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Pics For Sharing & Debating

Debating with the enemy


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Old 06-16-2013, 12:00 PM   #241
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Re: Pics For Sharing & Debating

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Not me. You underestimate the threats to our young country when Franklin said those words. They were not threats of terrorism from Afghanistan, of course, but the early USA was vulnerable in terms of security. We had no navy to repel invasion and a dysfunctional army, as the Whiskey Rebellion briefly showed.

Plus, just because Franklin was not President does not make his words prima facie untrue, as you have implied. A person can say things which are true even if they don't "have the weight of the world on their shoulders."

.

The pictures compared the two ,I'm saying you can't .The Men are in two very different situations and two very different times. Since Franklin was or is not President in his time or this one his words are merely his opinion .....not fact .
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Old 06-16-2013, 12:04 PM   #242
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Re: Pics For Sharing & Debating

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Yep! (But I'm not an Obama supporter, just a heads up)
...understood, not asking for people to support but understand people are trying to do their best .What was good in 1776 might not be the same now .
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Old 06-16-2013, 12:07 PM   #243
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Re: Pics For Sharing & Debating

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Question , how many people were in this country when Ben was President and said that , think real hard about that .









Good for you , I knew you would get it . Ben never ran a country ,he could say what ever he wanted without consequence .You might want to admit times are just a tad different now from back then .
What the hell are you talking about? Franklin was one of the most famous figures of his time. What he said had resonance among the public and political figures. Whether he ran things on the federal level was irrelevant. He was constantly in the fold and a part of the decisionmaking process for most historical, political or policy events of the era. The man was also the president of Pennsylvania, so he had some understanding of the requirements of governance.

What's more, Franklin had one of the first newspapers in American history; he wasn't spreading none sense without consequence. The reason why that saying remains salient today is because people actually believed in its message, and still do.
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Old 06-16-2013, 12:34 PM   #244
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Re: Pics For Sharing & Debating

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The pictures compared the two ,I'm saying you can't .The Men are in two very different situations and two very different times. Since Franklin was or is not President in his time or this one his words are merely his opinion .....not fact .
Of course times are different. That doesn't make what was said earlier wrong.

But the most troubling part of your post is the bolded part. Your logic, in your words, is that a President speaks words which are "fact", everyone else speaks words which are merely "opinion." Are you sure about that? That means that neither Nixon nor Clinton did anything wrong, since their claims of innocence were "facts" while their accusers only had "opinions."
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Old 06-16-2013, 04:01 PM   #245
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Re: Pics For Sharing & Debating

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Originally Posted by Lotus View Post
Not me. You underestimate the threats to our young country when Franklin said those words. They were not threats of terrorism from Afghanistan, of course, but the early USA was vulnerable in terms of security. We had no navy to repel invasion and a dysfunctional army, as the Whiskey Rebellion briefly showed.

Plus, just because Franklin was not President does not make his words prima facie untrue, as you have implied. A person can say things which are true even if they don't "have the weight of the world on their shoulders."

Franklin's words still apply. It is sad that some of my fellow Americans do not see this.
It IS indeed......
Times change...principles do not. Or....should not.
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Old 06-16-2013, 04:06 PM   #246
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Re: Pics For Sharing & Debating

If anyone was looking for signs of the Apocalypse, then the concord between Lotus and I should be enough to unnerve anyone.

I am concerned that GiantOne has the same voting rights and representation as others on this forum yet continues to display an abject abeyance of intellect on so many topics.

This can't be Tomfooolery and Shenanigans as your past posting prove you're not that funny. Are you just here as a Giants ploy to lower the average IQ of the best Redskins site on the Interwebs, GiantOne? Confess!
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Old 06-17-2013, 10:37 AM   #247
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Re: Pics For Sharing & Debating

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Of course times are different. That doesn't make what was said earlier wrong.

But the most troubling part of your post is the bolded part. Your logic, in your words, is that a President speaks words which are "fact", everyone else speaks words which are merely "opinion." Are you sure about that? That means that neither Nixon nor Clinton did anything wrong, since their claims of innocence were "facts" while their accusers only had "opinions."

LOL , hope you didn't pull a muscle while stretching your interpretation of what I said. So you disagree that when a President speaks his words are question examine more closely or carry more weight then another citizen ?
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Old 06-17-2013, 10:43 AM   #248
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Re: Pics For Sharing & Debating

[QUOTE=Lotus;1012184]Of course times are different. That doesn't make what was said earlier wrong.

QUOTE]


Wrong, maybe not for his time but as I have said before you can not compare the two and that's what I was discussing .
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Old 06-17-2013, 10:45 AM   #249
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Re: Pics For Sharing & Debating

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Originally Posted by RedskinRat View Post
.

This can't be Tomfooolery and Shenanigans as your past posting prove you're not that funny. Are you just here as a Giants ploy to lower the average IQ of the best Redskins site on the Interwebs,!
No , you pretty much have taken care of that.

So much for the debating part or discussion .
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Last edited by Giantone; 06-17-2013 at 11:04 AM.
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Old 06-17-2013, 11:05 AM   #250
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Re: Pics For Sharing & Debating

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LOL , hope you didn't pull a muscle while stretching your interpretation of what I said. So you disagree that when a President speaks his words are question examine more closely or carry more weight then another citizen ?
I didn't stretch anything. You made a truth claim above. You said when a President speaks, he speaks "fact," whereas when anyone else speaks, they speak only "opinion." Those are your words, not mine.

And your claim is patently false. Presidents offer "opinions," even "untruths," all the time. And non-Presidents offer "facts" all the time.

Ben Franklin still has wise words. It is a shame that your ears are closed to them.
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Old 06-17-2013, 11:30 AM   #251
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Re: Pics For Sharing & Debating

Hey Lotus, any chance you'll edit your SIG to include Giants fans also?
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Old 06-17-2013, 12:20 PM   #252
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Re: Pics For Sharing & Debating

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I didn't stretch anything. You made a truth claim above. You said when a President speaks, he speaks "fact," whereas when anyone else speaks, they speak only "opinion." Those are your words, not mine.

And your claim is patently false. Presidents offer "opinions," even "untruths," all the time. And non-Presidents offer "facts" all the time.

Ben Franklin still has wise words. It is a shame that your ears are closed to them.
I'll presume this is the statement you are talking about, correct?
" Since Franklin was or is not President in his time or this one his words are merely his opinion .....not fact ." If you read it I say his words .

When you take a quote from someone from over 200 years ago and try to make it serve your purpose no matter how different the circumstance is , yes it's opinion not fact.
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Old 06-17-2013, 01:07 PM   #253
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Re: Pics For Sharing & Debating

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Old 06-17-2013, 01:17 PM   #254
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Re: Pics For Sharing & Debating

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When you take a quote from someone from over 200 years ago and try to make it serve your purpose no matter how different the circumstance is , yes it's opinion not fact.
Don't you believe in God? If you do, I think you'll find the irony in that statement.
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Old 06-17-2013, 03:46 PM   #255
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Re: Pics For Sharing & Debating

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What are you implying with this picture? Do you think democracy or a semi-analogous system doesn't work?
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