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All things Middle East related

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Old 08-21-2014, 04:40 PM   #256
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Re: All things Middle East related

U.S. military announces 14 airstrikes in Iraq following James Foley execution - The Washington Post


I guess the US is going to put these assholes in check.
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Old 08-21-2014, 04:46 PM   #257
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Re: All things Middle East related

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Originally Posted by CRedskinsRule View Post
For the record, anti-palestinian genocide has been going on since old testament times, and Israel continues it today with US help......
I hate the moral equalization of Christians/Jews to Muslims as it relates to the violence of the 20th & 21st centuries....based on Bible quotes from the Old Testament. That was THOUSANDS of years ago and the Israelites were struggling for survival in a very violent world....in which BTW they were subjugated for a significant amount of time by Egypt, Babylon, Rome, etc.

Please cite examples of Christian or Jewish organizations (not an individual whacko) that have carried out murder/execution/rape/beheadings/etc. on a systematic basis against Muslims within the last 50 years.

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There is no correct side in that land
Yes there is, the side that is simply fighting for their existence, not the side that kidnaps and murders schoolboys and indiscriminately launches rockets into civilian cities. Israel uses very targeted airstrikes to avoid civilian casualties, they call cell phones and alert people to leave, they then fire a dummy "soft" bomb that lets the people in the target know a strike is imminent, and then they finally strike. It is Hamas (aligned with the Muslim Brotherhood) who puts weapons/facilities amongst Palestinian civilians. THERE IS IN NO WAY, SHAPE, OR FORM MORAL EQUIVALENCE BETWEEN ISRAEL AND HAMAS.

What if you and your family had to hit the bomb shelter multiple times per day....despite doing nothing but trying to LIVE and knowing your country had given in to almost every demand from the folks lobbing rockets at you? Would the folks showering rockets down on you and your family have moral equivalence to you?

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yet the US is up in arms because one video of a man was beheaded?
Some of us were up in arms long before this happened because we're aware of the threat violent fundamentalist Muslims pose to all of us in the U.S. Christian, Jew, Agnostic, White, Black, Hispanic, Asian, everyone. How do you think these animals treat women? A quick Google search on FGM is a start.
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Old 08-21-2014, 05:20 PM   #258
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Re: All things Middle East related

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Originally Posted by Slingin Sammy 33 View Post
I hate the moral equalization of Christians/Jews to Muslims as it relates to the violence of the 20th & 21st centuries....based on Bible quotes from the Old Testament. That was THOUSANDS of years ago and the Israelites were struggling for survival in a very violent world....in which BTW they were subjugated for a significant amount of time by Egypt, Babylon, Rome, etc.

Please cite examples of Christian or Jewish organizations (not an individual whacko) that have carried out murder/execution/rape/beheadings/etc. on a systematic basis against Muslims within the last 50 years.

Yes there is, the side that is simply fighting for their existence, not the side that kidnaps and murders schoolboys and indiscriminately launches rockets into civilian cities. Israel uses very targeted airstrikes to avoid civilian casualties, they call cell phones and alert people to leave, they then fire a dummy "soft" bomb that lets the people in the target know a strike is imminent, and then they finally strike. It is Hamas (aligned with the Muslim Brotherhood) who puts weapons/facilities amongst Palestinian civilians. THERE IS IN NO WAY, SHAPE, OR FORM MORAL EQUIVALENCE BETWEEN ISRAEL AND HAMAS.

What if you and your family had to hit the bomb shelter multiple times per day....despite doing nothing but trying to LIVE and knowing your country had given in to almost every demand from the folks lobbing rockets at you? Would the folks showering rockets down on you and your family have moral equivalence to you?

Some of us were up in arms long before this happened because we're aware of the threat violent fundamentalist Muslims pose to all of us in the U.S. Christian, Jew, Agnostic, White, Black, Hispanic, Asian, everyone. How do you think these animals treat women? A quick Google search on FGM is a start.
hundreds of Palestinians have been killed by indiscriminate airstrikes of the IDF. Thousands more wounded. Many innocent children and women killed while in refuge. How many Israeli's have lost there lives in the ongoing rocket attacks? How many innocents? I'll let you look it up and see if you are willing to post the comparison numbers, and still say there is no moral equivalence. I will go further, what Israel has done to the inhabitants of the Gaza Strip is as bad as what the Nazi's did to the Jews. Mass exterminations are mass exterminations. Just because a bomb falls from a fighter jet doesn't make the death the child suffers any less brutal than the beheading of the reporter.

