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Gun Control Thread- Should we?

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Old 01-02-2013, 10:21 AM   #376
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Re: Gun Control Thread- Should we?

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Oh ,so becuase you use one type of source I have to use that also,
Only if you want to be credible.

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and if I don't I'm a liar,
No, you're a liar because you tell lies. Your most recent is using a distorted set of figures from a biased website. The worst was saying I mocked the shooting victims. Still waiting for an apology......


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how old are you?
None of your business and irrelevant to the topic.

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The NRA is a lobbyest group and you have no problem throwing their stats out when you need them.
And yet I don't, do I?

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Typical gun culture thinking when they are matched up with facts ,they start personal attacks.
You haven't posed any facts, just some scaremongering figures which are wrong. I asked you from which year we had 30K of violent gun deaths? You never answered because you can't.

Claiming I am part of som nefarious 'gun culture' just makes you look more feebleminded and played by the media. I find it amusing, others may not.
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Old 01-02-2013, 12:02 PM   #377
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Re: Gun Control Thread- Should we?

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I'l have to say New Years at 12:00 I heard several rounds of guns going off mixed with fireworks. I'm living in a nice neighborhood (renting as we build) and was very surprised to hear guns being fired off to ring in the new year. Maybe it happened at my other house and I was just too drunk to notice.
I can go down to the Indiana border and buy fireworks that are louder than gunshots.
Did you see any guns or just hear a boom?
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Old 01-02-2013, 12:18 PM   #378
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Re: Gun Control Thread- Should we?

Here's a nice example today of a gun owner using his firearm to aid his family:

Daily Mail - Naked man shot breaking into Miami home, strangling pet Rottweiler.
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Old 01-02-2013, 12:36 PM   #379
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Re: Gun Control Thread- Should we?

And here is an example of gun control working.


Australia a Model for Successful Gun Control Laws - ABC News
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Old 01-02-2013, 01:01 PM   #380
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I heard the pop, pop, pop, of a gun not a firework. I to have fireworks louder then a gun and heard fireworks on new years louder I just know the sound of a gun.
Yeah. Sitting in the field across the street from my house, we heard one burst of automatic fire and several shots from semiautomatics. Normal for downtown Baltimore. Actually heard fewer shots than in the past.

Still remember the time I celebrated New Year's Eve with a friend a couple blocks away and, while standing in the driveway, two guys across the street stepped out of a doorway and started blasting away into the air. One had a hand gun the other an automatic rifle ... We went back inside quickly.
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Old 01-02-2013, 01:21 PM   #381
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Re: Gun Control Thread- Should we?

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And here is an example of gun control working.


Australia a Model for Successful Gun Control Laws - ABC News
No, not really.....

AUSTRALIA: MORE VIOLENT CRIME DESPITE GUN BAN

Even Australia's Bureau of Crime Statistics and Research acknowledges that the gun ban had no significant impact on the amount of gun-involved crime:
  • In 2006, assault rose 49.2 percent and robbery 6.2 percent.
  • Sexual assault -- Australia's equivalent term for rape -- increased 29.9 percent.
  • Overall, Australia's violent crime rate rose 42.2 percent.
Moreover, Australia and the United States -- where no gun-ban exists -- both experienced similar decreases in murder rates:
  • Between 1995 and 2007, Australia saw a 31.9 percent decrease; without a gun ban, America's rate dropped 31.7 percent.
  • During the same time period, all other violent crime indices increased in Australia: assault rose 49.2 percent and robbery 6.2 percent.
  • Sexual assault -- Australia's equivalent term for rape -- increased 29.9 percent.
  • Overall, Australia's violent crime rate rose 42.2 percent.
  • At the same time, U.S. violent crime decreased 31.8 percent: rape dropped 19.2 percent; robbery decreased 33.2 percent; aggravated assault dropped 32.2 percent.
  • Australian women are now raped over three times as often as American women.
But at least criminals aren't getting shot, so that's nice.....
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Old 01-02-2013, 01:45 PM   #382
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Re: Gun Control Thread- Should we?

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No, not really.....

AUSTRALIA: MORE VIOLENT CRIME DESPITE GUN BAN

Even Australia's Bureau of Crime Statistics and Research acknowledges that the gun ban had no significant impact on the amount of gun-involved crime:
  • In 2006, assault rose 49.2 percent and robbery 6.2 percent.
  • Sexual assault -- Australia's equivalent term for rape -- increased 29.9 percent.
  • Overall, Australia's violent crime rate rose 42.2 percent.
Moreover, Australia and the United States -- where no gun-ban exists -- both experienced similar decreases in murder rates:
  • Between 1995 and 2007, Australia saw a 31.9 percent decrease; without a gun ban, America's rate dropped 31.7 percent.
  • During the same time period, all other violent crime indices increased in Australia: assault rose 49.2 percent and robbery 6.2 percent.
  • Sexual assault -- Australia's equivalent term for rape -- increased 29.9 percent.
  • Overall, Australia's violent crime rate rose 42.2 percent.
  • At the same time, U.S. violent crime decreased 31.8 percent: rape dropped 19.2 percent; robbery decreased 33.2 percent; aggravated assault dropped 32.2 percent.
  • Australian women are now raped over three times as often as American women.
But at least criminals aren't getting shot, so that's nice.....
Any stats involving just percents are useless. A percent is always the easiest "number" to manipulate when analysing. Why ad companies use percent all the time.

Example:

Koons Chevy was down 20% in car sales in 2012 compared to Jimmy John's Rust Bucket Lot who was up 10% in sales.

Looks like Jimmy John cleaned house in 2012. Right?

Koons Total Cars Sold 2012: 1200
Jimmy Johns Cars Sold 2012: 11
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Old 01-02-2013, 01:53 PM   #383
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Re: Gun Control Thread- Should we?

