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With the 53 pick the Skins select.......

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Old 04-11-2006, 03:47 PM   #16
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Re: With the 53 pick the Skins select.......

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Originally Posted by Beemnseven
Welcome aboard, bud. And I agree totally. Each year this team neglects the D-line, and weíve been lucky that for the past two seasons, a star or two has shined and the line has been stout. Sure, theyíll bring in a moderately successful D-tackle or end like Cornelius Griffin or Andre Carter every other year or so, just to be able to say that they didnít ignore it. Thankfully, Griffinís career has magically discovered a rebirth and hopefully Carterís will do the same. But sooner or later, those positions will require major upgrades and all the Cedric Killings, Ryan Boschettis, and Demetric Evansí will be there to take up space, but thatís about it. As much as I hate to admit it, I loved what Dallas did with their draft last year with the selections of Demarcus Ware, Marcus Spears and Chris Canty. Iíd love for Joe Gibbs and Snyderatto to devote the same kind of attention to the defensive line at some point. But I also understand you have to take the best player available, and if the D-linemen just arenít there, you canít overreach for them.

If we can sign up Keith Adams, he may not be a superstar, but to me heíd be enough to make the situation secure at linebacker. Cornerback also appears to be solid with the addition of Kenny Wright. So if a draftable lineman on D is available, Iíll be disappointed if they go elsewhere.
I don't know how you can say griffin is moderately successful or daniels isn't good or that carter isn't a big signing. useless we draft 4 DL guys and bring in mathis and peppers you just won't be happy, right? I mean really, what do you expect?

getting a very average starting LB is fine with you as long as we can draft a DL guy that'll have ZERO chance to start (instead of a starting LB)... weird.
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Old 04-11-2006, 05:41 PM   #17
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Re: With the 53 pick the Skins select.......

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I don't know how you can say griffin is moderately successful or daniels isn't good or that carter isn't a big signing. useless we draft 4 DL guys and bring in mathis and peppers you just won't be happy, right? I mean really, what do you expect?

getting a very average starting LB is fine with you as long as we can draft a DL guy that'll have ZERO chance to start (instead of a starting LB)... weird.
I said Griffin's career has had a magical rebirth; for the better I might add. The knock on him when the Skins signed him was that he had one good rookie year then had fallen off in subsequent seasons with the Giants. To me, he was a moderate success when we signed him, but has turned out better than anyone could have expected and has been the anchor of the line. I also believe we struck gold with Joe Salave'a.

Until the second Cowboy game, Philip Daniels was a joke, -- he and Renaldo Wynn up to that point had combined for something like one sack. Then along with the rest of the team, Daniels really picked it up for the 5 game winning streak that got us into the playoffs. While it's a big signing in terms of numbers, we have no idea of the impact Andre Carter will have on the team. I wouldn't necessarily call him a premier defensive end, though I admit our cap space and the overall availability of any other good D-ends limited much of what we could do. In that instance, Gibbs and Co. probably did the best they could.

I've never been a fan of Renaldo Wynn. Most people defend him because he's a good run-stopper. As a pass rusher though, and that's primarily where he's played in Washington, well ... let's just say he hasn't been much of a threat to sack the quarterback. The Brandon Noble fiasco was more bad luck than anything else, but I never looked at his acquisition as anything more than depth. Factor in guys like Killings, Boschetti, Evans, and others, and you've got second stringers at best who can rotate in to give the starters a breather. But there’s little doubt that they are no threat to the first string for a starting job.

Let's not forget also, that there was a stretch last season when the defense had a bit of a problem stopping the run. When Griffin and then Salave'a went down to injury, it could have spelled serious trouble. Thankfully, the injuries weren't long term, and their replacements held their own.

I have said over and over that I understand you cannot overreach for one particular position, and you have to select the best player available to you in the draft. I’ll make no excuses about it – I’d give anything to see the Redskins do just what the Cowboys did last year when they used their two 1st round picks on Marcus Spears and Demarcus Ware. Then, in the 4th round, I firmly believe we goofed when we took Manuel White while Chris Canty was still on the board. I’ve always believed that a great defensive line works wonders for whatever linebackers and secondary you have. Perhaps I’m being too optimistic, but I have faith in guys like Chris Clemons and Lemar Marshall to be adequate at the very least, if not, a legitimate force at linebacker. Then there’s project guys like Robert McCune.

