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Trayvon Martin Case

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Old 07-13-2013, 11:59 PM   #1096
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Re: Trayvon Martin Case

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All of you burn in hell.
What's that now?
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Old 07-14-2013, 12:12 AM   #1097
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Re: Trayvon Martin Case

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Originally Posted by RGIII View Post
Just because it's legal, it doesn't mean it's right. If you're gonna be a bitch, don't be a play cop. If you're gonna be a bitch, stay your bitch ass in the car. If you're gonna be a bitch, take a beat down from a kid almost half your age without pulling a gun.
Almost sounds like he wasn't gonna be a bitch by your logic?
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Old 07-14-2013, 12:29 AM   #1098
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Re: Trayvon Martin Case

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Originally Posted by JoeRedskin View Post
What do you mean "this outcome"? If the only fact you change is that T shoots Z, you still have much of the speculative issues presented. T claims he was in fear of his life but testimony places him on top of Z in "ground and pound" mode with Z yelling for help. Next thing we know, Z is dead. (assume also the other witnesses come out and say they see TM get off the ground with a prone Z next to him).

I think the case against TM would be stronger especially since his body showed no evidence of injury. But, essentially, and assuming TM asserts self-defense, you would have much the same issues - speculation as to who started the fight and what happened during it. Certainly, the underlying principles - burden of proof, legal elements of the crime charged and innocent until proven guilty would be applicable to TM just as they now apply to Z.

And to be clear - "a confrontation initiated by Z" is a generalization that encompasses both legal and illegal acts in this situation. Z can initiate a verbal confrontation. TM can initiate a verbal confrontation. NEITHER can initiate a physical confrontation.

People can yell at you and aggressively taunt you in public. They can call you dirty names. They can call you the N word. They can call you a crazy cracker. They can insult your parents, sister and kids. They can make general threats of harm so long as they do so from a position where they can't reasonably be expected to carry out the threat (Shouting "I'm gonna kick your ass" from 10 feet away). They can stay at more than arms length and "flinch" as if to strike you. ...

You know what you (be you a teen, child or adult) can do in these situations? Yell back, call the cops or simply ignore it. [If they make a threat and then move to carry it out - that's different e.g. saying they are going to kick your ass and then charging you. While you would still have a duty to retreat (in MD) - you only need do so if you believe you can reasonably get to a safe place]



Those "technical details" are, again, what I like to refer to as "law" and "burden of proof".

Z, through his actions, initiated the "situation" of a verbal confrontation - there is no evidence as to who started the "situation" of a physical confrontation. Leading up to the physical confontation, Z - IMHO - clearly exercised bad judgment. Bad judgment, however, is not a crime. Initiating a physical attack is - and that "situation" may have been "started" by Z or TM.

Before sending Z to jail, the State bears the burden of proof and persuasion to show BEYOND A REASONABLE DOUBT that Z committed all the elements of the crime for which he is accused.



Who has alleged he has authority to harass anyone?? True, much as you don't like it, Z was legally authorized to carry a concealed weapon in public spaces. Assuming Z was harassing folks, however, if that harrasment was limited to following people and verbally confronting them, the appropriate response is to CALL THE F'ING POLICE. YOU DO NOT get to take matters into your own hands.

DAMN - why is this such a hard concept for folks to comprehend. Had TM said to his friend, "I'll call you back, I gotta call the police some crazy cracker is followng me." Maybe, just maybe, it would have been straightened out quickly. Instead, we get macho wannabe crime stopper versus macho wannabe teen and a tragic outcome with nothing but speculation on the key elements of legal responsibilty.

I gotta say, the willingness and ease with which some of you think violence is a proper response to being challenged, "harrased" or otherwise inconvenienced is disconcerting. Why does violence exist? B/c people still fundamentally believe it is the right way to resolve personal problems.



Well, screw the trial then - the line for pitchforks and torches starts behind G84C.
http://www.thewarpath.net/debating-w...ml#post1014278 (Trayvon Martin Case)

The most valuable thing said in this thread, at least imho.
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Old 07-14-2013, 12:43 AM   #1099
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Re: Trayvon Martin Case

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Originally Posted by mlmpetert View Post
http://www.thewarpath.net/debating-w...ml#post1014278 (Trayvon Martin Case)

The most valuable thing said in this thread, at least imho.
Truth.

The case came down to this...

