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Gun Control Thread- Should we?

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Old 12-19-2012, 09:25 AM   #226
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Re: Gun Control Thread- Should we?

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Originally Posted by Lotus View Post
Certainly we need to get a better hold on the roles of mental health and the media in gun violence.

But it is also true that if we also take guns off of the streets, then people would be forced to find less lethal ways to seek "attention."
We're never taking all guns off the street. That's not gonna happen. How could we even do it?
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Old 12-19-2012, 09:54 AM   #227
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Re: Gun Control Thread- Should we?

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Missing the point really. Maybe we need to talk about how guns make it easier to kill than other weapons. Its quicker, more painless and efficient. You are pressing a trigger from yards away...kinda makes it easier to desensitize yourself.

It's a combination of capacity and easy of doing significant harm.

Why not make holes in paper using an air rifle or something? Why does it have to be bullets? If your answer is because I can, feels good, murica, etc. then I can't talk to you.
It doesnt have to a "bullet", but thats what I choose.
I'm doing somehting quite harmless. And quite legal.
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Old 12-19-2012, 10:16 AM   #228
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Re: Gun Control Thread- Should we?

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But it is also true that if we also take guns off of the streets, then people would be forced to find less lethal ways to seek "attention."
I disagree, not surprisingly. Guns are not going to magically disappear, we have to find a way to identify a potential abuser and stop them. It always seems that there are plenty of people after the fact that will attest to 'creepy eyes' or extremely anti-social behavior yet the amount of intervention by society in general and mental health professionals in particular is lacking.

There will always be a way to create a sensationalized event, using poison, explosives, even interfering with a freeway or railroad track.

If only we had Skynet's behavioral prediction model to help...... j/K
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Old 12-19-2012, 10:19 AM   #229
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Re: Gun Control Thread- Should we?

OMG im never giving up my gun...every time i hear someone say this it makes me cringe
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Old 12-19-2012, 10:37 AM   #230
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Re: Gun Control Thread- Should we?

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OMG im never giving up my gun...every time i hear someone say this it makes me cringe
Because you didn't have a gun in the first place?
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Old 12-19-2012, 10:56 AM   #231
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It doesnt have to a "bullet", but thats what I choose.
I'm doing somehting quite harmless. And quite legal.
Just because its legal doesn't mean it should or shouldn't be. Not a valid retort IMO. We are debating the validity of existing and possible future legislation.
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Old 12-19-2012, 11:03 AM   #232
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Also I'm sick of the guns don't kill people argument. If you want to make a literal argument for the sake of justifying a position without facts I have one too; nukes don't kill people, countries pressing the red button do. Why should we even discuss reducing nuclear stock piles or preventing states from getting them? They are just deterrents!!

See how I took a ridiculous point, interpreted super literally, to counter? We can do this all day. Its stupid and pointless. Guns, especially high ammo and high fire rate, make killing people easier and really are not needed for practical purposes.
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Old 12-19-2012, 11:17 AM   #233
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Piers Morgan really can be a POS. Not Bill Maher level, but a real dick. Its like Rush or Bill, from the other side.
Exactly how he came across. Rush or Bill from the other side. Lol.
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Old 12-19-2012, 11:21 AM   #234
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Re: Gun Control Thread- Should we?

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Also I'm sick of the guns don't kill people argument. If you want to make a literal argument for the sake of justifying a position without facts
It's a valid argument that can be applied to anything.

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I have one too; nukes don't kill people, countries pressing the red button do. Why should we even discuss reducing nuclear stock piles or preventing states from getting them? They are just deterrents!!
Rogue states are the problem, not the weapons themselves. If you can't see that this may not be the discussion for you. When was the last time we had nuclear ordinance activate and kill without human intervention?

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See how I took a ridiculous point, interpreted super literally, to counter? We can do this all day. Its stupid and pointless. Guns, especially high ammo and high fire rate, make killing people easier and really are not needed for practical purposes.
WTF is high ammo? What's the difference between a high capacity magazine and multiple 5 round magazines? A few seconds is all. Go to any range and watch people drill on mag changes.
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Old 12-19-2012, 11:25 AM   #235
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Re: Gun Control Thread- Should we?

