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2012 Presidential Election (free for all edition)

Debating with the enemy


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Old 08-02-2012, 08:18 PM   #286
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Re: 2012 Presidential Election (free for all edition)

Who is fighting for the middle class? President Obama versus Mitt Romney. — Barack Obama


Needs to be seen.....
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Old 08-02-2012, 09:48 PM   #287
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Re: 2012 Presidential Election (free for all edition)

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Originally Posted by saden1 View Post
A movie based on suppositions doesn't make for a quality movie. It looks like dog shit but if they can get people to go watch it and make some change then it was worth is. In any case, is there any particular liberal movie you would like to compare this to?


As for people turning, well, people don't turn conservative...plus these conservative and liberal labels don't mean much these days because there are so many facets to individuals. African American's by and large consider themselves conservative but they are no conservative in voting sense.
I couldnt agree with you any more on your first 2 sentences.

Honestly i havent really seen any explicitly liberal movie/documentaries. Ive never seen a Moore flick, i never saw Al Gore's polar bear film. Ive saw Lose Change, but i dont know if id classify that as explicitly liberal or a documentary, rather just a conspiracy theory movie. It scared me though how easy it is to put something together thats captivating, persuasive and logical, yet sooooo factually flawed and misleading. Do you have any suggestions for me?

Im not sure what youre trying to say. Like people dont change? Can people not turn liberal either?

I actually put together a long winded response to your post yesterday, but decided not to post it.... too many digressions too many thoughts. In general i was thinking about how polarized it seems our country has become. I completely agree that conservative and liberal, left and right, totally lame and completely whack, no longer fit the population in general. All are regularly being used misleadingly and in different ways to change the traditional connotations.
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Old 08-02-2012, 10:15 PM   #288
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Re: 2012 Presidential Election (free for all edition)

This is what we have become. I say you are a tax cheat, so it must be so. I say you are not an American citizen so it must be so. Mean while congress isnt doing shit and we are fighting over bullshit.

Vote for neither. Vote for independents. Find candidates that are not bought and paid for.
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Old 08-03-2012, 08:16 AM   #289
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Re: 2012 Presidential Election (free for all edition)

Buddy Roemer was never given a chance to even debate. Gary Johnson was allowed to attend one debate. They were not crazy enough to be selected for the Republican Party sideshow that went on this year.

It seems Gary Johnson is now on the Libertarian Party ticket, and if he could poll above 15% he can attend the debates. He will move the discussion away from the BS talking points, and I for one would love to see that.
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Old 08-03-2012, 12:47 PM   #290
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Re: 2012 Presidential Election (free for all edition)

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It seems Gary Johnson is now on the Libertarian Party ticket, and if he could poll above 15% he can attend the debates. He will move the discussion away from the BS talking points, and I for one would love to see that.
This. So much this. Regardless of where Gary Johnson stands, or how he would split votes, we need campaigns with more than two candidates. Mudlslinging seems to work when it's just one candidate and an opponent. I think candidates would be less likely to do that, and talking real issues instead, when there's a third candidate that would only be helped by their opponents sniping each other.
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Old 08-03-2012, 01:23 PM   #291
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Re: 2012 Presidential Election (free for all edition)

First this:
The Obama event registry — Blog — Barack Obama


Then this:
President Obama Donates - YouTube


Now this:
Obama birthday card | TheBlaze.com


At what point does it become just good old fashion pandering?
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Old 08-06-2012, 12:33 PM   #292
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Re: 2012 Presidential Election (free for all edition)

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Originally Posted by mlmpetert View Post
First this:
The Obama event registry — Blog — Barack Obama


Then this:
President Obama Donates - YouTube


Now this:
Obama birthday card | TheBlaze.com


At what point does it become just good old fashion pandering?
I'd much rather him pander than have three billionaires (Shelly Adelson, Foster Friess, Koch brothers) bankroll his campaign and dictate policy.

If a guy cuts a $10 million check to your campaign, the next logical question is what does he want in return.
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Old 08-06-2012, 12:37 PM   #293
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Re: 2012 Presidential Election (free for all edition)

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So we should read Rick Ungar article as biased but the Heritage article as unbiased? LOL
All that stupid Heritage article shows is government spending increasing. When has it not year over year? You think as a percentage snapshots from 1960s to 2000 would think it would compare favorably to 2010 to 2050?


