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Ferguson

Debating with the enemy


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Old 08-13-2014, 11:49 PM   #1
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Ferguson

I know several were closed earlier in the offseason because of the repetitious and sometimes juvenile bickering, but can we all agree that the situation in Ferguson right now is reprehensible. And the minimal covering on some news outlets is indefensible. I was watching live footage and the police were firing canister after canister of tear gas at an unorganized weaponless and defenseless group of people who were holding there hands in the air. Regardless of what spark set this off, either the sstate or national government needs to step in and set the Ferguson police right.

Protests turn violent in St. Louis suburb

I can only imagine how this sets our country back...
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Old 08-14-2014, 07:48 AM   #2
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Re: Ferguson

It's pretty awful. Heard a full run down of the incident at McDonalds this morning, scary.

Also saw a video that was shot showing a news crew on camera, set up on the sidewalk alone, just the news crew. Next thing you see is a canister come in spewing out smoke or gas, which forces the crew to run away from all their equipment.

Hopefully it starts to show signs of improvement there soon.
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Old 08-14-2014, 10:24 AM   #3
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Re: Ferguson

The whole situation is tragic and there are so many shameful aspects of it it's hard to even want to care anymore.

These stories always have the same trends...

- Why is it every time a (seemingly) tragic event occurs to a black kid it's immediately made a racial issue?

- Why are so many people so infatuated with rushing to judgement? Sure, yellow journalism is on display in its finest right now but the only reason they do it is because it works. The people saying the cop was absolutely in the wrong are as much the problem as the people saying the cop was absolutely in the right. The only investigative authority on the issue, the FBI, has yet to release any information. They key witness in the issue is refusing to talk to police. So with what facts and confidence does anyone form an opinion one way or the other? The answer is none - they're speculating and falling back on preconceived thoughts on these issues - whether they be anti-black, anti-white, anti-police, pro-all the aforementioned, or anything else.

- why do low income/poor communities have this gut reaction to riot, loot, and destroy their communities? spare me the "they're discouraged by corrupt police/local politics" - they did this during Katrina too. it's a running theme - when these areas face turmoil a substantial part of the local community decides to use the turmoil to excuse raping and beating each other, looting local business and destroying personal property.

and it all comes back to the rush to judgement. there are NO facts available in this case. we have a bunch of random people from the community telling the media what they saw - with no way of verifying any of it - and we have the local police chief repeating the version of the police officer making sure to include the word 'allegedly' everywhere (notice how people have turned into the entire police department defending the police officer? it's a joke.) that's it. there are no facts. anyone claiming otherwise is simply making things up.

these issues just make me realize that as a society we're so much further behind than we all like to think we are. intelligent and thoughtful evaluation of serious issues is almost non existent, and majority of people seem to latch on to emotionally driven BS more than facts. the racial tensions in this country are not good, cheer the election of the first black president all you want we still have a fundamental problem in this country and it's on *both* sides. our media is completely and utterly worthless and our own populace has no desire to try to correct it - they'd rather participate in it then stand back and say it's the media's fault when called on it.


personally... i'm just glad i don't live in a community that would behave this way, and if for some reason it started to i have the means with which to remove my family and myself from the situation. it's a damn shame that in 2014 we don't have any more courage as a society than this.
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Old 08-14-2014, 01:11 PM   #4
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Re: Ferguson

The situation is beyond crazy. But to be honest I really havent heard all the facts of the incident...its like the both sides of the people and police are going ape shit, yet I havent heard exactly what happened or the facts of the incident. And as someone who is update on most current events, thats bothersome.

This society of swift condemnation and violent reaction is very troubling. We need to hit the pause button.

One side is looting, protesting-violent and non violent, and the other is in military gear, blasting tear gas in the streets.....
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Old 08-14-2014, 01:33 PM   #5
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Re: Ferguson

the President's speech was spot on - everyone needs to take a step back.

Chico - the reason you haven't heard all the facts is because there are none to hear... the people investigating it are not publicly airing their investigation as it goes, which is exactly the way it should be.

What you're hear are people that are self-appointed authorities telling everyone else what happened; people that weren't there that day. Some of which weren't even in the state. Many of which have zero experience or training in police procedures, investigations, etc.
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Old 08-14-2014, 02:14 PM   #6
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Re: Ferguson

Quote:
Originally Posted by tshile View Post
the President's speech was spot on - everyone needs to take a step back.

Chico - the reason you haven't heard all the facts is because there are none to hear... the people investigating it are not publicly airing their investigation as it goes, which is exactly the way it should be.

What you're hear are people that are self-appointed authorities telling everyone else what happened; people that weren't there that day. Some of which weren't even in the state. Many of which have zero experience or training in police procedures, investigations, etc.
One fact, i do know is the police response has been over aggressive and rediculous.
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Old 08-14-2014, 03:17 PM   #7
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Re: Ferguson

Quote:
Originally Posted by tshile View Post
the President's speech was spot on - everyone needs to take a step back.

Chico - the reason you haven't heard all the facts is because there are none to hear... the people investigating it are not publicly airing their investigation as it goes, which is exactly the way it should be.

