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![]() | #166 | |
Special Teams Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 446
| Re: The Obama Years- A GOP love story Quote:
So, basically, you think we should be doing exactly what we're probably doing. If we're not doing it, there's certainly no evidence that we're not and there ideally never would be until well after the issue is over. | |
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![]() | #167 |
Living Legend ![]() Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Pasadena, Md Age: 50
Posts: 15,723
| Re: The Obama Years- A GOP love story No I didn't say that at all. The president was at fund raisers tonight and still hadn't commented on the plane being shot down. We are not advocating UN peacekeepers, which I think should atleast be in the discussion, and we are not putting any (real) pressure on Putin to change his tactics. We also aren't taking a leading role in denouncing the russian occupation of Crimea, nor are we assisting with meaningful defensive assistance a government in Kiev that has staked its future on a strong relationship with us. Because I don't sit in on national intelligence briefs I can't speak with any specificity of how some of these steps would happen, but I can certainly tell you that we are not publicly and repeatedly denouncing the Crimean debacle, that the House has not pushed forward an appropriations bill funding defensive weapons sales to Kiev(nor has the president sought one) and by Putin's actions you can infer that we are not putting pressure on any points that he respects or would cause him to cease and desist with his realpolitik approach to international rules and laws.
__________________ Dirtbag59, sending songs to oblivion 1 writer at a time. |
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![]() | #168 | |
Pro Bowl Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 6,953
| Re: The Obama Years- A GOP love story Quote:
Not true I heard a comment from him about 2:40 pm driving home yesterday (99.1 wnew)
__________________ ....DISCLAIMER: All of my posts/threads are my expressed typed opinion and the reader is not to assume these comments are absolute fact, law, or truth unless otherwise stated in said post/thread. | |
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![]() | #169 | |
Special Teams Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 446
| Re: The Obama Years- A GOP love story Quote:
![]() He has spoken to the issue. The idea that being at a fundraiser is bad suggests there's some other actionable thing he should be doing - what is that? The UN announced yesterday they're having an emergency meeting today, presumably to discuss many options including putting peace keepers in. So, again, I'm not sure what more it is that should be done at this point. I'm not sure what it is people want us to do about Ukraine and Russia. People keep saying they want *something* done but they lack specifics. I get that this administration is borderline worst in history when it comes to foreign policy (at this point at least) and that it's really easy to lump it all together and decry the admin for it. But in this specific case - a commercial airliner is shot down - what is it that should be done? You'd think all the people being so highly critical of the issue would have an answer for that... but they don't. We don't even have any proof (publicly) of who did it yet... | |
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![]() | #170 |
Living Legend Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 19,815
| Re: The Obama Years- A GOP love story Thank you for saying "sit on your hands" the Obama doctrine. |
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![]() | #171 |
Special Teams Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 446
| Re: The Obama Years- A GOP love story |
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![]() | #172 | ||
Living Legend ![]() Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Pasadena, Md Age: 50
Posts: 15,723
| Re: The Obama Years- A GOP love story Quote:
Perhaps, just perhaps, the President could have held a national telecast, instead of a fundraiser, and brought the shooting of a civilian aircraft, operating along a known civilian route, under the shining light of US auspices, or discussed how that act brings a new and dangerous dimension to the fight in Ukraine. He could have highlighted the peaceful election and the high percentage support for the new Kiev government and directly call on the separatists to lay down their arms and meet with Kiev. He could have been working with Merkel, and the other European national leaders, to craft a proposal that would entice the separatists to the table, or crafting a UN resolution to create a UN sponsored peace talks under UN auspices. All of this is to say that there are specific and substantive acts that a US President can, and should, take when a hostile force attacks a civilian aircraft with reckless abandon, and these acts should be immediate, obvious, and carry the full weight and stature of the office of the President and the power and force of the US world status. Instead, this President chose to release a meaningless release saying we don't even know if any US citizens were on board (so the other 270 or so human beings aren't important?, or the free and safe passage of civilian airlines aren't important), and attend a fundraiser that does nothing to unite the nation, or bring this to the nation as a whole under the seal of the President of the United States of America. It's easy to do nothing (hell I try and get away with it every day LOL) and it's safer to sit back and offer platitudes to international leaders. It's incumbent on the US President though to be a national LEADER of actions, and not a middle management zombie going through motions of a political hack. and G1- this is how CBS reported the President's statement: Quote:
__________________ Dirtbag59, sending songs to oblivion 1 writer at a time. | ||
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![]() | #173 | |
Living Legend ![]() Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Pasadena, Md Age: 50
Posts: 15,723
| Re: The Obama Years- A GOP love story going further, and I am not a Putin fan, but here is his statement to his economic advisors and published to the world: Quote:
If someone doesn't see the difference the 2 leaders statements and actions present in terms of the gravity of the situation, then I don't know that any internet words ever would.
