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So... The Government is Shut Down...

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Old 10-03-2013, 02:16 PM   #46
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Re: So... The Government is Shut Down...

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Originally Posted by firstdown View Post
The Rep. have presented several option to change health ins over the years but had the door shut in thier face by Obama.
Newt Gingrich: Republicans Rip Obamacare, but Have ‘Zero Answer’ for Alternatives - ABC News

As normal, FD is talking out of his ass. The GOP have come up with ZERO alternatives. None. Zilch. Nada.

Their only alternative is.........."obamacare is bad".
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Old 10-03-2013, 02:28 PM   #47
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Re: So... The Government is Shut Down...

The individual mandate may be "the cornerstone of Obamacare", but it is not and never was the ultimate problem with the ACA and the Republicans failure to grasp this issue is what prevented them from "fixing" healthcare (the failure to grasp being mainly among the Tea Party and their attacks on the Constitutionality of the act). All the individual mandate does - w/out any fundamental changes to the pricing model - is pour gas on an open fire.

An individual mandate with real healthcare reform should actually lower costs by capturing the multitude of young single people who would otherwise not purchase insurance and spreading the cost of care (which needed to be addressed separately).
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Old 10-03-2013, 02:55 PM   #48
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Re: So... The Government is Shut Down...

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We have to just disagree on the first bold area. On the second Obama is dlaying what he knows is going to be an economic kick in the balls when its done. Why do you think so many companies are hiring so many part time workers. They are scared of the real cost of Obama care so they stop hiring full time employees even on a greater scale then before.

How many companies are at around 45 to 49 employees just not hiring anyone else so they don't have to conform to the new Obama care.

You really think Obama does not know this?
I do not "agree to disagree" with you. You are wrong. Period. For me to accept the "agree to disagree" cop out, you have to show me an alternative a comprehensive healthcare reform plan presented by the Republicans as a counter to the ACA. There is no such plan and to "agree to disagree" that there is one is intellectually lazy. You are wrong. You can refuse to accept that but it will not change the factually erroneous basis of your assertion.

[We can "agree to disagree" on the color of the sky when I say it is blue and you assert it is green with purple polka dots. Such an "agreement" It does not change the fact that your assertion is wrong and has no rational basis. Your assertion that Republicans presented true alternatives to the ACA has the same factual basis as an assertion that the sky is green with purple polka dots].

As to the rest, yes, Obama is playing politics and his actions will, ultimately, in the long term harm the infrastructure. Yes, I believe he is fully aware of the hidden costs of the ACA that you describe. As you assert, companies that might hire, won't hire or hire part-time rather than full-time. This, however, doesn't show as an immediate harm to most people ("I didn't have a job before the ACA, I don't have one now" OR "I didn't have a job before the ACA, but now I have a part time job").

Compare that to the people immediately put out of work, the loss of services caused by the Republicans' intransigence and you tell me who is playing the game of politics better at this point.

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As to the benefit it creats I don't know other then another year to maybe find the votes to overturn the bill. At worst it delays a bad law another year.
By making it the reason they are defunding the entire federal Govt., the Republicans are ensuring that they will not have the votes to overturn it. The ACA is now a rallying point for Democrats and, in every close race, opposition to it will mark you a radical zealot ready to go nuclear - thus, alienating informed moderate voters of both parties and the largely uninformed sheeple.

If you can't see that the Republicans are cutting off their nose to spite their face on this ... well ... we'll just have to agree to disagree on that.
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Old 10-03-2013, 03:21 PM   #49
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Re: So... The Government is Shut Down...

Guess we should've seen this coming.

Woman Fires at Capitol After Trying to Ram White House Gates | NBC4 Washington
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Old 10-03-2013, 03:39 PM   #50
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Probably someone's stepford wife. Just bored and tired of their little man at home.
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Old 10-03-2013, 03:43 PM   #51
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Re: So... The Government is Shut Down...

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Probably someone's stepford wife. Just bored and tired of their little man at home.
lol zing!
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Old 10-03-2013, 04:16 PM   #52
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Re: So... The Government is Shut Down...

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I do not "agree to disagree" with you. You are wrong. Period. For me to accept the "agree to disagree" cop out, you have to show me an alternative a comprehensive healthcare reform plan presented by the Republicans as a counter to the ACA. There is no such plan and to "agree to disagree" that there is one is intellectually lazy. You are wrong. You can refuse to accept that but it will not change the factually erroneous basis of your assertion.

[We can "agree to disagree" on the color of the sky when I say it is blue and you assert it is green with purple polka dots. Such an "agreement" It does not change the fact that your assertion is wrong and has no rational basis. Your assertion that Republicans presented true alternatives to the ACA has the same factual basis as an assertion that the sky is green with purple polka dots].

As to the rest, yes, Obama is playing politics and his actions will, ultimately, in the long term harm the infrastructure. Yes, I believe he is fully aware of the hidden costs of the ACA that you describe. As you assert, companies that might hire, won't hire or hire part-time rather than full-time. This, however, doesn't show as an immediate harm to most people ("I didn't have a job before the ACA, I don't have one now" OR "I didn't have a job before the ACA, but now I have a part time job").

