits your version of events. As for depraved malice, your twisted, prejudiced mind will clearly find malice in any one who fails to accept the world according to saden1.
__________________
You aren't worth the water in my spit but, maybe, just maybe, you're worth the lead in my shotgun.

Last edited by JoeRedskin; 07-13-2013 at 01:01 PM.
JoeRedskin is offline  
Old 07-13-2013, 12:55 PM   #988
Playmaker
 
HailGreen28's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 3,084
Re: Trayvon Martin Case

Really interested in how many "kids" and how many "teens" people see in the last pic I posted. I would actually call them all "kids" as a group, but would call the two older boys in the foreground "teens" rather than "kids" by themselves. Bet it would break down by sides taken in this case.
HailGreen28 is offline  
Old 07-13-2013, 01:36 PM   #989
New HC, new hope!
 
RedskinRat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: I'm in LA, trick!
Posts: 8,700
Quote:
Originally Posted by saden1 View Post
Put your money where your mouth is, bitch.
Stay classy, saden1.
RedskinRat is offline  
Old 07-13-2013, 02:08 PM   #990
Registered User
 
saden1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Seattle
Age: 35
Posts: 10,069
Re: Trayvon Martin Case

8 hour of deliberating...not a good sign for the defense.
saden1 is offline  
Closed Thread

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:16 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2015, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site is not officially affiliated with the Washington Redskins or the NFL.
Page generated in 0.60323 seconds with 9 queries

Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.2.0 RC5

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25