The prosecution had to prove GZ initiated the physical altercation. Not only did they not do this thy didnt even come close. The gap between what happened when GZ got out of the car and a dead body laying on the ground was wide. The only people who know were either dead or on trial for their life. Neither side made a truly convincing argument as to what happened. People can THINK they know what GZ did and what his state of mind was but they're only presuming on that point because there wasn't much evidence of that either. I think a trigger happy zilch got confronted, someone made a shove (probably even minor), the shove was reciprocated and all hell broke loose. Who did the initiating matters legally...and none of us know.
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Old 07-14-2013, 12:46 AM   #1100
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I think the white on black stuff is stupid, first of all Zimmerman is Hispanic and has claimed it .
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Old 07-14-2013, 07:43 AM   #1101
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Re: Trayvon Martin Case

Anyway, he got away with murder. I Imagine if he had shot a dog or himself he would be in jail. I reason their should be some murder convictions appealed due to this ruling. The civil litigation is gonna be a beast. I would hate to be in that Home Owners Association, they are about to kick out some millions in the upcoming wrongful death suit. Besides, the fact Zimmerman was acting as a neighborhood watch may put him reach of the Feds. If so, he still might face penalties.
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Old 07-14-2013, 07:45 AM   #1102
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Re: Trayvon Martin Case

Where's the riot? Out of touch with reality, out of touch with America. Can we say "live in a anti-Obama bubble"?
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Old 07-14-2013, 08:00 AM   #1103
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Re: Trayvon Martin Case

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Originally Posted by RGIII View Post
Hispanics "claim" themselves to be white when it's convenient. He's biracial, his dad is white. Zimmerman isn't a Hispanic name. Many biracial people flip-flop on their race as convenient. Check with your human resources manager.
Well the jury was alls white except one. They found 6. Not hard to find.
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Old 07-14-2013, 08:04 AM   #1104
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Re: Trayvon Martin Case

what will happen to George Zimmerman now?

The NAACP says they are going to appeal the ruling, and also introduce measures to remove the stand your ground law from every state.

Does that constitute double jeopardy? Can they try him again for maybe a lesser crime??
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Old 07-14-2013, 08:06 AM   #1105
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Re: Trayvon Martin Case

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Originally Posted by SolidSnake84 View Post
what will happen to George Zimmerman now?

The NAACP says they are going to appeal the ruling, and also introduce measures to remove the stand your ground law from every state.

Does that constitute double jeopardy? Can they try him again for maybe a lesser crime??
Federal crimes realated to being a "safety officer", wrongful death suits, etc. He was aquitted of murder and manslaughter, but he killed an unarmed person.
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Old 07-14-2013, 08:20 AM   #1106
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Re: Trayvon Martin Case

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary84Clark View Post
Anyway, he got away with murder. I Imagine if he had shot a dog or himself he would be in jail. I reason their should be some murder convictions appealed due to this ruling. The civil litigation is gonna be a beast. I would hate to be in that Home Owners Association, they are about to kick out some millions in the upcoming wrongful death suit. Besides, the fact Zimmerman was acting as a neighborhood watch may put him reach of the Feds. If so, he still might face penalties.
The HO Assoc. has already settled for an undisclosed amount thought to be in excess of $1M.

Trayvon Martin Family Settles with Homeowners Assn. For Over $1M - Atlanta Black Star

Quote:
Robert Taylor, founding partner of Taylor & Carls P.A., a law firm that represents homeowner associations but has no connection to the Retreat at Twin Lakes, told the Orlando Sentinel that the settlement did not mean the association admitted any wrongdoing or liability. Taylor said the decision to settle was most likely a business decision.

Its really nothing more than a risk-versus-reward analysis, Taylor said.

...

It is understood and agreed that the payment made herein is not to be construed as an admission of any liability by or on behalf of the releasing parties; but instead the monies being paid hereunder is consideration for avoiding litigation, the uncertainties stemming from litigation as well as to protect and secure the good name and good will of the released parties, said the language in the settlement.
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Old 07-14-2013, 08:21 AM   #1107
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Re: Trayvon Martin Case

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Originally Posted by RGIII View Post
Hispanics "claim" themselves to be white when it's convenient. He's biracial, his dad is white. Zimmerman isn't a Hispanic name. Many biracial people flip-flop on their race as convenient. Check with your human resources manager.
No racial profiling there.

If you ever want to be sure of finding a bigot in the room, just find a mirror.
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Last edited by JoeRedskin; 07-14-2013 at 08:52 AM.
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Old 07-14-2013, 09:23 AM   #1108
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Re: Trayvon Martin Case

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Originally Posted by 724Skinsfan View Post
Let's just convict on reasonable assumption, not acquit through reasonable doubt. Problem solved.
The most clear and concise statement of the case against Zimmerman.
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Old 07-14-2013, 09:35 AM   #1109
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Re: Trayvon Martin Case

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Originally Posted by JoeRedskin View Post
No racial profiling there.

If you ever want to be sure of finding a bigot in the room, just find a mirror.


Joe, PM me your paypal info so that I can send you enough to buy a six pack of your choice. You deserve it with the legal knowledge and verbal beat down you've bestowed upon people in this thread.
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Old 07-14-2013, 09:56 AM   #1110
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Re: Trayvon Martin Case

Thanks for the offer NC Skns. No need. Saden1, I am not collecting on the bet.

While I am convinced the verdict was legally and ethically correct, it does not change the underlying fact that an avoidable tragedy occurred. Rather than gloating or raging over the verdict, let's move forward - black, white, Hispanic, green with purple polka dots - and try to increase awareness and understanding so that our differences can become our strengths not our weaknesses.

<cue unicorns>
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