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Maske/JLC: Gibbs Hints Redskins Might Trade Up

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Old 03-29-2007, 02:54 PM   #121
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Re: Maske/JLC: Gibbs Hints Redskins Might Trade Up

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Originally Posted by artmonkforhallofamein07 View Post
You know what guys... I am sick and tired of getting all worked up over the Redskins. If they do a deal to move up or down or get Briggs I'm going to accept and cheer for my team. These guys have to know what they are doing, come on Joe Gibbs is the only coach of the Redskins to ever win a superbowl, so the guy knows how to build a football team. All of us fans want one thing or another and think the world os going to collapse around us if that doesn't happen. At this point I'm just like make us better how ever you do it just make us better.

HAIL!!
I'm a big Gibbs sycophant. I am. But the fact is, the guy signed off on Archuletta and Lloyd. How'd that work out? Gibbs didn't build his Super Bowl winning teams. Beathard did. I'm not saying he's not a good judge of character/talent, nor am I saying he is mistake prone. But I don't have blind faith in the man either. Joe Gibbs knows how to coach a football team. I think the jury is still out on whether or not he knows how to BUILD a football team.
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Old 03-29-2007, 04:24 PM   #122
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Re: Maske/JLC: Gibbs Hints Redskins Might Trade Up

Alright GM I can agree with that, but didn't Gibbs have a really big part on buildiing the offensive side of the ball during the 80s. On Arch I'd say he was more of a Gregg W mistake than Gibbs. Also the jury is still out, for me anyway, on B. Lloyd. I think the guy can make plays, he needs to have a good training camp and season. If not than he is done in Washington.
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Old 03-29-2007, 04:32 PM   #123
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Re: Maske/JLC: Gibbs Hints Redskins Might Trade Up

Just as I was trying to get my mind around the Briggs trade, Gibbs comes out with this one! I know that Calvin Johnson is a terrific WR, but we don't need him unless we can find someone to fob Brandon Lloyd off on. This idea of trading up makes NO SENSE AT ALL!
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Old 03-29-2007, 04:35 PM   #124
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Re: Maske/JLC: Gibbs Hints Redskins Might Trade Up

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Originally Posted by ArtMonkDrillz View Post
They're all a bunch of idiots! They should be going out for Italian Ice at Rita's in order to save a couple of dollars for tomorrow's dessert. Don't they know anything?
Yeah, there's no beating a Gelati from Rita's:

Custard on the bottom (Choc. Van, or the new hot pick is twist)
Ice in the middle (I hear mango has moved up a couple spots)
Custard on the bottom (the word custard just sounds delecious)
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Old 03-29-2007, 04:37 PM   #125
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Re: Maske/JLC: Gibbs Hints Redskins Might Trade Up

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Originally Posted by artmonkforhallofamein07 View Post
Alright GM I can agree with that, but didn't Gibbs have a really big part on buildiing the offensive side of the ball during the 80s. On Arch I'd say he was more of a Gregg W mistake than Gibbs. Also the jury is still out, for me anyway, on B. Lloyd. I think the guy can make plays, he needs to have a good training camp and season. If not than he is done in Washington.
Let's not just focus on AA and BLloyd. I was just throwing them out there as recent examples.
We also let Antonio Pierce walk- MLB was a big weak spot last season.
We let Ryan Clark walk- He and Taylor worked SO well together
We traded away a 2nd round pick to get Rocky who we apparently have no interest in starting
We let Walt Harris walk- he has been pro-bowl caliber for San Fran and our pass protection has fallen off a cliff
David Patten, well, injuries weren't Gibbs fault but it was still a signing that didn't pan out at all.

I know Gibbs has made his share of good moves too, but like I said, I still don't trust the man to build a team. But I think our patience this offseason is a good sign. Floyd Reese needs a job, we need a GM!
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Old 03-29-2007, 07:10 PM   #126
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Re: Maske/JLC: Gibbs Hints Redskins Might Trade Up

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The fans have the luxury of 20/20 hindsight vision.

Who traded up to aquire Jason Campbell? We all thought to ourselves, what the hell is Joe thinking?

Now we have our Franchise QB. From what I saw last year Campbell is the real deal.

Joe Gibbs is a football GOD and knows a hell of alot more about building a winning team than he gets credit for.
I really liked Campbell when he & Auburn beat my Hokies in 05 & I thought he'd make a great nfl qb, so I was really happy w/the trade to get him. It was criticized, I remember listening to espn radio when the trade was leaked before the draft & Dan Patrick ripped us for the trade. But we knew that Joe wouldn't hurry him in & we would need a qb for the future. We've got one & that shouldn't be underestimated in the least as a lot of teams don't.