There is a simple way to prove you and the Heritage Foundation are full of it with a simple question: Can you account account for the 5 trillion dollars and show us the math?


The really sad thing is you don't even need to exaggerate deficit spending, his numbers scary enough on their own.
It's like how many different ways can we have this argument with the right, this administration has not signed into law or even proposed $5 trillion in spending. I guess because Heritage said it that makes it true though.
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Old 08-06-2012, 01:22 PM   #294
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Re: 2012 Presidential Election (free for all edition)

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[/B]

And unions don't do the same thing?
What union is bankrolling Obama's campaign to the tune of a billion dollars or even hundreds of thousands?

For what it's worth, every union isn't all warm and fuzzy with Obama. Don't know where you got that from.
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Old 08-06-2012, 02:49 PM   #295
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Re: 2012 Presidential Election (free for all edition)

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What union is bankrolling Obama's campaign to the tune of a billion dollars or even hundreds of thousands?

For what it's worth, every union isn't all warm and fuzzy with Obama. Don't know where you got that from.
In 2004 UAW contributed $ 4.1M to Obama. In 2000-2008, UAW contributed over $ 23M to Dems, $ 193K to the GOP.

So for a $ 23M investment they got back $ 23BILLION.....1000 times ROI, pretty damn good.....just one example.

The bundlers at Solyndra and other green energy companies that made off with taxpayer backed loans only donated in the hundreds of thousands, yet got millions....another great play.
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Old 08-06-2012, 03:30 PM   #296
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Re: 2012 Presidential Election (free for all edition)

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Originally Posted by 12thMan View Post
What union is bankrolling Obama's campaign to the tune of a billion dollars or even hundreds of thousands?

For what it's worth, every union isn't all warm and fuzzy with Obama. Don't know where you got that from.

I think your mean a million dollars. Sadly i wonder how long it is until we see a campaign that costs a billion? This year or 2016?

I thought this was kind of funny. We all remember Obama hooking his biggest bundlers up with jobs:

Report: Nearly 80% of Obama’s Top Bundlers Given “Key Administration Posts” - ABC News


Well by doing so it has complicated, and probably limited, the amount of money he can raise this go around. They cant campaign for him the way they did now that theyre part of the administration.

What Obama's Richest Donors Tell Us About His Campaign - Politics - The Atlantic Wire
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Old 08-06-2012, 03:48 PM   #297
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Re: 2012 Presidential Election (free for all edition)

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It's like how many different ways can we have this argument with the right, this administration has not signed into law or even proposed $5 trillion in spending. I guess because Heritage said it that makes it true though.
Bush and Congress left FY2009 (except DoD & DHS) under CR until after the election. Obama signed the FY2009 spending bills in March 2009. The Obama Administration and Dems in Congress had complete control until after the mid-terms, they've neglected to do anything about the fundamental problems in the budget.

This falls squarely on Obama, if he was serious about what's best for the country and not being an idealogue, he had the bully-pulpit, could've driven true "change" in DC, and gone down as one of the greatest POTUS. Instead he chose to govern from the far left and that hasn't worked out so well.

I'm not a Clinton fan, but the guy was a master politican and knew there were times to track to the center for the good of the country (or his party's re-election chances, either way it worked out).

Here's some details from WaPo: Is Obama responsible for a $5 trillion increase in the debt? - The Washington Post

Key takeaways from the link and a sublink:
- “While it’s true that revenue has decreased by a small amount, spending has soared — and it’s the role of a president to set a budget that ensures that spending stays in line with available revenue,” Fehrnstrom said. “President Obama has both increased non-defense discretionary spending and failed to propose any serious reforms to entitlement spending.” He noted that non-defense discretionary spending — annually appropriated by Congress — has increased significantly under Obama.

- The nation has a revenue problem and a spending problem — or else there would not be a deficit.

