Warpath  

Home | Forums | Salary Cap Info | Shop | Donate | Stay Connected




Go Back   Warpath > Off-Topic Discussion > Debating with the enemy


So... The Government is Shut Down...

Debating with the enemy


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 10-14-2013, 09:18 PM   #136
Mann Up HOF!
 
Lotus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Hattiesburg, MS
Posts: 10,291
Re: So... The Government is Shut Down...

Quote:
Originally Posted by NC_Skins View Post
Chris Van Hollen Busts GOP For Secretly 'Altering' Law To Facilitate The Shutdown (VIDEO) | Liberals Unite






Still think this is the Democrats doing? Don't those moderate Republicans know they are going to lose their spots in the house? Sure, some of those Tea Tards gerrymandered their district ensuring their re-election, but many are locations where they could (and probably will) be voted out.
Moderate Republicans have gone along out of fear of the Tea Party's deep pockets. The fear is that an angry TP will run someone hard at them in next year's Republicans primaries. It's elephant-on-elephant squabbling.
__________________
Rooting for the Dallas Cowboys should be recognized as a treatable mental disorder.
Lotus is offline   Reply With Quote

Advertisements
Old 10-15-2013, 04:15 AM   #137
Playmaker
 
Giantone's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 4,694
Re: So... The Government is Shut Down...

Quote:
Originally Posted by firstdown View Post
That's such a crock of shit. Usually its the racist that point the finger first.

....and who have you been blaming since day one ?
__________________
....DISCLAIMER: All of my posts/threads are my expressed typed opinion and the reader is not to assume these comments are absolute fact, law, or truth unless otherwise stated in said post/thread.
Giantone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-15-2013, 03:11 PM   #138
MVP
 
DynamiteRave's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Washington DC
Age: 27
Posts: 11,824
Re: So... The Government is Shut Down...

So... Who thinks we're heading towards default?

House can't put together a bill that the other Republicans can agree on. Personally, I think it'll be resolved if not by tomorrow then by Wednesday. But man, it looks like more and more Repubs are trying to cut off their nose to spite their face.

But does the default happen? Ye? Nay? They're cutting it awfully close...
__________________
Establishment, establishment, you always know what's best.

"We're officially horrible." -RedskinRat

I'm a chick, damnit.
DynamiteRave is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-15-2013, 03:44 PM   #139
Playmaker
 
Giantone's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 4,694
Re: So... The Government is Shut Down...

Quote:
Originally Posted by DynamiteRave View Post
So... Who thinks we're heading towards default?

House can't put together a bill that the other Republicans can agree on. Personally, I think it'll be resolved if not by tomorrow then by Wednesday. But man, it looks like more and more Repubs are trying to cut off their nose to spite their face.

But does the default happen? Ye? Nay? They're cutting it awfully close...

I do , I look at the news every night read the papers every morning and all I see and read about is total dysfunction . I for one believe that all of them ...YES ALL OF THEM ....are just to plain stupid to know what in the hell they are doing .
__________________
....DISCLAIMER: All of my posts/threads are my expressed typed opinion and the reader is not to assume these comments are absolute fact, law, or truth unless otherwise stated in said post/thread.
Giantone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-15-2013, 04:14 PM   #140
New HC, new hope!
 
RedskinRat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: I'm in LA, trick!
Posts: 8,545
Sadly, they know what they're doing. They just don't care.

Take back the country for 'We, the People'.
RedskinRat is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-15-2013, 04:19 PM   #141
Registered User
 
firstdown's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: chesapeake, va
Age: 49
Posts: 15,818
Re: So... The Government is Shut Down...

Quote:
Originally Posted by DynamiteRave View Post
So... Who thinks we're heading towards default?

House can't put together a bill that the other Republicans can agree on. Personally, I think it'll be resolved if not by tomorrow then by Wednesday. But man, it looks like more and more Repubs are trying to cut off their nose to spite their face.

But does the default happen? Ye? Nay? They're cutting it awfully close...
From what I read there is really no reason for us to defult on anything even if congress cannot pass a bill. To carry the debt is about 10% of our annual/monthly revenue so they will just have to pay those bills above other things. Sad news is the other things are probably Federal Employees.

