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Societal Decay - Henson Ong

Debating with the enemy


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Old 01-29-2013, 03:01 PM   #1
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Societal Decay - Henson Ong

I agree with this fellow immigrant:

Societal Decay - Henson Ong

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Old 01-29-2013, 08:28 PM   #2
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Re: Societal Decay - Henson Ong

Great speech. Cut short by the politician "please wrap it up", lol.


Thomas Jefferson: "The beauty of the Second Amendment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it."

Thomas Jefferson - No freeman shall ever be debarred the use of arms. - Proposed Virginia Constitution, June, 1776.
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Old 01-29-2013, 08:38 PM   #3
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Keep citing stuff thats hundreds of years old.

Things change. The world changes.
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Old 01-29-2013, 08:43 PM   #4
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Like of the comments said the capacity and availability of guns is what has changed. Societal decay is a cop out. Its always easier to blame abstract qualitative things than look at fact
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Old 01-29-2013, 08:49 PM   #5
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Also is a new thread really necessary?
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Old 01-29-2013, 09:42 PM   #6
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Quote:
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Like of the comments said the capacity and availability of guns is what has changed. Societal decay is a cop out. Its always easier to blame abstract qualitative things than look at fact
Yes, we have more guns and demonstrably less violence.
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Old 01-30-2013, 09:08 AM   #7
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Re: Societal Decay - Henson Ong

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Also is a new thread really necessary?
Maxed out your hard drive did it?
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Old 01-30-2013, 09:40 AM   #8
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Re: Societal Decay - Henson Ong

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Yes, we have more guns and demonstrably less violence.
yes, that's why we're #10 on gun deaths per capita at 10.2/100,000 and england is nearly last with 0.25/100,000.

so, the country with restrictive gun laws has 1 gun death per 400,000 people and the US has 1 per 10,000. our increased supply of guns apparently makes us safer (??) by killing 4,000% more people per year.

I love flawed logic. it's great.
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Old 01-30-2013, 10:14 AM   #9
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Re: Societal Decay - Henson Ong

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yes, that's why we're #10 on gun deaths per capita at 10.2/100,000 and england is nearly last with 0.25/100,000.

so, the country with restrictive gun laws has 1 gun death per 400,000 people and the US has 1 per 10,000. our increased supply of guns apparently makes us safer (??) by killing 4,000% more people per year.

I love flawed logic. it's great.
I didn't say 'gun deaths', I said 'violence'.
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Old 01-30-2013, 11:03 AM   #10
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Re: Societal Decay - Henson Ong

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Keep citing stuff thats hundreds of years old.

Things change. The world changes.
As far as gun violence goes, try about fifty or so, when we didn't have the same kind of problems we have today. As far as principle goes, some principles don't change. Like equality, free speech, independence, and responsibility.
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Old 01-30-2013, 11:35 AM   #11
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Re: Societal Decay - Henson Ong

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Originally Posted by HailGreen28 View Post
As far as gun violence goes, try about fifty or so, when we didn't have the same kind of problems we have today. As far as principle goes, some principles don't change. Like equality, free speech, independence, and responsibility.
It's similar to the irrational argument that 'it was written when we only had muskets, so you can have as many muskets as you want' (Jon Stewart, I think). What does the Government come to my home armed with? I want that. That's the point of the 2nd Amendment, to protect us from a despotic Government.
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Old 01-30-2013, 11:47 AM   #12
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Re: Societal Decay - Henson Ong

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I don't have the time to look it up there are also countries that have way more guns per person then the US and have very little to no gun violence. There are also countries that ban guns and have a high gun violence. I'll look for the article I read about that and post when I get a chance.
Switzerland has the third highest rate of ownership (due to their militia) and one of the lowest rates of gun crime, due to their responsible citizenry.



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Old 01-30-2013, 12:20 PM   #13
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Re: Societal Decay - Henson Ong

switzerland isn't close to the "lowest" they have 3.8 deaths per capita, ~40% of the US total, and about 1600% more than the UK.

I'd also argue that gun deaths are a kind gun violence. I wonder how armed robbery and armed rape stack up vs other countries...
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Old 01-30-2013, 12:22 PM   #14
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Re: Societal Decay - Henson Ong

and btw, homicides don't cover gun deaths. suicides are almost 2:1 vs homicides for deaths, with some accidents or unknowns thrown in for measure.

and some of the horrible countries for homicides on that list report ALL gun deaths as homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidents, so some of the data may be a bit inaccurate from those places.
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Old 01-30-2013, 12:24 PM   #15
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Re: Societal Decay - Henson Ong

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Originally Posted by RedskinRat View Post
Switzerland has the third highest rate of ownership (due to their militia) and one of the lowest rates of gun crime, due to their responsible citizenry.



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Please take a look at my post about Switzerland in the other thread. Switzerland has extremely high gun ownership, but it is almost impossible to buy ammunition. You can buy ammunition at the shooting range but it must be used while there and cannot be taken home. Secondly, if there is some sort of conflict, you can go to the armory and they will sign ammunition over to you for war purposes. It used to be they let people keep X amount in their home, but it was audited yearly to ensure it hadn't been used. They have since changed that.

Also, your scatter graph is gun homocides. Which by definition does not include accidental deaths or suicides. Perhaps may not even count unsolved crimes.
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