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Gun Control Thread- Should we?

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Old 01-16-2013, 06:32 AM   #466
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Done deal.Maryland next

New York passes nation's toughest gun control law | NJ.com

York state enacted the nation's toughest gun restrictions today and the first since the Connecticut school massacre, including an expanded assault-weapon ban and background checks for buying ammunition.
Democratic Gov. Andrew Cuomo signed the measure into law less than an hour after it won final passage in the Legislature, with supporters hailing it as a model for the nation and gun-rights activists condemning it as a knee-jerk piece of legislation that won't make anyone safer and is too extreme to win support in the rest of the country.
"Common sense can win," Cuomo said. "You can overpower the extremists with intelligence and with reason and with common sense."
I have no clue whether this law will have any substantitive effect, but one thing I can guarantee is that laws made on the heels of any major tragedy inevitably include bad parts, and parts that take away rights that most people wouldn't even consider giving up even a few weeks later.
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Old 01-16-2013, 09:57 AM   #467
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Re: Gun Control Thread- Should we?

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"Common sense can win," Cuomo said. "You can overpower the extremists with intelligence and with reason and with common sense."
I love the use of words like 'Overpower' and 'Extremists' when discussing law abiding gun owners.

Bravo, noble sheepleherder, bravo!
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Old 01-16-2013, 10:11 AM   #468
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Re: Gun Control Thread- Should we?

Cuomo wants to "win" and have it his way. He doesnt have the countrys best interests at heart, just his own. You can tell by the way he words things.
Not to mention the guys idiotic 16 oz soda ban.
New York is a sh1thole of repression.
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Old 01-16-2013, 11:09 AM   #469
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Re: Gun Control Thread- Should we?

NY and CA are perfect examples of a Nanny State.
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Old 01-16-2013, 12:18 PM   #470
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Re: Gun Control Thread- Should we?

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Originally Posted by RedskinRat View Post
I love the use of words like 'Overpower' and 'Extremists' when discussing law abiding gun owners.

Bravo, noble sheepleherder, bravo!
I agree. I think this might apply here.

Articles: The Left's Greatest Mind-Trick: Politicizing Emotion
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Old 01-16-2013, 01:26 PM   #471
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Re: Gun Control Thread- Should we?

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You're sound asleep when you hear a thump outside your bedroom. Half-awake and nearly paralyzed with fear, you hear muffled whispers.

At least two people have broken into your house and are moving your way.

With your heart pumping, you reach down beside your bed and pick up your shotgun.

You rack a shell into the chamber, then inch toward the door and open it.

In the darkness, you make out two shadows.

One holds something that looks like a crowbar.

When the intruder brandishes it as if to strike, you raise the shotgun and fire.

The blast knocks both thugs to the floor.

One writhes and screams while the second man crawls to the front door and lurches outside.

As you pick up the telephone to call police, you know you're in trouble.

In your country, most guns were outlawed years before, and the few that are privately owned are so stringently regulated as to make them useless..

Yours was never registered.

Police arrive and inform you that the second burglar has died.

They arrest you for First Degree Murder and Illegal Possession of a Firearm.

When you talk to your attorney, he tells you not to worry: authorities will probably plea the case down to manslaughter.

"What kind of sentence will I get?" you ask.

"Only ten-to-twelve years," he replies, as if that's nothing.

"Behave yourself, and you'll be out in seven."

The next day, the shooting is the lead story in the local newspaper. Somehow, you're portrayed as an eccentric vigilante while the two men you shot are represented as choirboys.

Their friends and relatives can't find an unkind word to say about them..

Buried deep down in the article, authorities acknowledge that both "victims" have been arrested numerous times.

But the next day's headline says it all:

"Lovable Rogue Son Didn't Deserve to Die."

The thieves have been transformed from career criminals into Robin Hood-type pranksters.

As the days wear on, the story takes wings.

The national media picks it up, then the international media.

The surviving burglar has become a folk hero.

Your attorney says the thief is preparing to sue you, and he'll probably win.

The media publishes reports that your home has been burglarized several times in the past and that you've been critical of local police for their lack of effort in apprehending the suspects.

After the last break-in, you told your neighbor that you would be prepared next time.

The District Attorney uses this to allege that you were lying in wait for the burglars.

A few months later, you go to trial.

The charges haven't been reduced, as your lawyer had so confidently predicted.

When you take the stand, your anger at the injustice of it all works against you..

Prosecutors paint a picture of you as a mean, vengeful man.

It doesn't take long for the jury to convict you of all charges.

The judge sentences you to life in prison.