I said it earlier, the Gaza strip can be compared to the land bordered by DC, Baltimore, Route 29 to the north, Route 295 to the south. (139 sq. miles for the record) Baltimore has a population of 600K approx. same with DC, the Gaza Strip has a population of 1.8 Million. Imagine dropping bombs from the air everyday over that stretch of land, with the population of DC, Baltimore, and a clone of Baltimore. Further, imagine setting up blockades, and closing all borders and making those 1.8 million people live only off of the land between DC and Baltimore, or else allowing things only at your whim. Imagine if the inhabitants of Philadelphia set up air defenses, had huge military outposts to prevent you from leaving that small area that is your home. Imagine that the leaders of Philly could strike you with impunity because they had NY keeping the rest of the world away. You might feel the need to launch rockets, even if futile. You might dig tunnels or do whatever you can to get rid of those Philly SOB's.

Just because it's not one man taking another man's life makes it no less brutal. Just because you don't see the bombs tearing at a child's chest or a father or mother's arms makes it no less real to those who are living under the fear.

I hate how people defend Israel and disregard their fundamental beliefs (and the actions of slaughter of the palestinians that flows from it) while yet call the islamists who are slaughtering far fewer people by tally for the same basic beliefs held by Israeli's.
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Old 08-21-2014, 05:53 PM   #259
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Re: All things Middle East related

My problem is the way Israel behaves when they're not fighting.

People seem to ignore (or at least I don't hear them ever mention it) what it is that makes Hamas behave the way it does. Israel has pushed them into a corner and has complete control over what enters and exist their land and has done a lot to create this situation.

Which is not to excuse what Hamas does, it just seems like the two sides spend an awful lot of time condemning each other and completely ignoring their own role in things. The problems do not solely exist when they're shooting each other or launching rockets - the problems exist every day of every year for quite a long time.
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Old 08-21-2014, 07:01 PM   #260
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Re: All things Middle East related

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Originally Posted by Slingin Sammy 33 View Post
...

Yes there is, the side that is simply fighting for their existence, not the side that kidnaps and murders schoolboys and indiscriminately launches rockets into civilian cities. Israel uses very targeted airstrikes to avoid civilian casualties, they call cell phones and alert people to leave, they then fire a dummy "soft" bomb that lets the people in the target know a strike is imminent, and then they finally strike. ...
Hey Baltimore, we are launching concentrated airstrikes that are going to lay waste to the triangulated area of Howard/MLK Blvd and Green Street. You have 15 minutes to evacuate Md Gen Hospital, the shops, the schools, and all the housing. If you can't, then it's your fault that there are so many of you in that area (even though we have blockaded the exits). Don't worry, the first bomb is fake so just ignore it when it hits.

Keep in mind that Gaza has 3 times the population of Baltimore. Where are these people that have so been notified supposed to go. How about give them an iron dome system, and that way when the incoming missiles approach they know they are safe? Again, how many Israelis were killed by Hamas infiltrators or rockets? How many Palestinian non-combatants were killed by IDF airstrikes? How many new children have developed a life long hatred to kill the Israelis who were responsible for the deaths of their sisters or mothers? How many suicide bombers has Israeli attacks spoon fed new reasons to hate and distrust them?

You won't answer those numbers even though the deaths and wounded comparison is as simple as saying Ok Google How many deaths in Gaza from Israeli air strikes, and comparing that too Ok Google How many deaths in Israeli
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Old 08-21-2014, 10:14 PM   #261
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Re: All things Middle East related

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The adults that VOLUNTEERED for military service. The military isn't a social program, it's a fighting force.

So your stance is to stand back and watch tens of thousands get slaughtered/beheaded/crucified when we have the capability to stop it? If that's your stance it's disgusting.

How would you feel if IS was running rampant through NoVA and the only people that could stop them decided it "wasn't worth it" to end mass genocide.
then why aren't you in africa right now? or syria? or the ukraine? or dealing with the hidden protests in saudi arabia?

if we want to stop all the bad situations and genocides in the world, we need to adds millions of soldiers and trillions to the budget. there's already enough people talking a big game, what's your magic plan for achieving it? reinstating the draft? 80% tax rates? where's your outrage about the world's failure to contain ebola or aids or the genocide in sudan? we could stop that too, but i guess when it's happening in africa it doesn't count. you're lack of outrage makes me sick.

and the next time ISIS is rampaging down K street, please be sure to let me know.
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Old 08-21-2014, 10:21 PM   #262
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Re: All things Middle East related

SS, it's really funny that you're defending a state founded on a terrorist bombing campaign and don't understand why the people that were made homeless/landless when the brits pulled out (after the americans decided to give away their land without bothering to talk to them) might be a little peeved...

not that hamas/plo/etc etc are in any way blameless, but they aren't exactly well treated 1st first world citizens in the tiny plot of land they've been relegated to.
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Old 08-21-2014, 10:39 PM   #263
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Re: All things Middle East related