What you're hear are people that are self-appointed authorities telling everyone else what happened; people that weren't there that day. Some of which weren't even in the state. Many of which have zero experience or training in police procedures, investigations, etc.
It's not unfair to say that there is a ton of video evidence of the police over reaching response. There is a film crew (yeah I know it's al-Jazeera America but nonetheless) that is filming, and gets gassed, then the camera is dismantled by police. There was video of people, unarmed and hands in the air, being bombarded with tear gas. No there hasn't been full and open investigations, but that appears to be mainly because the police have been less than forthcoming with it.
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Old 08-14-2014, 03:51 PM   #8
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Re: Ferguson

Chico and CRedskinsRule:

Ah - we're talking about two different things.

My rants on the lack of facts were directed at the initial incident - Brown being shot by the cop. Specifically we have the cop's statements to the Furgeson Police, repeated by the Police Chief, and that's it. The key witness is (as of last time I checked) refusing to talk to the police. The only other people talking are the ones I mentioned earlier that weren't there and don't know.


As for the police response... you have to remember that current picture of Furgeson is not how it's been since the original shooting. It was originally protests and police around the area as you would think.

It only escalated to the military-esque scenes we're seeing on TV now after 2 nights of looting and destruction of property (burning down buildings, cars, etc.) Specifically on the 2nd night police responded to a 911 call about a group of men in ski masks and guns shooting in an area. When cops arrived they actually wound up shooting one of the men, sending him to this hospital (this is a second shooting in the area at this point.) This is when they stepped up the police presence.

All of that is to say - be careful how much you buy into the media's narrative.

The police are absolutely over stepping in some cases. But the narrative seems to be that they just don't like black people protesting and are trying to put a stop to it.

The reality is that after two nights of complete chaos, mass looting, burning of businesses, a second police officer shooting incident, and who knows what else, they brought in these forces to try to maintain control over a tension-filled situation.

So for all the people that think this is an over reaction - how would you like it if your business was looted and burned to the ground while the police sat by and did nothing (as they originally did for two days)?

For those familiar with the King riot sin LA in '92 - they behaved the opposite of Ferguson. They set up a perimeter and tried to keep the riots contained instead of inserting a strong presence from the start and keeping control. It's taken almost 2 decades for the entire area to move past it, and in some ways it still hasn't. Businesses were lost for good. People were raped, beaten. Some people died. Some people were beaten almost to death because their skin is white.

If you're not familair with those stories this is a good read I sent to someone else earlier - Twenty years later, Rodney King riots still resonate - CSMonitor.com

There's documentaries out on that side of the King riots as well. There were Koreans on top of buildings with rifles protecting their blocks of businesses in Korea town.

These business owners and citizens not involved in the riots pay taxes to be protected. This is why we have police. To maintain order.

I'm sure some of the officers in some incidents are being way over the top - but I have a hard time solely blaming them. It's a disaster down there right now.

The FAA declared a no fly zone over the area days ago...

As for the media members... I have no sympathy for people that go to a place like this seeking headlines. Specifically by staying out past curfew. They have a curfew for a reason and those reporters are not special. If they choose not to follow the orders of the police in regards to the curfew then they get what they deserve in my opinion.

This situation is entirely too tense for the amount of yellow journalism that is going on right now. It serves no one any good. Well, except for ratings I suppose.
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Old 08-14-2014, 03:56 PM   #9
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Re: Ferguson

Also i believe the unarmed people with their hands in the air being video recorded - it was dark in that video correct? I haven't seen it, but I believe I've seen a picture from the video (or a screen grab) and it was dark?

if so - it's after curfew. no sympathy from me. in my opinion: you don't get to incite the police to come after you for violating a curfew put in place because of mass riots, looting, and violence then cry when they tear gas you; even if you're just standing there with your hands in the air.

the people that stage that so they can get a good headline should be locked up for a day or two in my opinion. they've become part of the problem at that point.
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Old 08-14-2014, 06:50 PM   #10
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Re: Ferguson

#Ferguson

no sympathy from me for the police. from a distance a thousand excuses will always be made.

Why the police-shooting riots in Ferguson, Mo., had little to do with Ferguson - The Washington Post
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Old 08-14-2014, 08:21 PM   #11
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Re: Ferguson

It seems they have revealed the name since then but the Chief says that the officer named isn't on the roster. Still kind of scary that 14 year old kids have gotten this good.

Hackers have the names and Social Security numbers of Ferguson police. But should they share them? - The Washington Post
Quote:
David, a.k.a. Pharoah, doesn’t hold a political office or opine for CNN. But this week, the 14-year-old hacker mounted what might have been one of the more personally damaging attacks against Ferguson, Mo.’s embattled police department: the name — and the address, and the Social Security number — of St. Louis County Police Chief Jon Belmar.


Anonymous' "Op Ferguson" Says It Will ID the Officer Who Killed Michael Brown | Mother Jones

Update: Anonymous reveals alleged Ferguson shooter’s name, Police says group gets it wrong | KFOR.com
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Old 08-14-2014, 09:55 PM   #12
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Re: Ferguson

Sweet. Not only may we see vigilante justice, but it might be against the wrong person.
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Old 08-15-2014, 04:01 AM   #13
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Re: Ferguson

Simple enough for the police to release the name of the shooter. It is beyond poor judgment that they didn't immediately. He shot and killed an individual, good shoot or bad, he doesn't have any right to privacy, and the cover up is reprehensible.
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Old 08-15-2014, 08:03 AM   #14
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Re: Ferguson

You give no credence to the idea that it's for his safety while an investigation is ongoing?

You think it means there's a cover up going on?
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Old 08-15-2014, 11:44 AM   #15
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Re: Ferguson

I think the key thing I want to know: did this kid wrestle with the police officer or not?
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