This case really happened:

On August 22, 1999, Tony Martin of Emneth, Norfolk , England , killed one burglar and wounded a second.

In April, 2000, he was convicted and is now serving a life term.

How did it become a crime to defend one's own life in the once great British Empire?

It started with the Pistols Act of 1903.

This seemingly reasonable law forbade selling pistols to minors or felons and established that handgun sales were to be made only to those who had a license.
The Firearms Act of 1920 expanded licensing to include not only handguns but all firearms except shotguns.

Later laws passed in 1953 and 1967 outlawed the carrying of any weapon by private citizens and mandated the registration of all shotguns.

Momentum for total handgun confiscation began in earnest after the Hungerfordmass shooting in 1987.

Michael Ryan, a mentally disturbed man with a Kalashnikov rifle, walked down the streets shooting everyone he saw.

When the smoke cleared, 17 people were dead.

The British public, already de-sensitized by eighty years of "gun control", demanded even tougher restrictions. (The seizure of all privately owned handguns was the objective even though Ryan used a rifle.)

Nine years later, at Dunblane, Scotland, Thomas Hamilton used a semi-automatic weapon to murder 16 children and a teacher at a public school.

For many years, the media had portrayed all gun owners as mentally unstable, or worse, criminals.

Now the press had a real kook with which to beat up law-abiding gun owners.

Day after day, week after week, the media gave up all pretense of objectivity and demanded a total ban on all handguns.

The Dunblane Inquiry, a few months later, sealed the fate of the few sidearms still owned by private citizens.

During the years in which the British government incrementally took away most gun rights, the notion that a citizen had the right to armed self-defense came to be seen as vigilantism.

Authorities refused to grant gun licenses to people who were threatened, claiming that self-defense was no longer considered a reason to own a gun.

Citizens who shot burglars or robbers or rapists were charged while the real criminals were released.

Indeed, after the Martin shooting, a police spokesman was quoted as saying,
"We cannot have people take the law into their own hands."

All of Martin's neighbors had been robbed numerous times, and several elderly people were severely injured in beatings by young thugs who had no fear of the consequences.
Martin himself, a collector of antiques, had seen most of his collection trashed or stolen by burglars.

When the Dunblane Inquiry ended, citizens who owned handguns were given three months to turn them over to local authorities.

Being good British subjects, most people obeyed the law. The few who didn't were visited by police and threatened with ten-year prison sentences if they didn't comply.

Police later bragged that they'd taken nearly 200,000 handguns from private citizens.

How did the authorities know who had handguns?

The guns had been registered and licensed.

Kind of like cars. Sound familiar?
Actually he served 3 yrs of a max 5 yr sentence. From what I read it was not as cut in dry as it made to sound here in your post. He was convicted of murder because of their laws and him not warning the intruders. He lied about how it happened. Same thing would happen here in the US in most states if he did that.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tony_Martin_(farmer)

Last edited by firstdown; 01-16-2013 at 01:34 PM.
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Old 01-16-2013, 01:32 PM   #472
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Re: Gun Control Thread- Should we?

Thank **** for The One, we're all safe! /sarc

Obama announces 23 exective actions, asks Congress to pass gun laws



1. "Issue a presidential memorandum to require federal agencies to make relevant data available to the federal background check system."

2. "Address unnecessary legal barriers, particularly relating to the Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act, that may prevent states from making information available to the background check system."

3. "Improve incentives for states to share information with the background check system."

4. "Direct the attorney general to review categories of individuals prohibited from having a gun to make sure dangerous people are not slipping through the cracks."

5. "Propose rulemaking to give law enforcement the ability to run a full background check on an individual before returning a seized gun."

6. "Publish a letter from ATF to federally licensed gun dealers providing guidance on how to run background checks for private sellers."

7. "Launch a national safe and responsible gun ownership campaign."

8. "Review safety standards for gun locks and gun safes (Consumer Product Safety Commission)."

9. "Issue a presidential Memorandum to require federal law enforcement to trace guns recovered in criminal investigations."

10. "Release a DOJ report analyzing information on lost and stolen guns and make it widely available to law enforcement."

11. "Nominate an ATF director."

12. "Provide law enforcement, first responders, and school officials with proper training for active shooter situations."

13. "Maximize enforcement efforts to prevent gun violence and prosecute gun crime."

14. "Issue a presidential memorandum directing the Centers for Disease Control to research the causes and prevention of gun violence."

15. "Direct the attorney general to issue a report on the availability and most effective use of new gun safety technologies and challenge the private sector to develop innovative technologies."

