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Trayvon Martin Case

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Old 03-27-2012, 08:36 AM   #91
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Re: Trayvon Martin Case

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Originally Posted by SolidSnake84 View Post
It took me a long time to read through the whole website:

Was Trayvon Martin a Drug Dealer? | a12iggymom's Blog

But I encourage everyone to. It isn't conjecture or speculation, it is all news and photo evidence pieced together. The twitter conversations and myspace photos all show a totally different guy than what the media wants you to think. Not saying that stuff should have cost him his life, but now witnesses are coming forward and all signs point to Martin being the aggressor.

I was also very saddened to hear that Martin's mother is now copyrighting slogans about Trayvon so that they can sell DVDs and CDs about the tragedy. Again this is not speculation this is a statement coming straight from the Martin family attorney. So it looks to me like they are going to try and make some money off it. Very sickening.

It is like the duke university witch hunt. More and more crap coming out by the minute...
The first thing on that page says on a conservative note, and of you read more than one sentence you can tell there is an agenda. Terrible article, by that sites judgement I would be classified as a thug since I have an arm full of tattoos and a checkered past. I'm not going to call a 17 year old kid a gang Banger because he has a few tattoos and has experimented with drugs.

The fact is the police said so not pursue, he pursued and a conflict occurred. Had he not pursued this would not be an issue. And if the stand your ground law didn't exist Zimmerman would be in jail. IMO Zimmerman is guilty of at a minimum manslaughter and should serve years in jail, but due to this terrible law he may never see a jail cell. If anything hopefully this law gets repelled in every state. From what I understand you could pick a fight with someone, start losing that fight, pull out a gun and shoot the person. Such a joke.

And as far as his family trying to copyright things to try and make money. Take a step back and think about how much money this is costing the family to pursue legal action as well as organize protests. And who's to say if she did not copyright these things that someone else might be out there making money off her sons death. She could also start a foundation with proceeds as well. I'd wait a second before I said she was trying to profit from her sons death though.
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Old 03-27-2012, 08:55 AM   #92
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Re: Trayvon Martin Case

Wonder if Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton regret jumping the gun on this like they did with the Duke rape case?
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Old 03-27-2012, 10:58 AM   #93
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Re: Trayvon Martin Case

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Originally Posted by mlmdub130 View Post
The first thing on that page says on a conservative note, and of you read more than one sentence you can tell there is an agenda. Terrible article, by that sites judgement I would be classified as a thug since I have an arm full of tattoos and a checkered past. I'm not going to call a 17 year old kid a gang Banger because he has a few tattoos and has experimented with drugs.

The fact is the police said so not pursue, he pursued and a conflict occurred. Had he not pursued this would not be an issue. And if the stand your ground law didn't exist Zimmerman would be in jail. IMO Zimmerman is guilty of at a minimum manslaughter and should serve years in jail, but due to this terrible law he may never see a jail cell. If anything hopefully this law gets repelled in every state. From what I understand you could pick a fight with someone, start losing that fight, pull out a gun and shoot the person. Such a joke.

And as far as his family trying to copyright things to try and make money. Take a step back and think about how much money this is costing the family to pursue legal action as well as organize protests. And who's to say if she did not copyright these things that someone else might be out there making money off her sons death. She could also start a foundation with proceeds as well. I'd wait a second before I said she was trying to profit from her sons death though.
First of the dispatcher told him not to pursue and they are not police. Second when he was told not to pursue he said (OK) what evidence do you have that says he kept pursuing the kid?
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Old 03-27-2012, 11:04 AM   #94
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Re: Trayvon Martin Case

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First of the dispatcher told him not to pursue and they are not police. Second when he was told not to pursue he said (OK) what evidence do you have that says he kept pursuing the kid?
When you could still hear him running and breathing heavy in the audio tape.
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Old 03-27-2012, 11:30 AM   #95
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Re: Trayvon Martin Case

