Warpath  

Home | Forums | Salary Cap Info | Shop | Donate | Stay Connected




Go Back   Warpath > Off-Topic Discussion > Debating with the enemy


Gun Control Thread- Should we?

Debating with the enemy


Closed Thread
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 12-19-2012, 03:05 PM   #271
New HC, new hope!
 
RedskinRat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: I'm in LA, trick!
Posts: 8,702
Re: Gun Control Thread- Should we?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lotus View Post
And, as I already said, that source has been discredited for two reasons.

1) The statistical model they used was flawed.
2) That source was created by people in the Australian gun lobby and hence had a predetermined outcome.

Find out more here:
http://andrewleigh.org/pdf/GunBuyback.pdf

Or try this source from Harvard:
http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/research...pring_2011.pdf

All reputable research indicates that the Aussie get-tough-on-guns approach worked.
Counter to that is a far more thoroughly researched paper by Lee and Suardi which would suggest otherwise.

Although gun buybacks appear to be a logical
and sensible policy that helps to placate the
publicís fears, the evidence so far suggests that
in the Australian context, the high expenditure
incurred to fund the 1996 gun buyback has not
translated into any tangible reductions in
terms of firearm deaths.


It will take a more concerted effort by everyone to counter societal ills that foment this kind of act.
RedskinRat is offline  

Advertisements
Old 12-19-2012, 03:11 PM   #272
MVP
 
dmek25's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: lancaster,pa
Age: 52
Posts: 10,515
Re: Gun Control Thread- Should we?

Quote:
Originally Posted by RedskinRat View Post
Because you didn't have a gun in the first place?
because it seems to me that people are so self absorbed that they are worried about themselves, instead of maybe looking at the big picture
__________________
"It's better to be quiet and thought a fool than to open ones mouth and remove all doubt."
courtesy of 53fan
dmek25 is offline  
Old 12-19-2012, 03:19 PM   #273
New HC, new hope!
 
RedskinRat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: I'm in LA, trick!
Posts: 8,702
Re: Gun Control Thread- Should we?

Quote:
Originally Posted by dmek25 View Post
because it seems to me that people are so self absorbed that they are worried about themselves, instead of maybe looking at the big picture
From the point of self defense, I am exceedingly self absorbed or as I prefer to look at it: Proactive.

I live in a remote, high crime area. There is no way that cops are getting to my location, should I need their help, in under 30 minutes at best. I choose to have a defensive solution to hand.

I could understand your stance if I was out brandishing my handgun and big pimpin'.

Tell me what you think the bigger picture is? Kumbayah around the firepit with marshmallows? Eff that!
RedskinRat is offline  
Old 12-19-2012, 04:15 PM   #274
Playmaker
 
Alvin Walton's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Holland, Michigan
Posts: 4,267
Re: Gun Control Thread- Should we?

Quote:
Originally Posted by hooskins View Post
Also I'm sick of the guns don't kill people argument. If you want to make a literal argument for the sake of justifying a position without facts I have one too; nukes don't kill people, countries pressing the red button do. Why should we even discuss reducing nuclear stock piles or preventing states from getting them? They are just deterrents!!

See how I took a ridiculous point, interpreted super literally, to counter? We can do this all day. Its stupid and pointless. Guns, especially high ammo and high fire rate, make killing people easier and really are not needed for practical purposes.
What does that mean?

If they are used for practical purposes, why should it matter, they are not harming anyone. You say they are not needed, do you really think you are qualified to speak for every law abiding citizen that owns one?

Please explain what legal guns you think have high fire rate.
__________________
REDSKINS FAN SINCE 1968

Last edited by Alvin Walton; 12-19-2012 at 04:31 PM.
Alvin Walton is offline  
Old 12-19-2012, 04:30 PM   #275
Mann Up HOF!
 
Lotus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Hattiesburg, MS
Posts: 10,511
Re: Gun Control Thread- Should we?

Quote:
Originally Posted by RedskinRat View Post
Counter to that is a far more thoroughly researched paper by Lee and Suardi which would suggest otherwise.

Although gun buybacks appear to be a logical
and sensible policy that helps to placate the
publicís fears, the evidence so far suggests that
in the Australian context, the high expenditure
incurred to fund the 1996 gun buyback has not
translated into any tangible reductions in
terms of firearm deaths.


It will take a more concerted effort by everyone to counter societal ills that foment this kind of act.
And as you know from the links that I provided, the study by Lee and Suardi has been refuted.

Any more discredited research that you guys would like to cite, since you are 0 for 2 so far in providing substantive research which supports your position?
__________________
Rooting for the Dallas Cowboys should be recognized as a treatable mental disorder.
Lotus is online now  
Old 12-19-2012, 04:32 PM   #276
Playmaker
 
Alvin Walton's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Holland, Michigan
Posts: 4,267
Re: Gun Control Thread- Should we?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lotus View Post
And as you know from the links that I provided, the study by Lee and Suardi has been refuted.

Any more discredited research that you guys would like to cite, since you are 0 for 2 so far in providing substantive research which supports your position?
One problem with that whole thing.
This isnt Australia.
Different history, different culture, different etc etc etc
__________________
REDSKINS FAN SINCE 1968
Alvin Walton is offline  
Old 12-19-2012, 04:32 PM   #277
Franchise Player
 
mredskins's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 8,636
Re: Gun Control Thread- Should we?

One of the more powerful statements I have heard:

If only the first victim, Adam Lanza's mother, had been a gun owner, she could have stopped this before it started.
__________________
When life gives you paper jams, turn them into paper footballs!
mredskins is offline  
Old 12-19-2012, 04:38 PM   #278
Mann Up HOF!
 
