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The Obama Years- A GOP love story

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Old 12-04-2012, 02:48 PM   #1
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The Obama Years- A GOP love story

Thought I'd start a fresh thread where the Independents, Repubs, Libertarians, Green Party, Tea Party, and Democrats duke it out with politics. The current hot topic is the fiscal cliff.

GOP 'fiscal cliff' plan echoes failed budget talks - Yahoo! News

Can somebody explain to me why the GOP are dead set in raising taxes for the ultra rich? Why can't the rest of the conservative base see who they serve and elect somebody else? Haven't we heard their speil before? Taxes will kill jobs. They said the same thing during Clinton's years and guess what? They were wrong.


My guess is they'll raise the taxes on the rich, only if they add in loopholes that they can avoid this increase, thereby negating it. What is it with these assholes?

It's really simple. Close ALL (and I mean every last one) tax loopholes, let ultra rich who've bypassed taxes all these years pay a higher tax that the middle class had to cover. After about 4 years of this, drop the tax rate so that middle and upper class taxes are equal in percentage. Also, remove all corporate tax loopholes, and lower the corporate tax rate. Cut spending across the board and profit.

**** this, I'm running for President next go around. Even I can get this simple idea down.
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Old 12-05-2012, 02:17 PM   #2
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Re: The Obama Years- A GOP love story

im not against that. seems like something that should have been done before
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Old 12-05-2012, 02:23 PM   #3
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Re: The Obama Years- A GOP love story

Where's the flat tax I asked for?
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Old 12-05-2012, 02:46 PM   #4
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Re: The Obama Years- A GOP love story

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Originally Posted by firstdown View Post
The dems have said they want to raise taxes for anyone making over $250,000 a year and even you have said your against that.
No I haven't.
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Old 12-05-2012, 03:17 PM   #5
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Re: The Obama Years- A GOP love story

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That's because you don't make that much money or have 33 to 35% of your income going to pay federal taxes. That does not even include the other state, property, or sales taxes. Some making a little over $250,000 per year are paying 40 to 50% of their income into taxes. Not sure how anyone could be for that. I know several people who make over $250,000 per year and they work harder then anyon I know and earn every penny they make.
The problem I mostly have are the tax havens and loopholes the ultra rich use to avoid taxes. You have your guys like Mitt dodging taxes like a mofo and paying some stupid rate like 14% or lower (which is why he didn't show his taxes in length).

The guys making 250k aren't dodging taxes, aren't using tax loopholes. (for the most part) Personally, I would move that tax increase to 1 million and then close ALL tax loopholes. It's never going to happen though because the people voting for it are millionaires themselves.
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Old 12-05-2012, 03:27 PM   #6
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Re: The Obama Years- A GOP love story

Jon Stewart summarizes GOP budget plan: Jump off the fiscal cliff voluntarily | The Raw Story

Jon Stewart brilliant as always.
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Old 12-05-2012, 04:11 PM   #7
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Re: The Obama Years- A GOP love story

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Originally Posted by NC_Skins View Post
The problem I mostly have are the tax havens and loopholes the ultra rich use to avoid taxes. You have your guys like Mitt dodging taxes like a mofo and paying some stupid rate like 14% or lower (which is why he didn't show his taxes in length).

The guys making 250k aren't dodging taxes, aren't using tax loopholes. (for the most part) Personally, I would move that tax increase to 1 million and then close ALL tax loopholes. It's never going to happen though because the people voting for it are millionaires themselves.
Okay, ignoring the philosophical/ethical issues underpinning the pros and cons on wealth redistribution in this fashion - let's just say we do this. You don't come anwhere near closing the revenue/spending gap. It's barely a start. I haven't googled the numbers but let's just say such a move covers 30% of the revenue/spending deficit (and I think 30% is a huge overstatement).

Where's the other 70% coming from?
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Old 12-05-2012, 04:36 PM   #8
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Re: The Obama Years- A GOP love story

mitt said something like a 50k deduction limit. ending loopholes like farm subsidies for people making over 500k etc wouldn't be a terrible idea either.
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Old 12-05-2012, 05:47 PM   #9
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Re: The Obama Years- A GOP love story

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Okay, ignoring the philosophical/ethical issues underpinning the pros and cons on wealth redistribution in this fashion - let's just say we do this. You don't come anwhere near closing the revenue/spending gap. It's barely a start. I haven't googled the numbers but let's just say such a move covers 30% of the revenue/spending deficit (and I think 30% is a huge overstatement).

Where's the other 70% coming from?
There really isn't any philosophical debate on "sharing the wealth". Fact is, the rich scumbags have been dodging taxes and paying less PERCENTAGE of taxes as compared to everybody else. That's not equal. So, let those assholes eat cake for a decade(like we have) before moving the the tax rate back down EQUAL for everybody. (above poverty level) That way we can all pay the same rate and nobody has a upper advantage when it comes to taxes being paid.

More ways to save money and increase revenue.

1) Corporate taxes. No sense in corporations paying 0 taxes on 14 billion in profits. (GE) NO sense of Google paying 2% tax rate back in 2010 when they score billions. (a few examples below)
Ten giant U.S. companies avoiding income taxes: Sen. Bernie Sanders list - Lynn Sweet

A nice article here:
Majority of corporations avoid federal income taxes - study - Aug. 12, 2008

I also think they should lower the overall corporate tax, and close ALL the loopholes.


2) Subsidies to oil industry or any other corporation. I think this is self explanatory.


Also, you have to cut spending, and I'm fine with cutting spending across the board. The one interesting point to note though, infrastructure spending helps out the economy.