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When you could still hear him running and breathing heavy in the audio tape.
So that couldn't *possibly* have been him going back to his SUV?
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Old 03-27-2012, 11:30 AM   #96
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Re: Trayvon Martin Case

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Originally Posted by mlmdub130 View Post
The fact is the police said so not pursue, he pursued and a conflict occurred. Had he not pursued this would not be an issue. And if the stand your ground law didn't exist Zimmerman would be in jail. IMO Zimmerman is guilty of at a minimum manslaughter and should serve years in jail, but due to this terrible law he may never see a jail cell. If anything hopefully this law gets repelled in every state. From what I understand you could pick a fight with someone, start losing that fight, pull out a gun and shoot the person. Such a joke.

A dispatcher, who happened to be a police officer, said "We dont need you to do that" in regards to Zimmerman indicating that he was following Martin. Thats a little different than a police officer telling Zimmerman not to pursue.

Zimmerman 911 Call Transcript – Trayvon Martin « Phoebe's Detention Room

I dont think Zimmerman had any idea that the dispatcher was a police officer. Also i think i heard FL law (maybe federal) says you dont have to adhere to anything your told over the phone from a police officer, 911 dispatcher, or anyone else. Its all advice, nothing official. Perhaps thats why the dispatcher said "we dont need you to do that" as opposed a command like "do not do that". Regardless, it seems by all accounts Zimmerman stopped following Martin at the advice of the dispatcher. Unfortunately the media usually ends the recording prematurely and makes it sounds like Zimmerman kept going after Martin.

The trouble i have in siding with Zimmerman is that he got out of his truck and followed Martin in the first place, when there was no reason to believe Martin had yet committed a crime, and more specifically a crime against Zimmerman or his family.

I was a victim of violent crime and one surprising thing i learned is that preceding separate acts cant be used against you. The example is if you see someone driving recklessly, then they leave your sights, and moments later you see that car involved in an accident, your previous account of them driving recklessly cant be used against them. The thought is you have no idea if they stopped speeding or driving recklessly immediately before the accident.

So they law may see what happened as 2 separate acts.

1) Zimmerman got out of his truck to follow Martin. At this point if he had encountered Martin and the result was the same, I fully believe Zimmerman would be guilty of manslaughter at a very minimum and deserves to spend time in jail. But he didn’t encounter Martin at this point and more importantly when told to stop he stopped. And he stopped long enough to give the dispatcher his information so that police could assist him. And according to Zimmerman he retreated to his suv.

Then:

2) Zimmerman was walking to his SUV and was confronted by Martin from behind and after they exchanged words Martin punched Zimmerman in the face breaking his noise and took him the ground and was slamming his head against the sidewalk. In the struggle and while under an reasonable impression that Martin had a gun or weaon he shot Martin in the chest.

So I think what people need to consider is; was Zimmerman acting in self defense specifically in the context of JUST the 2nd scenario. Sure I personally feel, like most of you probably do, that if not for Zimmerman getting out of his suv Martin would be alive, therefore Zimmerman was in the wrong and provoked the actions of Martin. But as wrong as Zimmerman was to get out of his car, he did stop and retreated at which point Zimmerman would be justified more so to defend himself when attacked.

* This is based off of Zimmerman’s accounts which obviously may be false. But it does match up with his injuries and the accounts of some witnesses. Im just going off of reported information. Also this is my understanding of law, which makes it completely worthless….

Something else that I think will be a legal issue is the girlfriend’s account on the phone. It gets into that whole hearsay issue. I learned that you generally (its tricky) cant reveal something someone told you. So if a witness called 911 because her husband told her to because one guy just shot another guy outside, she cant say that. There may be precedent to phone conversation, but the girlfriend may only be limited to describing what she heard but not what was said.