Maybe I am too hard on the team for not addressing the defensive line the way I want them to. And I’ll certainly yield to your draft expertise. I don’t have nearly the time to devote to researching it. If there’s not a defensive lineman worth taking with our spot in the draft, then so be it. If there’s clearly a better linebacker waiting there, then let’s take him. My only bone of contention is that with another injury or two like what we saw with Griffin or Salave'a, we might not be as lucky the next time around. Just once, I'd like to see a high draft pick used on a D-lineman. If we did that, it would be the first time since Bobby Wilson in 1991. Since then, we've relied on journeymen and cast-offs from other teams. That's what bothers me.
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Old 04-11-2006, 06:18 PM   #18
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Re: With the 53 pick the Skins select.......

its just that from your complaints seems like you want 7 starter quality DL guys. with a cap, that's just not possible, and anyone who loses their starters is going to be hurting. People here did like canty, but his stats this year aren't nearly as good as evans, who you term as a pure second stringer.

Bobby Wilson busted, just using a high pick doesn't mean success and our starting 4 are good right now, with a 5th starter (wynn) whose solid (not amazing, but one of the better backups you'll find) and evans and killings are sserviceable as well. I'm just not sure how many players and how much money you want spent on the DL, cause it seems like nothing will be enough unless everyone's getting 10 sacks each, including the guys on the bench.

For a team with a cap, having an extra starter and 2 quality subs is about as good as you can hope for at any position, and its far better than our LB, DB, or OL situation right now (though you can argue the DB or OL starters are a bit higher quality). Our QB situation, as far as depth, is still a question mark, and only our skill position (RB/FB/TE/WR) depth is considerably better.
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Old 04-11-2006, 06:37 PM   #19
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Re: With the 53 pick the Skins select.......

Hey guys , I do like are DL , but it is the postition with the hightest average age . Danials has been hurt each of the last two years , and if we lost Danials or Griff. I think we would be in trouble . And if Taylor misses this year , we will need a better pass rush to protect our DB's . I have no problem drafting a LB or O- lineman at 53 , I still believe that you win most games in the trenches ! LETS JUST KICK THE ---- OUT OF DALLAS !!!!
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Old 04-11-2006, 06:53 PM   #20
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I don't know how you can say griffin is moderately successful or daniels isn't good or that carter isn't a big signing. useless we draft 4 DL guys and bring in mathis and peppers you just won't be happy, right? I mean really, what do you expect?

getting a very average starting LB is fine with you as long as we can draft a DL guy that'll have ZERO chance to start (instead of a starting LB)... weird.
I never said that I didn't want a LB . By not taking a LB at 53 does not mean that you can not find a starter . We have six LB's on the roster with less than 4 years , that is why I would rather bring in a ,, Sharper , Polley or some Lb with some leadership quality to mentor the young guys and add some stability .
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Old 04-11-2006, 07:05 PM   #21
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Re: With the 53 pick the Skins select.......

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I never said that I didn't want a LB . By not taking a LB at 53 does not mean that you can not find a starter . We have six LB's on the roster with less than 4 years , that is why I would rather bring in a ,, Sharper , Polley or some Lb with some leadership quality to mentor the young guys and add some stability .
Isn't that Marcus Washington?

Wynn gives us depth at DT and DE as does Evans. Daniels can slide inside as well. So we're alot deeper on the inside than it appears IMHO.
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Old 04-11-2006, 07:25 PM   #22
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Re: With the 53 pick the Skins select.......