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We're never taking all guns off the street. That's not gonna happen. How could we even do it?
I never said ALL guns. But Australia has already had a successful campaign of taking many guns off of the streets and their homicide rate plummeted. It can be done.
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Old 12-19-2012, 11:26 AM   #236
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Re: Gun Control Thread- Should we?

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I disagree, not surprisingly. Guns are not going to magically disappear, we have to find a way to identify a potential abuser and stop them. It always seems that there are plenty of people after the fact that will attest to 'creepy eyes' or extremely anti-social behavior yet the amount of intervention by society in general and mental health professionals in particular is lacking.

There will always be a way to create a sensationalized event, using poison, explosives, even interfering with a freeway or railroad track.

If only we had Skynet's behavioral prediction model to help...... j/K
We've already tried that approach and, as a result, many people are dead.

We need a different approach.
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Old 12-19-2012, 11:29 AM   #237
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Re: Gun Control Thread- Should we?

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We've already tried that approach and, as a result, many people are dead.

We need a different approach.
I am not familiar with that exercise. When did that happen?
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Old 12-19-2012, 11:32 AM   #238
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lotus View Post
I never said ALL guns. But Australia has already had a successful campaign of taking many guns off of the streets and their homicide rate plummeted. It can be done.
And they are a country of criminals! Imagine what we could do as a country of normal people!
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Old 12-19-2012, 11:36 AM   #239
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Re: Gun Control Thread- Should we?

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And they are a country of criminals! Imagine what we could do as a country of normal people!
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Old 12-19-2012, 11:38 AM   #240
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Re: Gun Control Thread- Should we?

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Here's the issue with your analogy. Vehicles and Booze have primary uses. When not used, as intended, then they can have negative consequeneces. However, their value, especially that of a vehicle, is very important in our culture and society. Guns have a single purpose. They are for killing. The guns used in the CT murders were used as they were intended to be used, for killing. The car or alcohol in your analogy were used as they are not intended to be used. That is the disconnect.un control work in Australia?
Guns do not have a sole purpose or intent. They are not live, breathing life forms. They are inadament objects. The intent lies with the person who is using one. The same as someone who's wielding a knife, using a baseball bat for purposes other than playing baseball, or using their hands and feet in certain deadly styles of martial arts. Knowing these facts, it remains like I stated earlier, dealing with the root of the problem, behavioral health, would lead to much less gun crime than greatly reducing or banning fire arms.


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I say we take a note from Australia. In 1996 they had a massacre, and they reacted by banning all automatic and semi-automatic rifles and shotguns. After the ban Australia saw a 59% drop in firearm homicide and a 65% drop in firearm suicide. More importantly, they saw no increase in non-firearm homicides or suicides. That is real world evidence that banning assault weapons lower the murder and suicide rates in the area affected.
Or we could take a note from Switzerland, who does not have a standing army, but rather a militia. Most every male carries a weapon, and gun crime rates are so low in Switzerland that they don't even have to kept statistics.

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No one is saying that a gun ban will eliminate gun violence. It will put a hamper on crimes that are not premeditated and make it more difficult to get the type of guns that can cause massive amounts of damage in a short amount of time, especially without red flags being raised. The gun ban is certainly no silver bullet type of situation, but it is one of many steps that can greatly reduce the amount of violence we face in this country in addition to more money spent on preventitive mental health care.
Here's where you guys are so one dimensional in your thinking. You are assuming that banning guns will greatly reduce gun crimes. It's the same failed logic to the war on drugs and illegal alcohol. The only thing that gun laws do now is keep an honest man honest. A ban on fire arms would disarm law abiding citizens, and suddenly there is a HUGE under world black market for guns just like drugs. Your street gangs and mafias, your homicidal people will still be armed, still be committing murders, and your law abiding citizens will feel unprotected.

What I'm trying to get you guys to look at is treating and correcting the root of the problem FIRST! That is the MOST effective way of reducing violent crimes. The root of that problem is the behavior, the tendency toward committing these crimes. Haven't you learned anything in history? Man needed food, so he made weapons to kill his dinner and tools to cook. Man needed to travel, so he made roads and vehicles. My point is, if man does not have a tool he needs, he'll create it or use alternatives to getting the tools he needs in life. He won't just throw his hands up and say, "ah well, guess I won't ever be able to kill anybody anymore now since guns are banned." You honest, really think that is going to happen? LOL!
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