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hundreds of Palestinians have been killed by indiscriminate airstrikes of the IDF. Thousands more wounded. Many innocent children and women killed while in refuge. How many Israeli's have lost there lives in the ongoing rocket attacks? How many innocents? I'll let you look it up and see if you are willing to post the comparison numbers, and still say there is no moral equivalence. I will go further, what Israel has done to the inhabitants of the Gaza Strip is as bad as what the Nazi's did to the Jews. Mass exterminations are mass exterminations. Just because a bomb falls from a fighter jet doesn't make the death the child suffers any less brutal than the beheading of the reporter.
As I already stated, the Israeli airstrikes are not "indiscriminate", they are as precise as our own. The Palestinian people's deaths are attributable to Hamas and the other Muslim terrorist organizations that know they cannot defeat Israel in a war, so they put innocent Palestinians in danger.... strategically and purposefully.

You are so far off-base claiming "what Israel has done to the inhabitants of the Gaza Strip is as bad as what the Nazi's did to the Jews." This is incredibly disrespectful to the memories of those butchered in the Holocaust and those that lost their lives fighting for their freedom. A quick search through wiki shows a hell of a lot of terrorist attacks on Israeli civilians and an Israeli response. There are thousands killed on both sides of the conflict, but I sure a hell didn't find anywhere that Israelis were sending millions of Palestinians to concentration camps and ovens.

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I said it earlier, the Gaza strip can be compared to the land bordered by DC, Baltimore, Route 29 to the north, Route 295 to the south. (139 sq. miles for the record) Baltimore has a population of 600K approx. same with DC, the Gaza Strip has a population of 1.8 Million. Imagine dropping bombs from the air everyday over that stretch of land, with the population of DC, Baltimore, and a clone of Baltimore. Further, imagine setting up blockades, and closing all borders and making those 1.8 million people live only off of the land between DC and Baltimore, or else allowing things only at your whim. Imagine if the inhabitants of Philadelphia set up air defenses, had huge military outposts to prevent you from leaving that small area that is your home. Imagine that the leaders of Philly could strike you with impunity because they had NY keeping the rest of the world away. You might feel the need to launch rockets, even if futile. You might dig tunnels or do whatever you can to get rid of those Philly SOB's.

Just because it's not one man taking another man's life makes it no less brutal. Just because you don't see the bombs tearing at a child's chest or a father or mother's arms makes it no less real to those who are living under the fear.
Hold on, the Israelis don't stop Palestinians from leaving Gaza, there is a border with Egypt that isn't controlled by Israel. The Israelis are protecting themselves from groups within Gaza (again Hamas, etc.) that want to "wipe them off the face of the earth" and liken them to "apes and pigs".

In 2005 Israel pulled out of Gaza and allowed them self rule. They also have provided means to build a successful society, but Hamas and other outsiders, hell bent on Israel's destruction, buy rockets, build tunnels with tons & tons of concrete, and the leaders skim millions for themselves. Israel and the U.S. have pumped billions of dollars into supporting the Palestinian people in Gaza.

Quote:
I hate how people defend Israel and disregard their fundamental beliefs (and the actions of slaughter of the palestinians that flows from it) while yet call the islamists who are slaughtering far fewer people by tally for the same basic beliefs held by Israeli's.
I strongly suggest you read up on the history of this conflict.
Anti-Semitic History Is Greatest Obstacle to Peace for Israel, Palestinians - US News

The Palestinians have been offered everything they've wanted and more....all they have to do is accept Israel's right to EXIST....and they won't.

Since 1947 approximately 46K Muslim-Arab deaths are attributed to the conflict with Israel. 11,000 of these were during Israel's War of Independence. Since 1950, just in the Middle East, Muslims have killed over 1.65M other Muslims.
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Old 08-21-2014, 11:13 PM   #264
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Re: All things Middle East related

And yet you still have not said how many deaths and wounded each on the two sides in the past 2 months of this onslaught. You spout us/Israeli lines like they are manna from heaven but the reality on the ground is that thousands of Palestinians have been wounded maimed and killed in these past weeks. If you think that they should just up and leave their homes and go to Egypt that is the height naivety. If your home was attacked would you just up and leave or would you support those who are fighting to protect it.
Why should they accept Israels right to exist? I ask in all seriousness. Did it exist before the UN decreed it? Was there a referendum of the local councils where all parties had an even stake and state and national borders were agreed to in advance? Or has the Palestinian land slowly been shrunk as Israeli control grew?