Lotus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Hattiesburg, MS
Posts: 10,511
Re: Gun Control Thread- Should we?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alvin Walton View Post
One problem with that whole thing.
This isnt Australia.
Different history, different culture, different etc etc etc
The Harvard study that I provided discusses this exact issue.

We can learn from the Aussie experience and still create our own, uniquely American solution. The current American status quo clearly is not working.
__________________
Rooting for the Dallas Cowboys should be recognized as a treatable mental disorder.
Lotus is online now  
Old 12-19-2012, 04:43 PM   #279
New HC, new hope!
 
RedskinRat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: I'm in LA, trick!
Posts: 8,702
Re: Gun Control Thread- Should we?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lotus View Post
And as you know from the links that I provided, the study by Lee and Suardi has been refuted.

Any more discredited research that you guys would like to cite, since you are 0 for 2 so far in providing substantive research which supports your position?
There is no mention of Lee and/or Suardi or their work in the first link and the second makes some vague rebuttal that there may have been a lag between the implementation and the effect.

However it does make this comment you obviously overlooked:

It does not appear that the Australian experience with gun buybacks is fully replicable in the United States. Levitt provides three reasons why gun buybacks in the United States have apparently been ineffective: (a) the buybacks are relatively small in scale (b) guns are surrendered voluntarily, and so are not like the ones used in crime; and (c) replacement guns are easy to obtain.

Once again you try to bluster or bluff your way through an argument you can't validate.
RedskinRat is offline  
Old 12-19-2012, 04:43 PM   #280
Franchise Player
 
mredskins's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 8,636
Re: Gun Control Thread- Should we?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alvin Walton View Post
One problem with that whole thing.
This isnt Australia.
Different history, different culture, different etc etc etc

Actually they are all descendents of crimmnals.
__________________
When life gives you paper jams, turn them into paper footballs!
mredskins is offline  
Old 12-19-2012, 04:43 PM   #281
New HC, new hope!
 
RedskinRat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: I'm in LA, trick!
Posts: 8,702
Re: Gun Control Thread- Should we?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mredskins View Post
One of the more powerful statements I have heard:

If only the first victim, Adam Lanza's mother, had been a gun owner, she could have stopped this before it started.
It's certainly one of the more obtuse. If only she had been a better mother.....
RedskinRat is offline  
Old 12-19-2012, 04:48 PM   #282
New HC, new hope!
 
RedskinRat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: I'm in LA, trick!
Posts: 8,702
Re: Gun Control Thread- Should we?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mredskins View Post
Actually they are all descendents of crimmnals.
Original Aussies, yes. There have been immigrants going there from the UK since the 1960's.
RedskinRat is offline  
Old 12-19-2012, 05:00 PM   #283
Mann Up HOF!
 
Lotus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Hattiesburg, MS
Posts: 10,511
Re: Gun Control Thread- Should we?

Quote:
Originally Posted by RedskinRat View Post
There is no mention of Lee and/or Suardi or their work in the first link and the second makes some vague rebuttal that there may have been a lag between the implementation and the effect.

However it does make this comment you obviously overlooked:

It does not appear that the Australian experience with gun buybacks is fully replicable in the United States. Levitt provides three reasons why gun buybacks in the United States have apparently been ineffective: (a) the buybacks are relatively small in scale (b) guns are surrendered voluntarily, and so are not like the ones used in crime; and (c) replacement guns are easy to obtain.

Once again you try to bluster or bluff your way through an argument you can't validate.
Thank you for actually reading a link.

The first link I posted does not mention Lee and Suardi but it directly rebuts points made in the Lee and Suardi paper. The second article actually critiques Lee and Suardi more deeply than you indicate. The second article, in nice academic prose, essentially calls Lee and Suardi fools. Thus both articles I posted refute Lee and Suardi.

But you are right - the Harvard article I posted says that the Aussie experience is not fully replicable in the USA. I hinted at this in a post above. But the article does point to positive gains from the Aussie experience which we Americans can learn from and, if not "fully" replicate, still enact to our betterment.

I'm not trying to "bluff" through anything here. I have provided sound research and a logical argument which can be used to help us find our way out of our current gun regulations, which clearly are not working.
__________________
Rooting for the Dallas Cowboys should be recognized as a treatable mental disorder.
Lotus is online now  
Old 12-19-2012, 05:02 PM   #284
Mann Up HOF!
 
Lotus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Hattiesburg, MS
Posts: 10,511
Re: Gun Control Thread- Should we?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mredskins View Post
One of the more powerful statements I have heard:

If only the first victim, Adam Lanza's mother, had been a gun owner, she could have stopped this before it started.
Yeah, the whole situation in CT makes arguments of the type, "If only someone else had a gun...", even more ludicrous than they already were.
__________________
Rooting for the Dallas Cowboys should be recognized as a treatable mental disorder.
Lotus is online now  
Old 12-19-2012, 05:15 PM   #285
New HC, new hope!
 
RedskinRat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: I'm in LA, trick!
Posts: 8,702
Re: Gun Control Thread- Should we?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lotus View Post
Yeah, the whole situation in CT makes arguments of the type, "If only someone else had a gun...", even more ludicrous than they already were.
Would it make the statement easier to comprehend, do you think, if it were more accurately stated as "If only someone had a gun and were able to use it" instead of couching it in an obviously loaded (no pun intended) way?
RedskinRat is offline  
Closed Thread

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:52 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site is not officially affiliated with the Washington Redskins or the NFL.
Page generated in 0.30539 seconds with 9 queries

Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.2.0 RC5

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25