So I agree, let's not knock Joe until we know more about the front office decision making. I personally think Joe is starting to exert his influence on the team, after listening to the wrong people last year. Look for him to be more hands on this year & get back to coaching.
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Old 03-29-2007, 07:11 PM   #127
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Re: Maske/JLC: Gibbs Hints Redskins Might Trade Up

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Paragraph indentations are a wonderful thing my friend. I suggest you look into them.

As far as G-Tripps first long post goes... I really tend to agree with a lot of what you're saying. Granted, your making several assumptions... (That guy pointed to the colts as a retort)... But I think in this style of offense your thinking is on the right track.


Essentially here is what I understood what you were basically saying: In any run based offense where you don't have an MVP at QB, maxamizing your options won't necessarily maximize your success, especially when it comes from neglecting greater needs.
That's essentially what I was saying.

Obviously having Calvin Johnson start across from Moss is better than having Randle El. If Moss and Cooley still get their touches, then our passing game potential should improve, albeit slightly.

What I am worried about (and this is one of the assumptions I made) is that if we were to invest SO MUCH in a guy like Calvin Johnson, how can we expect our coaching staff to still use Cooley and Moss properly? I mean, espicially in our case where the coaching staff makes personel decisions, would we honestly be able to resist the urge to call plays where CJ is the main receiver all the time? Yes, I'm making an assumption about behavior, and anybody that has argued with me knows I would have jumped all over them for making such an assumption--so im being hypocritical in a way, but I feel this is a rare, reasonable assumption. How would our front office justify a move up in the draft plus a neglection of obvious needs and then NOT use Calvin Johnson more than he should be, even at the expense of Cooley and Moss? This is why such a move would be an unmitigated disaster. In essence we would be making three costly mistakes in one:

1) Continuing to piss away draft picks
2) Neglecting obvious defensive needs
3) Potentially decreasing offensive potential depending on how disciplined Al Saunders' playcalling is

This is an example of how the cost of acquisition can compromise decision-making on the field. In today's highly competitive league, that's not something a coach can afford.

Bottom line: trading up for Calvin Johnson would be an unmitigated disaster on so many levels. We would be far better off making the Briggs deal than this.
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Old 03-29-2007, 07:53 PM   #128
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Re: Maske/JLC: Gibbs Hints Redskins Might Trade Up

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I'm gonna go ahead and avoid all the turmoil, and pain. I'll start my thread at #300. This is an out and out BS attempt at deceptive chicanery by that prankster, Joe2. PURE smoke!
I am not so sure that this is a smoke screen. I think that the Redskins believe they have improved their defense already and will be working on the scoring offense during the draft. If we do not trade up to get CJ or use the #6 pick to draft Okoye, look for a trade down and we will either select Dwayne Bowe or Robert Meacham.
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Old 03-29-2007, 07:54 PM   #129
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Re: Maske/JLC: Gibbs Hints Redskins Might Trade Up

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I really liked Campbell when he & Auburn beat my Hokies in 05 & I thought he'd make a great nfl qb, so I was really happy w/the trade to get him. It was criticized, I remember listening to espn radio when the trade was leaked before the draft & Dan Patrick ripped us for the trade. But we knew that Joe wouldn't hurry him in & we would need a qb for the future. We've got one & that shouldn't be underestimated in the least as a lot of teams don't.

So I agree, let's not knock Joe until we know more about the front office decision making. I personally think Joe is starting to exert his influence on the team, after listening to the wrong people last year. Look for him to be more hands on this year & get back to coaching.
I'm not totally bashing the guy. I'm just trying to be objective. I said in my post that he has made some good moves, but also some pretty awful ones too. Only 1 of Gibbs 3 seasons back have been really productive, and that was only b/c in late '05 we finally decided to commit to the run and went on a late tear. Obviously the man is a great coach, but he has yet to prove he can build a winner personnel-wise. I hope like hell he succeeds. I feel like we are on the right track at this point.
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Old 03-29-2007, 08:05 PM   #130
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Re: Maske/JLC: Gibbs Hints Redskins Might Trade Up

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I am not so sure that this is a smoke screen. I think that the Redskins believe they have improved their defense already and will be working on the scoring offense during the draft. If we do not trade up to get CJ or use the #6 pick to draft Okoye, look for a trade down and we will either select Dwayne Bowe or Robert Meacham.
Ummm, what about our D-line? We haven't done diddly-poo to improve it. And it was miserable last year. The first thing that comes to mind was when Tiki Barber absolutely worked us over in our house week 17. He gouged us. Just like everyone did all year. If we draft a WR in the first round it is essentially saying ARE and Lloyd probably were bad moves. I know ARE is a punt returner, but there are only so many footballs to go around. We're going to be run first as it is, Cooley will catch between 60-70 balls most likely, as will Moss, so then we have a 1st rd WR and ARE and Lloyd?? All that money for 3 guys who would at best catch around 25 passes each? Doesn't make sense to me unless we trade ARE or Lloyd, neither of whom would have much trade value right now.
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Old 03-29-2007, 08:12 PM   #131
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Re: Maske/JLC: Gibbs Hints Redskins Might Trade Up