Would Israel exist as a natural state if the us withdrew its support and allowed boundaries to be re-established based on pre 1947 history?
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Old 08-22-2014, 12:17 AM   #265
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Re: All things Middle East related

part of the problem is that the previous US interventions have caused some of the current problems too.

the US and brits knocked over a democracy in iran in the 50s and installed a dictator that was willing to abuse human rights and suppress opposition and stay in power (and we supported him, where's the outrage over that, or US "pay for toture" black sites?). he got overthrown, guy we didn't like came to power (though if we stayed out in the 50s, this probably wouldn't be the case).

fast forward, being afraid of iran's growing power, we decided to give saddam billions in weapons and military command and control systems to help keep them in check. also supporting another dictator that wasn't afraid to commit genocide on his own people.

fast forward again, we spent a LOT more money removing those weapons and systems to put a sectarian leader in place that spent a lot of time removing sunni voices from power... and now you've got an ISIS army formed in syria's war that's gained a lot of traction due to Nouri al-Maliki's actions.

it's kind of like 2 steps forward, 3 steps back. and every time americans hit the ground, jihadii's from far and wide start flooding in to get their shots off. we're like a magnet for chaos. and we're doing it with your kids money too, cause none of this has been paid for yet.
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Old 08-22-2014, 08:32 AM   #266
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Re: All things Middle East related

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As I already stated, the Israeli airstrikes are not "indiscriminate", they are as precise as our own.
Is that why Israel used cluster bombs for the longest while?





Precise my ass.
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Old 08-22-2014, 09:15 AM   #267
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Re: All things Middle East related

you know smart bombs are only smart 40-60% of the time right?

despite the popular misconception, "smart" weapons miss all the time. like when we had 300+ taliban prisoners in afghanistan that broke lose and were hiding in a single building inside a palace (old fortress) compound. 6 airstrikes later, their single building was fine, but we managed to blow up a kurdish tank and a bunch of kurds in the attempt.

Battle of Qala-i-Jangi - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


there are literally a million other examples. in armed conflicts, the wrong people get dead quite regularly. bad intel, miscommunication, ordinance landing off target. s#$% happens.


also if you had done any research, you'd know that egypt closed their border with palestine for over a year, and before that it was only open for 4 hours a day and only letting in 500-1000 a day max. so that's not a valid option.
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Old 08-22-2014, 09:40 AM   #268
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Re: All things Middle East related

kinda shocked how people are anti israel in this latest escalation. Hamas senior official just yesterday confirmed that someone in their orgainization kidnapped these 3 boys and killed them. thats what started this whole thing. Its Hamas's contining inability to hold their own accountable and bring them to justice when they break obvious laws that perpetuates this stuff. Yeah but go ahead and blame the israel
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Old 08-22-2014, 10:15 AM   #269
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Re: All things Middle East related

3 dead equals justification for wholesale destruction, since SS33 doesn't want to seem to put up the numbers here are the latest reports (I doubt they are exact, but the enormity of the scale is clearly represented).
Gaza residents dead 2050+, 550+ of whom are children, approx 350 women and seniors.(Come on, Grampa you should have moved your wheelchair faster). So if as SS33 proclaims, these are super accurate missiles, only hitting the targets of Israeli vengeance, then Israel has purposefully killed nearly 900 non combatants in response to 3 dead teens. I think the world should be outraged.

As for Israeli deaths in that same time, including the 3 above, less than 64 soldiers and 6 civilians. No reported attacks have come through the "terror tunnels".

images are graphic, and not suitable for work, or really for any civilized nation to abide by:
https://www.google.com/search?q=gaza...w=1067&bih=511

Not to mention reportedly 2Billion dollars worth of infrastructure damage, that will take 3-5 years or more to rebuild, just so Israel can destroy it again, as it has done twice this century already.
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Old 08-22-2014, 10:44 AM   #270
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Re: All things Middle East related

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3 dead equals justification for wholesale destruction, since SS33 doesn't want to seem to put up the numbers here are the latest reports (I doubt they are exact, but the enormity of the scale is clearly represented).
Gaza residents dead 2050+, 550+ of whom are children, approx 350 women and seniors.(Come on, Grampa you should have moved your wheelchair faster). So if as SS33 proclaims, these are super accurate missiles, only hitting the targets of Israeli vengeance, then Israel has purposefully killed nearly 900 non combatants in response to 3 dead teens. I think the world should be outraged.

As for Israeli deaths in that same time, including the 3 above, less than 64 soldiers and 6 civilians. No reported attacks have come through the "terror tunnels".

images are graphic, and not suitable for work, or really for any civilized nation to abide by:
https://www.google.com/search?q=gaza...w=1067&bih=511

Not to mention reportedly 2Billion dollars worth of infrastructure damage, that will take 3-5 years or more to rebuild, just so Israel can destroy it again, as it has done twice this century already.
What about the illegal tunnels dug into israel to transport terriost, weapons, etc? Not to mention the rocket attacks which routinely break ceasefire.

Its the principal of accountability. You know what Hamas should have done was arrest the kidnap (cough, killers) hand them over for a proper trial. All this could have been avoided.

Hamas could have said no we are not in the business of killing children for political gain.

Sorry, there is no excuse.
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