Just a couple other quick hits:
Why did Obama ignore his own Debt Commission?
WARREN BUFFETT: “Well it – you go back to what, you know, Kemp-Roth and all that that too that they were working on that. I think what happened with Simpson-Bowles was an absolute tragedy. I mean here are two extremely high-grade people. They have somewhat different ideas about government but they’re smart. They’re decent. They’ve got good senses of humor, too. They’re good at working with people.
They work like a devil for ten months or something like that. They compromise. They bring in people as far apart as Durbin and Coburn to get them to sign on and then they’re totally ignored. I think that’s a travesty.” (CNBC’s “Squawk Box,” 11/12/11)

Thoughts from Mark Warner: Senator Mark Warner talks debt reduction and Rep. Ryan plan – CNN Press Room - CNN.com Blogs
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Old 08-06-2012, 06:51 PM   #298
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Re: 2012 Presidential Election (free for all edition)

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Originally Posted by Slingin Sammy 33 View Post
Bush and Congress left FY2009 (except DoD & DHS) under CR until after the election. Obama signed the FY2009 spending bills in March 2009. The Obama Administration and Dems in Congress had complete control until after the mid-terms, they've neglected to do anything about the fundamental problems in the budget.

This falls squarely on Obama, if he was serious about what's best for the country and not being an idealogue, he had the bully-pulpit, could've driven true "change" in DC, and gone down as one of the greatest POTUS. Instead he chose to govern from the far left and that hasn't worked out so well.

I'm not a Clinton fan, but the guy was a master politican and knew there were times to track to the center for the good of the country (or his party's re-election chances, either way it worked out).

Here's some details from WaPo: Is Obama responsible for a $5 trillion increase in the debt? - The Washington Post

Key takeaways from the link and a sublink:
- “While it’s true that revenue has decreased by a small amount, spending has soared — and it’s the role of a president to set a budget that ensures that spending stays in line with available revenue,” Fehrnstrom said. “President Obama has both increased non-defense discretionary spending and failed to propose any serious reforms to entitlement spending.” He noted that non-defense discretionary spending — annually appropriated by Congress — has increased significantly under Obama.

- The nation has a revenue problem and a spending problem — or else there would not be a deficit.

Just a couple other quick hits:
Why did Obama ignore his own Debt Commission?
WARREN BUFFETT: “Well it – you go back to what, you know, Kemp-Roth and all that that too that they were working on that. I think what happened with Simpson-Bowles was an absolute tragedy. I mean here are two extremely high-grade people. They have somewhat different ideas about government but they’re smart. They’re decent. They’ve got good senses of humor, too. They’re good at working with people.
They work like a devil for ten months or something like that. They compromise. They bring in people as far apart as Durbin and Coburn to get them to sign on and then they’re totally ignored. I think that’s a travesty.” (CNBC’s “Squawk Box,” 11/12/11)

Thoughts from Mark Warner: Senator Mark Warner talks debt reduction and Rep. Ryan plan – CNN Press Room - CNN.com Blogs

I would have thought the takeaway from the article was the fact that it got a Pinocchio, a rating described as:

Quote:
Some shading of the facts. Selective telling of the truth. Some omissions and exaggerations, but no outright falsehoods.
Next time shoot for "The Geppetto Checkmark," it's likely to prove you lot aren't full of it.

Also, Bush submitted the 2009 budget in 2008. What was obama suppose to do? Not sign it and start from scratch? LOL...signing the budget is a formality.

Last edited by saden1; 08-06-2012 at 06:56 PM.
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Old 08-06-2012, 07:58 PM   #299
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Re: 2012 Presidential Election (free for all edition)

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Originally Posted by Slingin Sammy 33 View Post
In 2004 UAW contributed $ 4.1M to Obama. In 2000-2008, UAW contributed over $ 23M to Dems, $ 193K to the GOP.

So for a $ 23M investment they got back $ 23BILLION.....1000 times ROI, pretty damn good.....just one example.

The bundlers at Solyndra and other green energy companies that made off with taxpayer backed loans only donated in the hundreds of thousands, yet got millions....another great play.
What about Wall Street ,you hammer Unions and forget about the uber weathly CEO's who took down Wall St in the first place ...UNDER BUSH's ...reign of terror.Lets not forget the Auto Industry is paying it back.

Government Bailout of Ford GM Chrysler and the Auto Industry


Very good break down of the whole thing!
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Old 08-06-2012, 08:04 PM   #300
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Re: 2012 Presidential Election (free for all edition)

This is what Mittins brings to the table......



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