I just sent in my personal tax returns both state & federal (filed an extension) and I wonder if my refund will be delayed. I don't really care if its delayed just curious.
firstdown is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-2013, 09:41 AM   #142
Mann Up HOF!
 
Lotus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Hattiesburg, MS
Posts: 10,291
Re: So... The Government is Shut Down...

Quote:
Originally Posted by DynamiteRave View Post
So... Who thinks we're heading towards default?

House can't put together a bill that the other Republicans can agree on. Personally, I think it'll be resolved if not by tomorrow then by Wednesday. But man, it looks like more and more Repubs are trying to cut off their nose to spite their face.

But does the default happen? Ye? Nay? They're cutting it awfully close...
It would be insane to default. Only the nuttiest, most ideologically-crazy politicians would allow this to happen.

So, yes, I am afraid that we will default.
__________________
Rooting for the Dallas Cowboys should be recognized as a treatable mental disorder.
Lotus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-2013, 10:10 AM   #143
Registered User
 
firstdown's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: chesapeake, va
Age: 49
Posts: 15,818
Re: So... The Government is Shut Down...

Here is a good read.




The Facts
The debt ceiling is set at $16.699 trillion, for both publicly traded bonds and intergovernmental obligations such as Social Security, and the United States actually hit it back in the middle of May. But the Treasury has juggled money around in an effort to keep from going over the debt limit. But by most estimates, sometime between Oct. 17 and Nov. 1, the game of financial musical chairs must end and Treasury would no longer be able to pay all bills that are due.

Paul’s aides said his figures were averages, and we won’t quibble with the numbers, except to note that in some months (such as when annual and quarterly taxes are due), there is a revenue gusher; in other months, tax collections are relatively slim.

According to the Bipartisan Policy Center, between Oct. 18 and Nov. 15, the government would have estimated receipts of $222 billion and owe $35 billion in interest on Treasury securities. So a monthly average does not really tell the whole story.

Moreover, let’s not forget that, even with the improvement in the economy, the United States is still running a substantial deficit — some $600 billion in the fiscal year that ended Sept. 30. That means that revenues are generally far short of expenses, month by month.

Paul’s main point is Treasury should be able to prioritize its payments, an aide said. In other words, it would choose to pay just the interest on the bonds held by Wall Street and foreign investors (such as the Chinese and Japanese governments) while stiffing other creditors. For instance, IRS refunds could be delayed or federal salaries withheld.

All told, in this period, some $100 billion in bills in the month after Oct. 15 would need to be delayed. An especially difficult day would be Nov. 1, when $58 billion in Social Security payments, disability benefits, Medicare payments, military salaries and retiree pay is due.

We will leave aside the question of whether any politician would want to tell Americans that Chinese bondholders get higher priority than their Social Security checks. Is this even possible?

(Update: We should have used an example other than Social Security checks. Because of the interaction with the trust funds, there would be no savings, as economist Dean Baker points out.)

Paul’s aides pointed to a 1985 General Accounting Office report that the “Treasury is free to liquidate obligations in any order it finds will best serve the interests of the United States.” But both the Treasury Department and the Congressional Research Service say that there is tremendous legal uncertainty about whether some payments could be honored while others ignored if the nation goes above the borrowing limit.

This is a bit of an academic dispute. The sheer volume of transactions — as many as 5 million a day — would make it difficult to pick and choose. Moreover, Treasury says its systems are designed to make payments in the order in which they are due.

After the 2011 showdown, Treasury concluded that “the least harmful option available to the country at the time, of these very bad options,” was a delayed payment regime. In other words, Treasury would only pay all of the bills for a particular day once it had collected enough cash for every outstanding claim due that day.

So, in theory, Monday’s payments would be held until, say, Wednesday. Then, Tuesday’s payments would be held until enough money was collected for that day’s payments, which could be Thursday or Friday. So the government could start the following week already three days behind in payments — and continue to fall ever farther back.

But if this even were possible, would it be advisable? Steve Bell, who worked on Wall Street and was a former staff director of the Senate Budget Committee under Sen. Pete V. Domenici (R-N.M.), says the financial markets likely would judge any delay in payments related to the debt ceiling as an effective default and would punish U.S. Treasuries accordingly by demanding higher interest rates on U.S. securities.