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Ummm, what about our D-line? We haven't done diddly-poo to improve it. And it was miserable last year. The first thing that comes to mind was when Tiki Barber absolutely worked us over in our house week 17. He gouged us. Just like everyone did all year. If we draft a WR in the first round it is essentially saying ARE and Lloyd probably were bad moves. I know ARE is a punt returner, but there are only so many footballs to go around. We're going to be run first as it is, Cooley will catch between 60-70 balls most likely, as will Moss, so then we have a 1st rd WR and ARE and Lloyd?? All that money for 3 guys who would at best catch around 25 passes each? Doesn't make sense to me unless we trade ARE or Lloyd, neither of whom would have much trade value right now.
Thank you. Great post.

Bonus points for getting "diddly poo" in there without breaking stride.
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Old 03-29-2007, 08:28 PM   #132
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Re: Maske/JLC: Gibbs Hints Redskins Might Trade Up

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Ummm, what about our D-line? We haven't done diddly-poo to improve it. And it was miserable last year. The first thing that comes to mind was when Tiki Barber absolutely worked us over in our house week 17. He gouged us. Just like everyone did all year. If we draft a WR in the first round it is essentially saying ARE and Lloyd probably were bad moves. I know ARE is a punt returner, but there are only so many footballs to go around. We're going to be run first as it is, Cooley will catch between 60-70 balls most likely, as will Moss, so then we have a 1st rd WR and ARE and Lloyd?? All that money for 3 guys who would at best catch around 25 passes each? Doesn't make sense to me unless we trade ARE or Lloyd, neither of whom would have much trade value right now.
Tiki Barber worked the whole defense over. I do not think that there is one person in the draft who could've stopped that from happening. The D-line did not look that badly when we had corners that we could rely on to cover last season because they had help from other positions which is the way we played in the previous two seasons. We did not have any outstanding lineman then but we were aggresive up front with our safeties, linebackers and corners (in nickle and dime situations).

As far as Lloyd goes, sometime you just have to bite the bullet if it is going to improve a weakness. ARE is a good #3 and gadget receiver but he is not a #2. We will probably have accept the mistake that we made last season in free agency but we do not have to play Lloyd just because his wallet is fat if he is not beneficial to the team.

I look for another receiver to be drafted in the first round if we do not select Okoye.
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Old 03-29-2007, 08:29 PM   #133
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Re: Maske/JLC: Gibbs Hints Redskins Might Trade Up

i say we trade everyone we have for peyton manning
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Old 03-29-2007, 08:48 PM   #134
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Re: Maske/JLC: Gibbs Hints Redskins Might Trade Up

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i say we trade everyone we have for peyton manning
or we could trade every first round pick we have for the next 15 years for ladanian tomlinson
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Old 03-29-2007, 08:52 PM   #135
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Re: Maske/JLC: Gibbs Hints Redskins Might Trade Up

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Tiki Barber worked the whole defense over. I do not think that there is one person in the draft who could've stopped that from happening. The D-line did not look that badly when we had corners that we could rely on to cover last season because they had help from other positions which is the way we played in the previous two seasons. We did not have any outstanding lineman then but we were aggresive up front with our safeties, linebackers and corners (in nickle and dime situations).

As far as Lloyd goes, sometime you just have to bite the bullet if it is going to improve a weakness. ARE is a good #3 and gadget receiver but he is not a #2. We will probably have accept the mistake that we made last season in free agency but we do not have to play Lloyd just because his wallet is fat if he is not beneficial to the team.

I look for another receiver to be drafted in the first round if we do not select Okoye.
Well, the Dline played better in 04 and 05 than it did last year and that's just a fact. They are aging and injured often. We have to get better up front against the run. It's a flat out fact. We cannot stand pat with what we have up front on D.

Look at the offensive success Saunders had in KC. He had a massive O-line, a great running scheme, a versatile TE with glue hands, and a tall QB with a big arm. We have all of that RIGHT NOW. Eddie Kennison was the best WR he ever had in KC, and he's good, but not a gamebreaker by any means. He certainly never had 3 WRs earing $20M+ each. Lloyd is not going anywhere this year, and neither is ARE. With Campbell working with the first team offense right off the bat, his rapport with them will improve. I'd be shocked not to see better numbers from Lloyd and the entire offense for that matter without adding a thing.
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