__________________ Dirtbag59, sending songs to oblivion 1 writer at a time. | |
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![]() | #174 |
Living Legend Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 19,815
| Re: The Obama Years- A GOP love story A good start Tshile is single strong statement by the President stating those who shot down the plane will be held accountable period. Align yourself first and collect the facts. My kneejerk impression is this will be anti aircraft missle fired by separtist either on the border or on the Russian side. Because the missile was supplied by Russia they bare ultimate responsibility. And that would be the next statement by the President and then you take the facts to the EU, Nato, United nations... |
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![]() | #175 | |
Special Teams Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 446
| Re: The Obama Years- A GOP love story Quote:
It just irks me when you see criticism with no real alternative suggested, especially in a situation like this. You want UN Peace Keepers on the ground? well... they're having a meeting about that today, I honestly don't know what you or anyone else could have done differently in that regard. You want sanctions? We're already doing that... If the criticism is that he went to a fundraiser, then so be it. We have plenty of examples of other presidents doing similar things. It irked me just as much when people criticized Bush for continuing to read to the children after finding out about 9-11... it seems like shallow criticism from people without a clue as to what is actually going on in totality in that situation. As if the entire arm of military, foreign policy, and intelligence of the United States is temporarily disabled and on standby because the President went to a fundraiser; or chose to continue to read to the children. If your additional criticism is that he gave a lackluster speech on the issue, or that he missed an important opportunity to be a leader, then I get that. It's ironic... the president that's known for being a great speech maker and not much else, can't seem to make a meaningful speech when it matters ![]() I have no idea what the right response to this situation is... I'd like to see the people responsible put on trial for high crimes and put to death if found guilty, but I don't know how we can do that if Russia decides to protect them (Maybe some of them are in Russia's military/political offices???) In fact... if the interest is in punishing those responsible (assuming they were terrorists, or someone that made a mistake in the war going on in the area [on either side]) then we need Russia to cooperate and grandstanding and using this as a chance to take shots at them isn't going to help at all... But it seems like every time something like this happens we hear a lot of crowing from whatever group is opposed to the sitting president when things like this happens, when the truth is majority of the people crowing don't have a clue of what is actually going on, much less what should be going on. The idea of finding out all the facts before demanding action seems to be a lost virtue these days... it's always hurry up and do something, then criticize whatever that something is. | |
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![]() | #176 |
Living Legend Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 19,815
| Re: The Obama Years- A GOP love story Well the fact is T this may have been avoided if Obama would have lead to begin with. Reactive policy isnt the way to lead, and thats where we are at. You seen Iraq lately? the country is cut into 3 parts right now. Obama policy tends to be stand at a dam wall and plug the holes with his fingers as leaks start appearing. You think thats the right way to do things? The administration is seriously lacking a third eye...piss poor is a better discription. |
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![]() | #177 | |
Living Legend Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 19,815
| Re: The Obama Years- A GOP love story Quote:
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![]() | #178 | |
Special Teams Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 446
| Re: The Obama Years- A GOP love story Quote:
I'm pointing out that if it was indeed members of Russian military that did this, then the only way we're ever going to figure out who and why, and attempt to bring anyone to justice, is with the cooperation of Russia. The rest of the world leaders going on TV and finger shaming Putin isn't going to help in that cause. More sanctions isn't going to help in that cause. Any sign of military aggression (reposition of ships, troops on borders, creating and patrolling no fly zones, etc etc etc) is not going to help. In fact, I think it's reasonable to assume that those types of things are likely to shut down any real cooperation and communication between Russia and the rest of the world, resulting in not being able to conduct an investigation properly and bring people to trial. "you gotta do something..." I keep hearing that everywhere I turn... Here. Radio. TV. I don't hear much else to back it up. edit: Oh, maybe it was my 'using this to take shots' that confused what I was saying. I mean figuratively, not literally ![]() | |
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![]() | #179 | |
Special Teams Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 446
| Re: The Obama Years- A GOP love story Quote:
That's the easy conversation to have. I don't know many people that are informed on the goings-on int he world that think we've done a good job in the last 6 years. Africa is becoming a mess. The middle east is a mess. Eastern europe is a mess. Central America is a mess. Ironically enough Afghanistan is the only success and as far as I know Bush is the one that deserves credit, not Obama. Everything else is a complete disaster right now. The harder conversation to have is what do we do *now*. | |
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![]() | #180 | |
Living Legend Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 19,815
| Re: The Obama Years- A GOP love story Quote:
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