During the 2011 debt ceiling confrontation, elevated interest rates cost taxpayers $1.3 billion, according to the GAO. Over 10 years, Bell says, the impact of that relatively minor blip totals nearly $19 billion. In other words, if Wall Street decided that a delay in some payments meant the same thing as an actual default, traders could demand the same kind of rates as if the government had defaulted — at a substantial cost to U.S. taxpayers.

Wall Street executives, quoted in The Wall Street Journal this week, in fact warned against attempting to make some payments ahead of others, saying it would “drive up borrowing costs and cause market disruptions.”

“Senator Paul is not advocating merely paying the interest on the debt,” the aide said. “These are all hypothetical situations in terms of the U.S. not fulfilling all obligations. The point is that there is no reason to default on the debt.”

“Markets would be unhappy if the government didn’t pay any bills but it would be much, much worse if they didn’t pay interest on the government debt,” Feldstein said in an e-mail. “I imagine that the government is not writing checks to some suppliers, etc. now but the markets are not upset because they know it will come later. So from a ‘fact checking’ point of view, the fact is that the government can avoid defaulting on the debt payments.”

The Pinocchio Test
On a theoretical level, it might be possible to just pay interest on the national debt, while
firstdown is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-2013, 11:52 AM   #144
Mann Up HOF!
 
Lotus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Hattiesburg, MS
Posts: 10,291
Re: So... The Government is Shut Down...

Even Pat Robertson thinks that the GOP has gone too far:
TV preacher Robertson sees GOP as too extreme | MSNBC

What a sad day it is when Robertson is more reasonable than some House members.
__________________
Rooting for the Dallas Cowboys should be recognized as a treatable mental disorder.
Lotus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-2013, 12:01 PM   #145
MVP
 
dmek25's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: lancaster,pa
Age: 52
Posts: 10,504
Re: So... The Government is Shut Down...

i think that the GOP is realizing that to default would make Obama one of the most powerful presidents in our life time

Obama Can Use 'Emergency Powers' To Mitigate Default Pain, Historian Says
__________________
"It's better to be quiet and thought a fool than to open ones mouth and remove all doubt."
courtesy of 53fan
dmek25 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-2013, 12:10 PM   #146
Registered User
 
firstdown's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: chesapeake, va
Age: 49
Posts: 15,818
Re: So... The Government is Shut Down...

Well I do agree with Obama on this. Nothing like a man taking a real stance on an issue.

firstdown is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-2013, 12:34 PM   #147
Registered User
 
firstdown's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: chesapeake, va
Age: 49
Posts: 15,818
Re: So... The Government is Shut Down...

Well a deal has been reached.

Senators seek budget deal, House GOP effort flops
firstdown is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-2013, 12:39 PM   #148
Registered User
 
firstdown's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: chesapeake, va
Age: 49
Posts: 15,818
Re: So... The Government is Shut Down...

Quote:
Originally Posted by firstdown View Post
Well I do agree with Obama on this. Nothing like a man taking a real stance on an issue.

"O" the Debt Ceiling - YouTube


I'm sure if Obama would sign the bill if he feels this way.
firstdown is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-2013, 12:48 PM   #149
‎\m/
 
Mattyk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Age: 41
Posts: 79,417
Re: So... The Government is Shut Down...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lotus View Post
Even Pat Robertson thinks that the GOP has gone too far:
TV preacher Robertson sees GOP as too extreme | MSNBC

What a sad day it is when Robertson is more reasonable than some House members.
Scary since Robertson is a complete wacko.
__________________
Support The Warpath! | Warpath Shop
Mattyk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-2013, 01:11 PM   #150
MVP
 
Chico23231's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Richmond, VA
Age: 37
Posts: 10,590
Re: So... The Government is Shut Down...

Ted Cruz’s Hometown Newspaper Regrets Endorsement - ABC News

Bye Ted Cruz, you failed and loss a ton of support. You probably found a home on the Palin speaking circuit for nuts.
__________________
@RSherman_25 just make sure you stay in Seattle cause without that pass rush you are who we thought you were. 5th rd PK no speed good hands

— DeAngelo Hall (@DeAngeloHall23) March 14, 2014
Chico23231 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 05:47 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site is not officially affiliated with the Washington Redskins or the NFL.
Page generated in 0.34326 seconds with 10 queries

Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.2.0 RC5

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25