That's just off the top of my head. I'm sure I can (and will) think of more.
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Old 12-05-2012, 06:45 PM   #10
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Re: The Obama Years- A GOP love story

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Originally Posted by firstdown View Post
That's because you don't make that much money or have 33 to 35% of your income going to pay federal taxes. That does not even include the other state, property, or sales taxes. Some making a little over $250,000 per year are paying 40 to 50% of their income into taxes. Not sure how anyone could be for that. I know several people who make over $250,000 per year and they work harder then anyon I know and earn every penny they make.
not sure what you call good money, but i make around 100 grand a year. thats plenty for me
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Old 12-06-2012, 12:08 PM   #11
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Re: The Obama Years- A GOP love story

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First off Mitts not dodging taxes he is paying what he owes and he did not make the tax laws. You think that Obama and other Dems don't also take the deductions or pay the tax rate they owe and nothing more? I'm sure you also know that the reason people know how much Obama donated to charity last year was because it was on his taxes as a write off (your terms he was dodging paying taxes on that money). You also say people making 250k aren't taking tax deductions and I'd say your crazy. You don't take tax dedections? They are not loopholes they are tax code and anyone using them is not dodging taxes. Even the poor take tax deductions on money they didn't even pay to get a tax credit and refund even if they didn't pay taxes.

Hiding money in offshore accounts and using loopholes is dodging taxes. I didn't say they were doing anything illegal, I simply said they were dodging taxes.....and they are.

The loopholes I'm referring to are the ones not offered or afforded to the peasants.
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Old 12-06-2012, 12:17 PM   #12
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Re: The Obama Years- A GOP love story

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This is the problem. You call the rich scumbags because they work hard and pay the taxes they legally owe. So what do you call the poor who don't pay any taxes and actually receive a refund after paying nothing into the system?

I guess you also must know those Corp. profits are passed down to the stock holder and they have to pay taxes on the profits.

Why do you think that the ultra rich work hard? The majority of the Walton family didn't work hard, yet there they are ranking in the top 10 of richest people in the world. They inherited money. That dumb cunt Gina Rineheart (aussie) inherited her money. You know who does work hard? The employees that build their businesses up that make them ultra rich. I'm sick and tired of hearing how "hard" these billionaires work. It's a fallacy. Sure some may have worked their asses off to the top, but by in large it simply isn't true. They either lucked out, or inherited money.

Not all corps do dividends. The profits are need to be taxed. End of story. Are you ****ing really sitting up here saying that a company should get 14 billion in profits and not pay taxes? That's exactly what you are arguing with the point you are making when you retort with a "they give out dividends, which those people pay taxes on". Also, who cares if the dividends are taxed. If I get income, it's taxed. If I share my income with you as a gift, that money is now income for you and it's taxed. Welcome to the world of the same income being taxed multiple times. Should work the same for corporations. After all, ARE THEY NOT PEOPLE? The SCOTUS thinks so.


Wait, you want some guy who's living below the poverty level to pay taxes? Are you shitting me? I think you need to find out what living below the poverty level means and get back with me.
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Old 12-06-2012, 12:42 PM   #13
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Re: The Obama Years- A GOP love story

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So now the rich do nothing but the none working poor are the hard workers. I guess we should wait around for them to turn the economy around. LMAO

I didn't say they didn't do anything. I said I think there is this huge misconception that the ultra rich busted their asses off for their wealth. You think that Hostess CEO busted his ass to earn that 1.9 million dollar bonus he got from his company being liquidated? All the while stealing the employees pensions and not giving it back to them?


You are trying to twist what I say into it being that way in all cases. It's not. I've said as much but you choose to ignore what I'm saying. It's getting tiring having to keep explaining this to you.


It's the middle class and poor people that drive this economy, not the rich. It's the middle class and poor who buy most of the goods that cause these billionaires to get richer. (and stockholders) So yes, we do need to give back to those groups so they can in fact turn the economy around. Shows you don't grasp the fact that having few people own all the wealth isn't going to do shit for the economy. Salaries need to go up, even if that means telling some jackwagon billionaire that he can't have a second yacht.
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Old 12-06-2012, 02:11 PM   #14
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Re: The Obama Years- A GOP love story

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This conversation started with people making $250000 up and you have now changed it to the ultra rich billionaire to make your points. Sorry but the poor don't drive the economy. If they did we would have poor nations.LOL

Actually the CEO for Hostess Probably worked very hard last year if he earned that bonus is hard to say. His pay is voted on by the stock holders and I'll agree I think most are over paid.

So are you saying the very few wealthy people consume more products and goods than middle class/poor people?

So what you are saying is that 1% of the US population consumes/purchases more goods and products than 99% of the people?



http://www.whitehouse.gov/sites/defa...rt_embargo.pdf



Quote:
Consumer spending makes up roughly 70 percent of the American economy, as measured by Gross Domestic Product.

edit: I went on record saying that I though most people making that 250K were paying their taxes and not using a bunch of tax havens and loopholes to avoid taxes. I even mentioned moving that tax hike up to people who's income hit 1 million.
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Old 12-19-2012, 07:22 AM   #15
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Re: The Obama Years- A GOP love story

If anyone wants the wealthiest to just pay their fair share , you would need to tax their total wealth / assets . Most of the wealthy make under 1 million in salary .... business , real estate , inh. an estate ,ect . Under the Presidents plan, guys like Warren Buffett would not see an increase in taxes , but many small bus. owners , police ( OT ) and a number of dual income families would. taxing people on their net worth would probably work , as would a simple tax code with limited loopholes .
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