16. "Clarify that the Affordable Care Act does not prohibit doctors asking their patients about guns in their homes."

17. "Release a letter to health care providers clarifying that no federal law prohibits them from reporting threats of violence to law enforcement authorities."

18. "Provide incentives for schools to hire school resource officers."

19. "Develop model emergency response plans for schools, houses of worship and institutions of higher education."

20. "Release a letter to state health officials clarifying the scope of mental health services that Medicaid plans must cover."

21. "Finalize regulations clarifying essential health benefits and parity requirements within ACA exchanges."

22. "Commit to finalizing mental health parity regulations."

23. "Launch a national dialogue led by Secretaries Sebelius and Duncan on mental health."

Last edited by RedskinRat; 01-16-2013 at 01:39 PM.
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Old 01-16-2013, 01:36 PM   #473
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Re: Gun Control Thread- Should we?

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Originally Posted by firstdown View Post
Actually he served 3 yrs of a max 5 yr sentence.
For defending your family and property? I'd call that a travesty.

Quote:
Originally Posted by firstdown View Post
From what I read it was not as cut in dry as it made to sound here in your post.
FD, I'd be interested in any links to the case you have. I just posted from a clearly pro-gun site. Everything I heard from friends still living in the U.K. made it sound like a state scapegoating of a gun owner for the further cowing of any remaining gun ownership.
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Old 01-16-2013, 01:50 PM   #474
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Re: Gun Control Thread- Should we?

Quote:
Originally Posted by RedskinRat View Post
Thank **** for The One, we're all safe! /sarc

Obama announces 23 exective actions, asks Congress to pass gun laws



1. "Issue a presidential memorandum to require federal agencies to make relevant data available to the federal background check system."

2. "Address unnecessary legal barriers, particularly relating to the Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act, that may prevent states from making information available to the background check system."

3. "Improve incentives for states to share information with the background check system."

4. "Direct the attorney general to review categories of individuals prohibited from having a gun to make sure dangerous people are not slipping through the cracks."

5. "Propose rulemaking to give law enforcement the ability to run a full background check on an individual before returning a seized gun."

6. "Publish a letter from ATF to federally licensed gun dealers providing guidance on how to run background checks for private sellers."

7. "Launch a national safe and responsible gun ownership campaign."

8. "Review safety standards for gun locks and gun safes (Consumer Product Safety Commission)."

9. "Issue a presidential Memorandum to require federal law enforcement to trace guns recovered in criminal investigations."

10. "Release a DOJ report analyzing information on lost and stolen guns and make it widely available to law enforcement."

11. "Nominate an ATF director."

12. "Provide law enforcement, first responders, and school officials with proper training for active shooter situations."

13. "Maximize enforcement efforts to prevent gun violence and prosecute gun crime."

14. "Issue a presidential memorandum directing the Centers for Disease Control to research the causes and prevention of gun violence."

15. "Direct the attorney general to issue a report on the availability and most effective use of new gun safety technologies and challenge the private sector to develop innovative technologies."

16. "Clarify that the Affordable Care Act does not prohibit doctors asking their patients about guns in their homes."

17. "Release a letter to health care providers clarifying that no federal law prohibits them from reporting threats of violence to law enforcement authorities."

18. "Provide incentives for schools to hire school resource officers."

19. "Develop model emergency response plans for schools, houses of worship and institutions of higher education."

20. "Release a letter to state health officials clarifying the scope of mental health services that Medicaid plans must cover."

21. "Finalize regulations clarifying essential health benefits and parity requirements within ACA exchanges."

22. "Commit to finalizing mental health parity regulations."

23. "Launch a national dialogue led by Secretaries Sebelius and Duncan on mental health."
RR. What are your actual concern with these changes? To me, this seems to really harp on background checks and making sure that people buying guns are permitted to have guns and to look at the mental health of people buying guns. Isn't that something both sides agreed on?
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Old 01-16-2013, 02:03 PM   #475
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Re: Gun Control Thread- Should we?

Doctors are being deputized.....thats nice.
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Old 01-16-2013, 02:24 PM   #476
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Re: Gun Control Thread- Should we?

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Originally Posted by Daseal View Post
RR. What are your actual concern with these changes? To me, this seems to really harp on background checks and making sure that people buying guns are permitted to have guns and to look at the mental health of people buying guns. Isn't that something both sides agreed on?
He's done **** all, that's my problem. We already have shit in place, WTF difference is going to be made by more bureaucracy?

Absolute hot air session and nothing more. It can be summed up by the words 'DO OUR JOB'.

