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2012 Presidential Election (free for all edition)

Debating with the enemy


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Old 08-15-2012, 04:32 PM   #466
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Re: 2012 Presidential Election (free for all edition)

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Originally Posted by saden1 View Post
The biggest supporters of small business loans are Republicans...hell, they created the small business administration and it certainly can't be said that it's unhelpful. Goofballs like firstdown think money they get from the bank is actually due to their good credit when in fact it's the government basically giving these banks loan guarantees so they can lend. To top it off, people like him go full retarded and forget that the recent economic downturn basically froze the credit market and the government came in and saved the day.
I don't know how FD financed his business when he started, but when I had the pizza shop all the financing I used was private, SBA loan paperwork was a f-ing nightmare. I get the FDIC program and SBA loan programs, but again they're paid for by taxes all of us pay. I would argue that a successful small business owner pays more in taxes than most and if the choice was to slightly scale back gov't programs to keep taxes level or reduce them I'm sure 99% of small business owners would be in favo of that approach.

And as I've mentioned before, the current economic downturn was primarily sparked by long-term gov't interference in the mortage loan markets. Was the bank bailout necessary to stave off a financial meltdown....most likely.
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Old 08-15-2012, 04:37 PM   #467
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Re: 2012 Presidential Election (free for all edition)

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....
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You Olympians, however, know you didn’t get here solely on your own power. For most of you, loving parents, sisters or brothers, encouraged your hopes, coaches guided, communities built venues in order to organize competitions. All Olympians stand on the shoulders of those who lifted them. We’ve already cheered the Olympians, let’s also cheer the parents, coaches, and communities. All right! [pumps fist].
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If you were successful, somebody along the line gave you some help. There was a great teacher somewhere in your life. Somebody helped to create this unbelievable American system that we have that allowed you to thrive. Somebody invested in roads and bridges. If you’ve got a business — you didn’t build that [on your own]. Somebody else made that happen. The Internet didn’t get invented on its own. Government research created the Internet so that all the companies could make money off the Internet. The point is, is that when we succeed, we succeed because of our individual initiative, but also because we do things together.
I think the context of Obama's speech and previous speeches allude to exactly what he is saying. It's very self-evident what he was saying but perhaps there is a reading comprehension issue at play here? Or is it partisan hackery?


You gleaned over and avoided the issue of whether facilities that communities build constitute government helping individuals succeed as Romney stipulated. Perhaps you should be concerned more about what your candidate believes and did in creating Romneycare than parse what Obama has to say.



At their core these two speeches have exactly same message:
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Old 08-16-2012, 04:15 AM   #468
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Re: 2012 Presidential Election (free for all edition)

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No my good credit got my loan.

So ,the bank ,taking a chance on you is not someone ......helping you?Had you not gotten the loan,what would have happen?
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Old 08-16-2012, 07:12 AM   #469
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Re: 2012 Presidential Election (free for all edition)

This can happen at the Federal level as well, just need to put adults in charge. A Balanced Budget amendment (49 states have it) and entitlement reform wouldn't hurt either.

McDonnell announces $448.5 million budget surplus | HamptonRoads.com | PilotOnline.com
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Old 08-16-2012, 09:39 AM   #470
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Re: 2012 Presidential Election (free for all edition)

And the ironic thing is a tax increase would do almost nothing to help reduce the deficit.

Review & Outlook: The Obama Rule - WSJ.com
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The Obama Treasury's own numbers confirm that the tax would raise at most $5 billion a year—or less than 0.5% of the $1.2 trillion fiscal 2012 budget deficit and over the next decade a mere 0.1% of the $45.43 trillion the federal government will spend. When asked about those revenue projections, White House aide Jason Furman backpedaled from Mr. Obama's rationale by explaining that the tax was never intended "to bring the deficit down and the debt under control."

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The Buffett rule is really nothing more than a sneaky way for Mr. Obama to justify doubling the capital gains and dividend tax rate to 30% from 15% today. That's the real spread-the-wealth target. The problem is that this is a tax on capital that is needed for firms to grow and hire more workers. Mr. Obama says he wants an investment-led recovery, not one led by consumption, but how will investment be spurred by doubling the tax on it?

The only investment and hiring the Buffett rule is likely to spur will be outside the United States—in China, Germany, India, and other competitors with much more investment-friendly tax regimes. The Buffett rule would give the U.S. the fourth highest capital gains rate among OECD nations, according to a new study by Ernst & Young, to go along with what is now the highest corporate tax rate (a little under 40% for the combined federal and average state rate). That's what happens when politicians pursue fairness over growth.
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Old 08-16-2012, 11:30 AM   #471
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Re: 2012 Presidential Election (free for all edition)

ROFL. This was almost as good as the BushJr blunders. Wow, this guy is something else. *grabs popcorn*




I particulary loved the part at the beginning where this reporter calls him out on lobbyist running his campaign and Mitty gets mad as hell. LOL

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Old 08-16-2012, 12:50 PM   #472
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Re: 2012 Presidential Election (free for all edition)

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ROFL. This was almost as good as the BushJr blunders. Wow, this guy is something else. *grabs popcorn*




I particulary loved the part at the beginning where this reporter calls him out on lobbyist running his campaign and Mitty gets mad as hell. LOL


It's which side is conservative. Is it the flip side or the flop?
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Old 08-16-2012, 12:56 PM   #473
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Re: 2012 Presidential Election (free for all edition)

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Funny you go back to 1994 on Romney and you seem to give Obama a pass on his promise on these things just 3 yrs back.
Have you seen me supporting Obama? Just because I'm killing Romney doesn't mean I'm voting or support Obama. In fact, you've seen my posts in regards to his faults but you chose to ignore it.


