Skins stuck at No. 6?

Sheriff Gonna Getcha · 04-12-2007, 01:16 AM

Bowe a top 5 pick? Really?

GTripp0012 · 04-12-2007, 01:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sheriff Gonna Getcha

Those are all very plausible trade scenarios and ones that would work out quite nicely. If we could indeed parlay our 6th pick for Okoye and a guy like Woodley, I would be estatic. It would be nice to add two young D-linemen - aging D-line instantly solved.

Absolutely. That would be the most ideal situation.

I'm not holding my breath that it happens though. If we could get Okoye, I'd be happy regardless of what else happened.

The most plausible draft option for the Skins is to draft Okoye at six. If we take Landry or Gaines Adams, it really does spell the end for Carter or Taylor respectively. Taylor might be allowed to play out his contract alongside Landry, but we aren't going to give him a new deal if we have a much better player in Landry already.

The way I see it, Carter and Taylor, although merely above average players, could be pieces we build around for the future. Okoye would be helpful talent to build around them. But Landry and Adams would be replacing some key veterans thus and prolonging the rebuilding process.

GTripp0012 · 04-12-2007, 01:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by offiss

As I said in earlier thread on this subject, I don't want to waste a #6 pick on a lineman just because we have a need, only to find out next draft we have the same need. Unless 1 of these linemen can dominate his position we should either trade down, and maybe get a merriman out of miami, and a Jarvis Moss/Carriker type. Or draft the best safety in the draft, Landry, He would make a huge difference compared to AA whom teams attacked at will. We also know that there are teams picking behind us that want him so it's great strategy to start giving him a big look, that will give us leverage to start trading down, how bout we move 2 spots and gain a 2nd rd pick from Atlanta who apparently is in love with Landry. Now that would give us some more bargaining power to trade down again perhaps with Carolina for a 3rd, and just maybe 1 more trade for a 2nd or 3rd before we start addressing several needs rather than 1.

Jarvis Moss and Carriker are about as far from each other in type as two ends can be. Theres a 45 LB difference between the two.

Amobi Okoye!

Sheriff Gonna Getcha · 04-12-2007, 01:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

Absolutely. That would be the most ideal situation.

I'm not holding my breath that it happens though. If we could get Okoye, I'd be happy regardless of what else happened.

But Landry and Adams would be replacing some key veterans thus and prolonging the rebuilding process.

Yeah, the reason I said it was plausible is that there is a lot of talk of the Falcons pursuing Landry. Granted it's just talk and we've heard a lot of rumors lately, but it's definately one that makes sense. Atlanta needs safety help and Landry is great talent. Moreover, Atlanta has a lot of picks.

I also agree that Adams wouldn't be the best choice given Carter, but Landry wouldn't replace Taylor. I think Taylor and Landry would be a nice duo and we have no one to play opposite Taylor for the next few years.

GTripp0012 · 04-12-2007, 01:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by offiss

I am not sold on a 6'1" tackle at the 6th spot. how much more can this grow, sounds like he's fully developed already?

What? Are you talking height or talent?

If you are talking height, 6' 1" seems adequate at least. Most DTs are 6' 3" or 6' 4", and although every inch helps, 6' 1" isn't exactly small. If anything, it will help him play with leverage vs. the run against bigger interior linemen.

Remember, he was dominant at the college level and his height was just as much of a factor there if not more than it will be at the professional level.

If you are talking about talent, I completely disagree. He's going to grow roughly at the same rate that ALL DT's do. The difference is he's legitmately the best DT prospect in the last few drafts as of right now, and he's going to be one of the most dominant DT's in the league in a few years. You can't ever have the maximum possible amount of experience. There's no such thing. Every player in the league, including Peyton Manning, can always improve his understanding of the game and his opponents. Okoye just has a big starting advantage over every other DL in this draft class.

Sheriff Gonna Getcha · 04-12-2007, 01:30 AM

Warren Sapp is "just" 6'2". Speaking of Sapp, did anyone realize the guy had TEN sacks last season?

jrocx69 · 04-12-2007, 01:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by offiss

I am not sold on a 6'1" tackle at the 6th spot. how much more can this grow, sounds like he's fully developed already?

he's only 19 and maybe only 6'1 but is very smart and very big and quick. everytime i see film i like him more and more. and branch is just to big of a reach at #6. i wouldnt mind seeing landry drafted either, after seeing the db's last season (especially SS) i would love to solidify the safety position and landry is one of the most "sure picks" along with calvin johnson and patrick willis.