Last edited by RedskinRat; 01-16-2013 at 02:34 PM.
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Old 01-16-2013, 02:39 PM   #477
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Re: Gun Control Thread- Should we?

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For defending your family and property? I'd call that a travesty.



FD, I'd be interested in any links to the case you have. I just posted from a clearly pro-gun site. Everything I heard from friends still living in the U.K. made it sound like a state scapegoating of a gun owner for the further cowing of any remaining gun ownership.
I gave a link. Sorry but the minute I read your post from that site I knew there was more to the story. He guy had lost his right to own a gun because he had shot at other unarmed people before this happened. He claimed to be up satairs when he shot the intruders and evidence showed he shot them from down stairs. I think if he beat them with a bat he could have also faced the same type of charges from reading more on what happened.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tony_Martin_(farmer)
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Old 01-16-2013, 02:54 PM   #478
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Re: Gun Control Thread- Should we?

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I gave a link. Sorry but the minute I read your post from that site I knew there was more to the story. He guy had lost his right to own a gun because he had shot at other unarmed people before this happened. He claimed to be up satairs when he shot the intruders and evidence showed he shot them from down stairs. I think if he beat them with a bat he could have also faced the same type of charges from reading more on what happened.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tony_Martin_(farmer)
Poor, innocent youths.......:

On 10 January 2000, Fearon and Darren Bark, both admitted to conspiring to burgle Martin's farmhouse. Fearon was sentenced to three years in prison, and Bark to 30 months (with an additional 12 months arising from previous offences). Fearon was released on 10 August 2001. Fred Barras, the dead youth, had accumulated a lengthy criminal record, having been arrested 29 times by the time of his death at the age of 16, and had been sentenced to two months in a young offenders' institution for assaulting a policeman, theft and being drunk and disorderly. On the night he was killed, the teenager had just been released on bail after being accused of stealing garden furniture.

This should act as a warning to those who hope we can use medical judgment to limit firearms:

In October 2001, during the appeal.....the defence also submitted evidence that Martin was diagnosed with paranoid personality disorder exacerbated by depression and that his paranoia was specifically directed at anyone intruding into his home.

You'll see this over and over here in the U.S.. Hindsight and post-victim finger-pointing, how's that going to help?

Last edited by RedskinRat; 01-16-2013 at 03:01 PM.
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Old 01-16-2013, 03:01 PM   #479
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Re: Gun Control Thread- Should we?

FD, this is a more even telling of the Martin story:


THE TONY MARTIN STORY


It should be viewed as a blueprint for what we can expect here, when people have no legal recourse to protect themselves.
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Old 01-16-2013, 07:01 PM   #480
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Re: Gun Control Thread- Should we?

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Done deal.Maryland next

New York passes nation's toughest gun control law | NJ.com

York state enacted the nation's toughest gun restrictions today and the first since the Connecticut school massacre, including an expanded assault-weapon ban and background checks for buying ammunition.
Democratic Gov. Andrew Cuomo signed the measure into law less than an hour after it won final passage in the Legislature, with supporters hailing it as a model for the nation and gun-rights activists condemning it as a knee-jerk piece of legislation that won't make anyone safer and is too extreme to win support in the rest of the country.
"Common sense can win," Cuomo said. "You can overpower the extremists with intelligence and with reason and with common sense."
Full. Retard. Cuomo's gun control bill, and your post.

Look at the actual bill. LINK The first idiocy found: Page 22. Starting at line 6. Bold mine, though the whole paragraph is horrible.

"265.01-b Criminal_possession of a firearm. A person is guilty of criminal possession of a firearm when he or she: (1) possesses any firearm or; (2) lawfully possesses a firearm prior to the effective date of the chapter of the laws of two thousand thirteen which added this section subject to the registration requirements of subdivision sixteen-a of section 400.00 of this chapter and knowingly fails to register such firearm pursuant to such subdivision.

Criminal possession of a firearm is a Class E felony."

If the Second Amendment's still in existence, and there's any common sense and respect for the law, this law gets completely thrown out in the first court case.

At this point I'm not expecting the president's "proposals" to be any smarter or effective.

edit: Looking here (LINK) and here (LINK) to look for context after seeing there's no outrage over the quote I listed elsewhere on the web. And there's even more stringent weapon control in 265.01 at the second link... It doesn't seem like the above refers to just persons committing other crimes. The language suggests an out-right ban, yet if so 265.01 would already outlaw many weapons and non-weapons. What am I missing here?

Last edited by HailGreen28; 01-16-2013 at 11:06 PM.
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