Compare that to the people immediately put out of work, the loss of services caused by the Republicans' intransigence and you tell me who is playing the game of politics better at this point.



By making it the reason they are defunding the entire federal Govt., the Republicans are ensuring that they will not have the votes to overturn it. The ACA is now a rallying point for Democrats and, in every close race, opposition to it will mark you a radical zealot ready to go nuclear - thus, alienating informed moderate voters of both parties and the largely uninformed sheeple.

If you can't see that the Republicans are cutting off their nose to spite their face on this ... well ... we'll just have to agree to disagree on that.
This was easy.

Rep. McKinley Endorses an Alternative to President Obama’s Health Care Law | Huntington News


Republicans Offer Alternative to Obama Health Care Plan | CNS News

House conservatives back 'Obamacare' alternative

HOUSE REPUBLICANS INTRODUCE OBAMACARE ALTERNATIVES | sreaves32

To say they have offered nothing is talking out your ass. Not you Joe.
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Old 10-03-2013, 04:31 PM   #53
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Re: So... The Government is Shut Down...

Joe I understand what your saying but for me this last ditch effort is worth it. Also Rep have put forth bills to fund goverment but Obama says he will not accept any partial funding.
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Old 10-03-2013, 04:37 PM   #54
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Re: So... The Government is Shut Down...



Are you ****ing kidding me?

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Today House conservatives introduced the first detailed alternative to ObamaCare legislation to increase the tax breaks for those who buy their own insurance.

Giving a tax break to those who purchase insurance isn't a alternative to Obamacare. GTFO with that weak shit. As Newt Gingrich said, the GOP haven't come up with ANYTHING. This is NEWT GINGRICH. The man who was near the top in the GOP voting to run for President. He's calling the party out because he knows they have nothing. He's right. They don't.
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Old 10-03-2013, 05:17 PM   #55
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Re: So... The Government is Shut Down...

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Joe I understand what your saying but for me this last ditch effort is worth it. Also Rep have put forth bills to fund goverment but Obama says he will not accept any partial funding.
What "last ditch effort"? The ACA is a law and shutting down the gov't doesn't change that at all.

As for partial funding, NO ONE should accept that. The ACA is a law. Americans are expected to abide by the law, period.
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Old 10-03-2013, 05:35 PM   #56
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Re: So... The Government is Shut Down...

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Are you ****ing kidding me?




Giving a tax break to those who purchase insurance isn't a alternative to Obamacare. GTFO with that weak shit. As Newt Gingrich said, the GOP haven't come up with ANYTHING. This is NEWT GINGRICH. The man who was near the top in the GOP voting to run for President. He's calling the party out because he knows they have nothing. He's right. They don't.
So you only took one thing from all those post. Funny you discounted Newt in the elections but now he is your poster boy.
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Old 10-03-2013, 05:39 PM   #57
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Re: So... The Government is Shut Down...

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What "last ditch effort"? The ACA is a law and shutting down the gov't doesn't change that at all.

As for partial funding, NO ONE should accept that. The ACA is a law. Americans are expected to abide by the law, period.
I think of all the bad laws we have had on the books and if others didn't fight to change them then what a different world.
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Old 10-03-2013, 05:46 PM   #58
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Re: So... The Government is Shut Down...

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I think of all the bad laws we have had on the books and if others didn't fight to change them then what a different world.
If you want to change the ACA, fine. Take legislative action. But neither shutting down the government nor offering a partial payment scheme achieve that goal.

If Congressmen offered partial payments so that they could violate the law against murder, would you approve? If not, then please recognize that the law is the law, whether it be homicide or the ACA.

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Last edited by Lotus; 10-03-2013 at 07:16 PM.
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Old 10-04-2013, 09:53 AM   #59
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Re: So... The Government is Shut Down...

Conservatives need to admit defeat on health care and move on, the time to negotiate is over. Don't they have anything important to do? Like I don't know, passing the budget? Our gov't is flat out embarrassing.
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Old 10-04-2013, 10:50 AM   #60
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Re: So... The Government is Shut Down...

So proceed with a bad law just because it has been made a law, despite the number of jobs it's costing and more people are LOSING coverage than gaining it because of the legal requirements placed on employers and individuals alike, the fact that the Congressional Budget Office says it's costing 4 times the projected amount and will bankrupt the country, the fact that people's rate are tripling after being told it would decrease or cost nothing, it's driving many doctors to retire rather than deal with it, it's own authors admit it's a failure, the people who passed it are too afraid to live under it themselves and exempt not only themselves and their corporate friends and donors...and the list is endless?

The fact that someone is fighting this and not backing down gives our country a chance to actually survive it.

At minimum, the whole thing should be delayed until everything is actually in place to implement it. They've had three years already, but this debacle was not ready to be rolled out.

If you want a budget passed, blame goes solely on the Senate Democrats and President. They have not passed one since Obama has been President and we're heading into year #6. There's absolutely no excuse, the Democrats held the White House and BOTH houses of Congress for 2 years and still did not pass a budget.

That alone should be an impeachable offense, not performing the most important job duty they're required to do.

Lay off the vacations and parties and do your job, Mr. President and Senator Reid.
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