Sheriff Gonna Getcha · 04-12-2007, 01:34 AM

Okoye's pretty dominant offiss. I wish I could say I closely followed his college career, but I did not. However, in reading the scouting reports I became really interested in the guy. Then, watching him at the Senior Bowl and in the Senior Bowl practices, I was really impressed. He was absolutely devastating double-teams.

Sheriff Gonna Getcha · 04-12-2007, 01:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jrocx69

i would love to solidify the safety position and landry is one of the most "sure picks" along with calvin johnson and patrick willis.

Yeah, had we not gotten Fletcher, I would've supported going after Willis after trading down. Like Okoye, I fell in love with the guy after learning about him (hence my "I heart Patrick Willis" threads from a few months ago).

KLHJ2 · 04-12-2007, 01:38 AM

I believe that Carriker is better suited for the 3-4 as a DE because of his size.

GTripp0012 · 04-12-2007, 01:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sheriff Gonna Getcha

I also agree that Adams wouldn't be the best choice given Carter, but Landry wouldn't replace Taylor. I think Taylor and Landry would be a nice duo and we have no one to play opposite Taylor for the next few years.

For one thing, when it comes time to pay them the big bucks, we won't be able to afford to pay both. If we were to pay Taylor when his contract came up, we wouldn't be able to give Landry much when his rookie deal ran out.

Also, isn't using two top ten picks in a span of 4 drafts on a position as fungible as safety always a bad idea?

If Sean Taylor really was everything we wanted in a safety, there would be no reason to go get Landry when players like Prioleau or Stoutmire can step in at little cost with virtually no dropoff. To me, for one, taking Landry this high would essentially be admitting that taking Taylor at no. 5 in 2004 was a mistake.

It very well might have been. I kinda see ST as a bit of a Roy Williams effect, a guy who's skill set is just not cut out to be successful with the way the game is being played today. While I think Taylor's top end potential is as a slightly above league average safety, and Williams is as a below league average safety, I'll be really surprised if Taylor ever justifies the 6th pick.

I think Landry is much more cut out for the game that is being played today and his 4 years of playing experience at LSU make him a dream safety prospect, but two top 6 picks playing safety for your team seems like the definition of overkill.

If we had used the ST pick on Tommie Harris, who is best comparable I can give you to Amobi Okoye, we wouldn't be having this discussion. We'd just be drafting Landry. But because we took Taylor, I say we live with our decision, and take Okoye to stop some of the DL bleeding.

I don't know whos going to be the better NFL player, Okoye or Landry. Both are wonderful, top 5 prospects. But I know who the Skins need to take.

So, yeah, I agree that Taylor and Landry would play side by side for a few years, but we'd still have no real pass rush to save Taylor from some weak cover skills. He'd be victimized all season long.

GTripp0012 · 04-12-2007, 01:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by angryssg

I believe that Carriker is better suited for the 3-4 as a DE because of his size.

Carriker would be the ideal Daniels replacement, but he's not worth the 6th pick. Plus, DE is a position that would be better addressed after one more season of evaluating Carter.

GTripp0012 · 04-12-2007, 01:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by offiss

Gtripp, I really have to start questioning your eye for talent, first you have Bowe going in the top 5, then you have Taylor out the door because Landry is a better player if we draft him? Are you kidding? You don't draft 1 safety to replace a young all pro safety who's proven, and I would fall over if Landry turned out to be as much as equal to Taylor as a football player, if Landry is drafted it's to compliment Taylor as well as free him up to free lance a little more and allow him to ball hawk and go for the big hit, as well to provide more help for our CB's. Carter IMO was a waste, we saw last season why the 9ers tried to move him to LB, but to say it's the end of him? There is such a thing as a salary cap, good luck dumping his contract.

I would like to know what's so great about Okoye? Other than the fact that he play's D-line?

Okoye is 19 with 4 years of college experience, and yet, still he's a very dominant player. Quite simply, a player like him will never come again. He's the once in a lifetime prospect in this draft. If you wanted a guy with CJ type of talent, you could go trade for Randy Moss. If you wanted Okoye you'd have to draft him.

Back to your initial paragraph, I don't have Bowe going in the top 5. I'm saying that Dwayne Bowe is going to be one of the 5 or 6 best players to come out of the first round of this draft, and the best receiver in this class. This may sound like heresy to people who read dradt websites all day and listen to sportswriters rave about Calvin Johnson's skill, but that's really not what being a good receiver is all about. Good receivers have to be smart and experienced and Dwayne Bowe has one more year of starting experience in a tougher conference than Johnson does. I believe he will transition to the NFL much better than Johnson will.

