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Gun Control Thread- Should we?

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Old 12-18-2012, 11:04 AM   #196
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Re: Gun Control Thread- Should we?

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Maybe we need to intimidate the kids. We sure didn't have students punching or hitting teachers like you here about today. Teachers had the respect of the students and from what I hear from many high school teachers its not that way in todays world.
Yea we did.
In 1975 two of my classmates stuffed our math teacher out a 1st story classroom window.
There were also two different fist fights with our school dean.
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Old 12-18-2012, 11:31 AM   #197
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Re: Gun Control Thread- Should we?

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How about the everyday video game violence? These kids sit in front of a TV playing these games everyday and somehow they have no affect on kids?

Who here denies we have a millions of kids eveyday watching and playing very violent video games?
Right...my point that I am making rather inelegantly is that the problem is clearly very complicated and multi-factored...but guns are absolutely part of the problem. Or more accurately the fact that we own so many guns in this country is an indicator of a deeper problem that is caused by many different things. But the pro-gun crowd seems to want to ignore the "fact" that we own TOO MANY guns in this country. Perhaps gun control isn't the answer to effectively reducing them but we do need to reduce them.
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Old 12-18-2012, 11:39 AM   #198
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Re: Gun Control Thread- Should we?

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Originally Posted by firstdown View Post
How about the everyday video game violence? These kids sit in front of a TV playing these games everyday and somehow they have no affect on kids?

Who here denies we have a millions of kids eveyday watching and playing very violent video games?
That goes back to a parenting issue.

And I'm not a big believer that violent video games create violent people. Gotta look a little deeper than that.
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Old 12-18-2012, 11:44 AM   #199
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Re: Gun Control Thread- Should we?

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Right...my point that I am making rather inelegantly is that the problem is clearly very complicated and multi-factored...but guns are absolutely part of the problem. Or more accurately the fact that we own so many guns in this country is an indicator of a deeper problem that is caused by many different things. But the pro-gun crowd seems to want to ignore the "fact" that we own TOO MANY guns in this country. Perhaps gun control isn't the answer to effectively reducing them but we do need to reduce them.
Reduce them?
How?
Which kind?
How many?
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Old 12-18-2012, 11:56 AM   #200
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Re: Gun Control Thread- Should we?

If someone owns 1,000 firearms and never abuses them why should they be limited?

Wrong-headed thinking.
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Old 12-18-2012, 12:26 PM   #201
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Re: Gun Control Thread- Should we?

Not to mention that Conneticut already had an assault weapons ban and also some of the most restrictive gun laws in the nation.
Didnt seem to matter did it?
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Old 12-18-2012, 12:36 PM   #202
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Re: Gun Control Thread- Should we?

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Right...my point that I am making rather inelegantly is that the problem is clearly very complicated and multi-factored...but guns are absolutely part of the problem. Or more accurately the fact that we own so many guns in this country is an indicator of a deeper problem that is caused by many different things. But the pro-gun crowd seems to want to ignore the "fact" that we own TOO MANY guns in this country. Perhaps gun control isn't the answer to effectively reducing them but we do need to reduce them.
There is absolutely no correlation between the amount of guns a person owns to crime rate. There is also no evidence of any deep problem or any problem at all, with the ownership of multiple guns. It is no more of an indicator of deep seeded issues than someone owning multiple cars or multiple guitars.

There is no definition of "too many" guns in this country. There is no such thing. So, there is no such evidence to support that reducing the amount of guns in this country would reduce the amount of violent crimes in this country.

Reducing the amount of guns does nothing to treat the mentally ill who commit these crimes. If people focused their attention, arguments, and efforts behind helping to improve behavioral healthcare, then you would start seeing tangible differences in crime rate. There is where you start to see more of a correlation: behavioral health issues = crime.
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Old 12-18-2012, 12:50 PM   #203
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Re: Gun Control Thread- Should we?

In support of skinsguy's point I would cite the fact that just about every household in Switzerland has a gun, it has one of the highest rates of gun ownership (almost 50%) due to their use of citizens as a standing militia. However their gun crime is so low they don't even keep records on it.
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Old 12-18-2012, 12:58 PM   #204
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Re: Gun Control Thread- Should we?