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Any stats involving just percents are useless. A percent is always the easiest "number" to manipulate when analysing.
Your stat example is misleading as you're comparing two different dealerships, I am using their stats where they take the same crime and compare it in different years.

Do you see the difference?

So the stats I cited stand up to examination, yours clearly wouldn't as you're comparing apples and oranges. Nice try though. I'll give you 2/10 for effort.
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Old 01-02-2013, 02:18 PM   #384
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Re: Gun Control Thread- Should we?

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Your stat example is misleading as you're comparing two different dealerships, I am using their stats where they take the same crime and compare it in different years.

Do you see the difference?

So the stats I cited stand up to examination, yours clearly wouldn't as you're comparing apples and oranges. Nice try though. I'll give you 2/10 for effort.
You are comparing two countries I am comparing two car dealerships. It is the total number of your subject matter that weighs the most not the percent number.

How do like them apples?
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Old 01-02-2013, 02:31 PM   #385
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Re: Gun Control Thread- Should we?

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You are comparing two countries I am comparing two car dealerships. It is the total number of your subject matter that weighs the most not the percent number.

How do like them apples?
I LOVE them!

Look again: Violent crime ROSE. Do you agree or would you argue that it's not what it means when 'Assault rose 49.2 %'?

As for the percentages, yes, you could argue that one is not comparable except that the statement 'Australian women are now raped over three times as often as American women.' isn't a percentage.

Wait! Are we the shitty rust bucket or the Cadillac dealer in the analogy?
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Old 01-02-2013, 04:27 PM   #386
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Re: Gun Control Thread- Should we?

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I LOVE them!

Look again: Violent crime ROSE. Do you agree or would you argue that it's not what it means when 'Assault rose 49.2 %'?

As for the percentages, yes, you could argue that one is not comparable except that the statement 'Australian women are now raped over three times as often as American women.' isn't a percentage.

Wait! Are we the shitty rust bucket or the Cadillac dealer in the analogy?
Look I am not arguing whether or not not Australia has a more effective or less effective gun laws. I am just saying a percent is a poor benchmark because it can be manipulated.

Even Australian women are now rapped over times as often as American women. How do quantify that? If only 3 women lived in Australia and all 3 were raped yeah I guess that be true. 100% of the female population was raped in Australia; OMG! How many women was that? Oh 3 compared to the millions that live in the US.

Next you are going to argue only choosy moms choose Jiffy.
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Old 01-02-2013, 04:35 PM   #387
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Re: Gun Control Thread- Should we?

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Look I am not arguing whether or not not Australia has a more effective or less effective gun laws. I am just saying a percent is a poor benchmark because it can be manipulated.
It's still a measure that, without going into overwhelming number crunching, illustrates that the argument being used by some people is erroneous.

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Even Australian women are now rapped over times as often as American women. How do quantify that? If only 3 women lived in Australia and all 3 were raped yeah I guess that be true. 100% of the female population was raped in Australia; OMG! How many women was that? Oh 3 compared to the millions that live in the US.
Clearly that's not a serious argument. The sad fact is that violent crime goes up when criminals know there's a lower risk of fatal consequences.

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Next you are going to argue only choosy moms choose Jiffy.
As long as they are making sandwiches..... J/K
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Old 01-02-2013, 05:57 PM   #388
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Re: Gun Control Thread- Should we?

For those who don't read.......


Australia a Model for Successful Gun Control Laws - ABC News



The laws banned assault rifles, tightened gun owner licensing, and created national uniform registration standards. Howard knew they might be unpopular among some of the same voters who helped put him into office -- during one particularly hostile public town hall, he wore a bulletproof vest.
But something extraordinary happened: the laws tapped into public revulsion at the shooting and became extremely popular. And they became extremely effective.

Tom Williams/CQ Roll Call/Getty Images
Protesters march to the National Rifle... View Full Size


Tom Williams/CQ Roll Call/Getty Images
Protesters march to the National Rifle Association headquarters on Capitol Hill in Washington, Dec. 17, 2012.






In the last 16 years, the risk of dying by gunshot in Australia has fallen by more than 50 percent. The national rate of gun homicide is one-thirtieth that of the United States. And there hasn't been a single mass shooting since Port Arthur.
"It's not that we are a less violent people and that you are a more violent people," says Philip Alpers, an adjunct associate professor at the University of Sydney who runs GunPolicy.org, which tracks gun violence and gun laws across the world. "It's that you have more lethal means at your disposal."
But it wasn't just the new laws that made Australia safer. The gun buyback program collected nearly 650,000 assault weapons and 50,000 additional weapons about one sixth of the national stock. Fewer guns on the street helped severely reduce the likelihood that guns could be used for a mass shooting.
"Tens, if not hundreds of thousands of gun owners simply, voluntarily gave up guns that they did not need to give up," Alpers told ABC News. "You could not be a gun owner during that period and not feel terribly persecuted, terribly under threat from public opinion. The commentaries were vicious."
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Old 01-02-2013, 06:01 PM   #389
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Re: Gun Control Thread- Should we?

Guns in the United States: Facts, Figures and Firearm Law


A link that keeps numbers.......
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Old 01-03-2013, 10:25 AM   #390
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Re: Gun Control Thread- Should we?

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A link that keeps numbers.......
A link that contradicts your previous post from Brady Campaign.

Gun Homicides:

2009: 9,146
2008: 9,484
2007: 10,129
2006: 10,225
2005: 10,158
2004: 9,385
2003: 9,659
2002: 9,369
2001: 8,890
1999: 8,259
1998: 9,257

I don't see 30K there, do you?

Thanks for the link, the numbers are close to those of the FBI and CDC.
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