Unlike some of you guys, I plan on following through with my ideology on who to vote for. Many of you (and the rest of the US) are going to vote for one of these two jerkoffs because you don't want the other guy to win. If you would like a picture of my vote come election day, I will present it.

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Last edited by NC_Skins; 08-16-2012 at 01:17 PM.
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Old 08-16-2012, 03:14 PM   #474
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Re: 2012 Presidential Election (free for all edition)

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The reason we laugh at what Obama says is that he thinks Gov. is the answer to everyones problems. He has a pattern of this thinking so when he says those things it just in line whith his thinking that gov. knows best. We know what he said and that statement alone is no big deal but if you look over his history for every problem he has a gov. solution.
This is funny, not because you said it but because I've probably heard...mmm..over a hundred Obama speeches and he's said over and over...and over again that he doe not think government is the answer to all of our problems. Happen to catch him online just yesterday and said those exact words. In fact, I'm willing to bet he'll make that point yet again during his big convention speech next month.

I get it though, it's something conservatives have to say to sharpen differences with liberals. But as it's been pointed out, President Obama is the smallest gov't spender since Dwight Eisenhower. Now, that's a fact. So no, Obama's not in love with federal spending and he doesn't think government is the answer to everything.
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Old 08-16-2012, 03:26 PM   #475
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Re: 2012 Presidential Election (free for all edition)

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But as it's been pointed out, President Obama is the smallest gov't spender since Dwight Eisenhower.
Just for clarification, it's the smallest percentage of increased spending since Eisenhower. He's a between 1-2% increase spending which is low. The problem is here, that the dummy before him jacked spending through the roof which makes the overall numbers huge.
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Old 08-16-2012, 03:29 PM   #476
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Re: 2012 Presidential Election (free for all edition)

Fair point and a distinction I didn't bother to make again, because it's been pointed out here before. The simply reality is Obama's not the boogeyman big gov't spender the right makes him out to be. Even if you consider the stimulus, 40% of were tax cuts. So again, it's a big fail when the drag that into the argument.
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Old 08-16-2012, 08:10 PM   #477
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Re: 2012 Presidential Election (free for all edition)

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Fair point and a distinction I didn't bother to make again, because it's been pointed out here before.

Yeah, it's been pointed out many times by you and me, but the same crew keeps claiming the wrong stat in regards to that particular fact. Seems that "lowest percentage of increased spending" is obviously the same as "total overall spending".



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Old 08-16-2012, 08:55 PM   #478
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Re: 2012 Presidential Election (free for all edition)

Obama may be the best Republican president in my lifetime.
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Old 08-16-2012, 09:05 PM   #479
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Re: 2012 Presidential Election (free for all edition)

So does anyone think Obama will dump Biden and make Hillary his running mate? I think if that happens Obama is a lock to win. Ironically if I could go back to 2008 as far as the Primaries and pick anyone from both parties to be President I probably would have gone with Hillary.

I mean I don't think Obama getting reelected will be anywhere close to the doomsday scenario Republicans will have you believe will take place but at the same time I feel like Romney has more potential to get the economy going again. Also my main beef with Obama is he's basically embraced the whole Occupy Wall Street movement and engaged in some warped form of class warfare, which is disappointing because he started out as a moderate.

Either way I hope Hillary runs in 2016 just so we can have more options should the economy stay stuck in it's current bout of limbo.
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Old 08-16-2012, 09:19 PM   #480
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Re: 2012 Presidential Election (free for all edition)

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So does anyone think Obama will dump Biden and make Hillary his running mate? I think if that happens Obama is a lock to win which is kind of ironic.

He should, but he's not.


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I mean I don't think Obama getting reelected will be anywhere close to the doomsday scenario Republicans will have you believe will take place but at the same time I feel like Romney has more potential to get the economy going again. Also my main beef with Obama is he's basically embraced the whole Occupy Wall Street movement and engaged in some warped form of class warfare, which is disappointing because he started out as a moderate.

The President has about as much influence on the economy as he does the weather. There are several key factors here. The global economy is one of those factors, and it affects ours just as ours affects theirs. The second factor is Congress. This is by far the most important as they dictate policy. Only THEY can implement a Presidents plan. Now, lets look back and see how the Republicans have stonewalled Obama his entire tenure unless it was somehow benefiting them.Congress has turned into a dog and pony show. Guess what? If Romney gets elected, what do you think the Dem controlled Senate is going to do after 4 years of the Republicans doing it? They are going to absolutely shit on any and all legislation so they can point the finger at him at the end of his term and say "Our candidate is better."
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