Also the gated community thing might complicated things further. I believe it becomes a little fuzzy about what is/isn’t considered his homestead. That combined with the knowledge he likely picked up as a neighborhood watchman of who does/doesn’t live within the restricted community and their common visitors may give him more rights in approaching a visitor of the neighborhood.
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Old 03-27-2012, 12:02 PM   #97
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Re: Trayvon Martin Case

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If This was black on black crime would it be national news worthy? This is what bothers me about the situation, I'm not on any side of This case, I do think Martin had to have said something or done something to get shot but he probably shouldn't have been followed anyway.. but my point is if a black man shot and killed let's say a white or hespanic man I just don't see it big news like this.. hell young black males are murdered almost every day in new Orleans but this so happened to be a "racial " issue and here we go again. 2012 and our country still is ridiculous when it comes to race.
Totally agree. Idiots like Sharpton and Jackson swooping in and claiming things like "blacks are being hunted" before the facts even start to surface... Zimmerman and his wife mentored some black kids for free from what I read... really stinks of being a racist, huh?

Anyone else find it ironic that by playing the race card too quickly that it actually creates more racial division?

This whole case is a tragedy, but I don't think it's nearly as racially motivated as a lot of other poeple.
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Old 03-27-2012, 12:05 PM   #98
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Re: Trayvon Martin Case

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Also the gated community thing might complicated things further. I believe it becomes a little fuzzy about what is/isn’t considered his homestead.
This is a critical point, IMO. Why was the kid even in there if he wasn't a residence and what's the rate of occurrence for kids hopping the fence and causing issues?

This isn't the case we were presented with initially and further underlines why we need to do due diligence and leave the burning brands and pitchforks for later.
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Old 03-27-2012, 12:09 PM   #99
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Re: Trayvon Martin Case

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Anyone else find it ironic that by playing the race card too quickly that it actually creates more racial division?
I don't think it's ironic, I think it's a deliberate gambit TO create more leverage. Disgusting and cynical way to behave.

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Old 03-27-2012, 12:18 PM   #100
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Re: Trayvon Martin Case

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This is a critical point, IMO. Why was the kid even in there if he wasn't a residence and what's the rate of occurrence for kids hopping the fence and causing issues?

This isn't the case we were presented with initially and further underlines why we need to do due diligence and leave the burning brands and pitchforks for later.

Well he was a invited guest of a family relative resident. Also something else with regards to the race baiting, apparently this community isnt predominately white. A lot media personalities have described it as a "white gated community". I doubt you can get statistics but it was apparently a very multi-racial residence, perhaps with less whites than reflective in the overall community.

Also i had never heard the term "white Hispanic" prior to this. On government forms and stuff i had seen "non-white Hispanic", but never just white Hispanic. Why is that important to include in the description of the shooter? Interestingly there are black Hispanics as well. Juan Williams is considered so.
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Old 03-27-2012, 12:25 PM   #101
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Re: Trayvon Martin Case

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Well he was a invited guest of a family relative resident.
That sounds like a really poorly thought through, knee-jerk explanation from a family resident given that he was on his way back from the 7-Eleven or wherever with Skittles and Iced tea. Regardless, I wouldn't just shoot someone for walking on my property so it's clear there was more to the whole situation.

I can imagine that it's something he's done a bunch of times before without incidence. I'm sure we've all cut through a property or business or something to save 5 minutes.
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Old 03-27-2012, 12:57 PM   #102
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Re: Trayvon Martin Case

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That sounds like a really poorly thought through, knee-jerk explanation from a family resident given that he was on his way back from the 7-Eleven or wherever with Skittles and Iced tea. Regardless, I wouldn't just shoot someone for walking on my property so it's clear there was more to the whole situation.

I can imagine that it's something he's done a bunch of times before without incidence. I'm sure we've all cut through a property or business or something to save 5 minutes.
Its a bit off topic, but isn't there a state where you're allowed to do that?
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Old 03-27-2012, 12:58 PM   #103
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Re: Trayvon Martin Case

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Its a bit off topic, but isn't there a state where you're allowed to do that?
I would hope not....
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Old 03-27-2012, 01:31 PM   #104
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Re: Trayvon Martin Case

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Old 03-27-2012, 01:50 PM   #105
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Re: Trayvon Martin Case

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