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The problem with this topic when it comes to violent acts such as what happened last week in Connecticut is the fact that you get two camps of knee-jerk arguments: More guns VS no guns. Both arguments do nothing for the root of the problem. The root of the problem is not the guns themselves. It's the people who operate them. Strict gun laws keep the honest men honest. That's about it. Those who are deranged enough to use these guns to go out and commit violent acts will do so whether they obtain the guns legally or illegally. That's just the facts.

The root of the problem is the mental health programs in the states from where these people live in. Are these mental health programs up to par, and if so, how can they be made more affordable or more available to those who need them? In every case, we can pretty much figure that there was something badly wrong, with the person who committed these acts. What if this person had been treated for his issues? I know, who's to say he wasn't, but I think this is where people need to focus on first before entertaining changing our First Amendment Rights.
Here's the issue with your analogy. Vehicles and Booze have primary uses. When not used, as intended, then they can have negative consequeneces. However, their value, especially that of a vehicle, is very important in our culture and society. Guns have a single purpose. They are for killing. The guns used in the CT murders were used as they were intended to be used, for killing. The car or alcohol in your analogy were used as they are not intended to be used. That is the disconnect.

I say we take a note from Australia. In 1996 they had a massacre, and they reacted by banning all automatic and semi-automatic rifles and shotguns. After the ban Australia saw a 59% drop in firearm homicide and a 65% drop in firearm suicide. More importantly, they saw no increase in non-firearm homicides or suicides. That is real world evidence that banning assault weapons lower the murder and suicide rates in the area affected.

No one is saying that a gun ban will eliminate gun violence. It will put a hamper on crimes that are not premeditated and make it more difficult to get the type of guns that can cause massive amounts of damage in a short amount of time, especially without red flags being raised. The gun ban is certainly no silver bullet type of situation, but it is one of many steps that can greatly reduce the amount of violence we face in this country in addition to more money spent on preventitive mental health care.

Link: Did gun control work in Australia? (Has links to studies built in)
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Old 12-18-2012, 01:30 PM   #205
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Old 12-18-2012, 01:37 PM   #206
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Re: Gun Control Thread- Should we?

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That's funny
What's funny about it? It's evident you (and others) are trolling at this point. Why you say?

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Originally Posted by FRPLG View Post
The pro gun crowd doesn't have answers. Some even seem to ignore the alarming stats that point to a serious problem. I cannot fathom how they don't find concern with the sheer amount of guns owned in the country. If guns aren't he problem...or a part of it...then what is?
We don't have answers, yet not a single one of you have acknowledge what I posted with any sincerity. Not one. Yet the evidence is OVERWHELMING that it plays a huge part in why we have mass murderers, yet...the answer is always......BAN THIS/REGULATE THAT.


How about we address the real problems at hand. Mental health and media. They play more of a factor here than do the availability of guns. These people are doing this merely for the attention it will bring to them once they are gone.
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Old 12-18-2012, 01:38 PM   #207
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Re: Gun Control Thread- Should we?

Chinese teenager kills 8 people, wounds 5 in knife attack - Yahoo! News


LETS REGULATE KNIVES!!
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Old 12-18-2012, 02:58 PM   #208
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Re: Gun Control Thread- Should we?

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Reduce them?
How?
Which kind?
How many?
Good questions
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Old 12-18-2012, 02:58 PM   #209
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Re: Gun Control Thread- Should we?

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Originally Posted by RedskinRat View Post
If someone owns 1,000 firearms and never abuses them why should they be limited?

Wrong-headed thinking.
Who said they should?
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Old 12-18-2012, 03:05 PM   #210
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Re: Gun Control Thread- Should we?

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Who said they should?
You did:

FRPLG: ".....but guns are absolutely part of the problem. Or more accurately the fact that we own so many guns in this country is an indicator of a deeper problem that is caused by many different things. But the pro-gun crowd seems to want to ignore the "fact" that we own TOO MANY guns in this country. Perhaps gun control isn't the answer to effectively reducing them but we do need to reduce them."
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