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carter averages over 7 sacks when playing DE. Daniels had 8 last year (though he's doubtful to repeat). Griffin gets 5-6 a year at DT. Youth would be nice, but no DE is going to come in and rack up 8 sacks his rookie year (at least, not 99% of the time). I think a CB or LB (or even a reserve OG) could contribute more immediately.

we have a bunch of DL guys with under 4 years experience (jones, killings, clemons, etc... no one of note), evans is entering his 6th year (which is more than 4), and lemar marshall has started more than 20 games. 16 last year, and most the year before when lavar got hurt.
Don't sell Daniels short. He will be going against the second best tackle now and teams will have to choose who they are going to give the help to. I see 20 sacks out of Carter and Daniels combined if they stay healthy.
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Old 04-11-2006, 07:25 PM   #23
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Re: With the 53 pick the Skins select.......

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I never said that I didn't want a LB . By not taking a LB at 53 does not mean that you can not find a starter . We have six LB's on the roster with less than 4 years , that is why I would rather bring in a ,, Sharper , Polley or some Lb with some leadership quality to mentor the young guys and add some stability .
The post you're responding to was directed at me.

As an aside, I don't think it would be the end of the world with Marcus Washington, Lemar Marshall, and Chris Clemons, Warrick Holdman, or Keith Adams (if he signs, of course) in the third linebacker spot.

But if there's a stud linebacker available when we pick, we should take him.
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Old 04-11-2006, 07:27 PM   #24
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Re: With the 53 pick the Skins select.......

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Don't sell Daniels short. He will be going against the second best tackle now and teams will have to choose who they are going to give the help to. I see 20 sacks out of Carter and Daniels combined if they stay healthy.
20 sacks might be a bit high, but I too am interested in how Carter could open things up for Philip Daniels.
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Old 04-11-2006, 10:01 PM   #25
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Smile Re: With the 53 pick the Skins select.......

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The post you're responding to was directed at me.

As an aside, I don't think it would be the end of the world with Marcus Washington, Lemar Marshall, and Chris Clemons, Warrick Holdman, or Keith Adams (if he signs, of course) in the third linebacker spot.

But if there's a stud linebacker available when we pick, we should take him.
I 'am fine with picking a LB ,,, I would just rather have the young stud be a Lineman < OL or DL > . I would like another backer on the roster as well , I actually think that Chris Clemons is going to be a real weapon as a pass rusher on third downs ! I want to see Bledsoe on his back all night on September 17th .
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Old 04-11-2006, 11:57 PM   #26
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Re: With the 53 pick the Skins select.......

I think OL (OG specificly) is still a real possibility since pucillo and walters aren't guys you'd ever want on the field. It's not like wynn (or ray brown last year) where you know you've got a reliable starter on the bench.
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Old 04-12-2006, 12:06 AM   #27
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Re: With the 53 pick the Skins select.......

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I think OL (OG specificly) is still a real possibility since pucillo and walters aren't guys you'd ever want on the field. It's not like wynn (or ray brown last year) where you know you've got a reliable starter on the bench.
Without giving away any mock draft strategies you plan to use, which o-linemen do you think would give us proper value at pick #53?
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Old 04-12-2006, 12:21 AM   #28
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Re: With the 53 pick the Skins select.......

I'm thinking a tight end like marcedes lewis if he falls that far, or LB D'qwell jackson. If we go after him we'll possibly move up to take him. traditionally the skins don't just sit on their hands on draft day
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Old 04-12-2006, 12:48 AM   #29
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Re: With the 53 pick the Skins select.......

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I'm thinking a tight end like marcedes lewis if he falls that far, or LB D'qwell jackson. If we go after him we'll possibly move up to take him. traditionally the skins don't just sit on their hands on draft day
Lewis isn't the answer at TE, but Anthony Fasano is a possibility. Jackson would be a great pick. We really can't move up because we have nothing before the 5th round to trade.
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Old 04-12-2006, 02:04 AM   #30
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Re: With the 53 pick the Skins select.......

if we pick up a TE, its probably klop or pope since they're more of the big traditional balanced TE. lewis can't block, and with the possiblity of adopting a 3WR (+ cooley) base package, another receiving TE might not be the best use of that pick (not to mention lewis will, in all likelyhood, be gone by then).
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