I also believe that with all the hype around Johnson, the physical abilities of a guy like Bowe are being overlooked. He's 33% more prepared for the NFL than Johnson is--or will ever be--and I don't believe the gap in skill is all that much. That's why I'm certain that Bowe will be the better player.

I hate to use the theory of natural selection to explain a point in football, especially since I'm kinda religious and believe that natural selection is just a pricipal of natural law, but I'm about to make a point with it. Sean Taylor's ability to come up and hit the ballcarrier is always fun to watch. But at the end of the play, its no more effective than any other type of tackle that stops the ballcarrier in his tracks. The NFL is transistioning to a faster league on the interrior, which means that safeties without great cover skills are starting to become more of a liability to their teams then they were a decade ago. Roy Williams is a prime example. He's a great safety if he's playing in the 90's. But his lack of cover skills costs the Cowboys A LOT of points. Guys like him are becoming obsolete, and he will never even be an average safety in this league. Taylor isn't quite as bad, but he's not nearly as dominant as his rep would have you think. He also costs the Redskins some points by lacking cover skills. He can cover somewhat well, so at least he deserves to be a starter.

Guys like Landry are instinctive and impressive in coverage. They are the truely valuable safeties in today's game. Landry will have a long impressive career, and won't cost his team anything in points that any other safety in the league would have stopped. He's great value.

Guys like Williams are becoming extinct, and its that same phenemon that hurts Taylor's effect as a player.

GTripp0012 · 04-12-2007, 01:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by offiss

It will also not allow him to knock down passes, it sounds like you have the dynamics of leverage all worked out, hopefully all the NFL lineman read your post so they can start preparing to be pushed around by this 6'1" monster.

Negatives: Shorter than ideal, causing problems when he fails to keep his hands active trying to fill the rush lanes and the center gets assistance in blocking him out (susceptible to cut blocks)...Can push the pocket, but seems to lack the closing burst needed to get to the quarterback consistently (needs to finish better)...His size could be a problem in a one-gap system...While he delivers punishing hand swipes in closed quarters, he can get reckless while operating in space...Does not possess sustained speed to pursue long distances, working better in the short area...Lost bulk to improve his stamina, but needs to put some back on to compete against the bigger blockers at the pro level...Very good in run containment, but he lacks pass rush moves despite eight sacks as a senior...Can move laterally with some effectiveness, but will struggle to redirect and is slow to recover when taking a wide loop in backside pursuit...Can push the pocket and has good initial quickness, but lacks the sudden speed to close on the quarterback...Even though he is known to clog the middle, only two of his 55 tackles in 2006 came inside the red zone.

Compares To: JONATHAN BABINEAUX-Atlanta...Neither player can be measured on his size, as their heart and desire to make the play are their biggest assets. Both show a good short-area burst and excellent upper body strength to clog the middle and split double teams. While neither is known for his pass rushing skills, both are quite effective at keeping their feet and anchoring to shut down the inside rush lanes.

That does not sound like a top 10 player, it sounds more like a guy who will have his hands full with bigger and better lineman in the NFL. This kid is not Warren Sapp!

Uh, I don't know who wrote that scouting report, but you'd be foolish to weigh it anymore than my scouting report. At best, you just have dissenting opinions. From my point of view, that report is on crack.

I understand that the difference between 6' 1" and 6' 3" may cost us 1-2 tipped passes a season with Okoye in there, but who really cares. If he's anywhere near as dominant as he was in college, he will make up for much much more than 1.5 tipped passes per season. At 6' 1", hes still going to get a fair share of tips.

KLHJ2 · 04-12-2007, 01:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

Uh, I don't know who wrote that scouting report, but you'd be foolish to weigh it anymore than my scouting report. At best, you just have dissenting opinions. From my point of view, that report is on crack.

I understand that the difference between 6' 1" and 6' 3" may cost us 1-2 tipped passes a season with Okoye in there, but who really cares. If he's anywhere near as dominant as he was in college, he will make up for much much more than 1.5 tipped passes per season. At 6' 1", hes still going to get a fair share of tips.

Somebody's been watching a little too much NFL Network.

04-12-2007, 01:16 AM	#31
Sheriff Gonna Getcha Franchise Player Join Date: Feb 2004 Age: 34 Posts: 8,317	Re: Skins stuck at No. 6? Bowe a top 5 pick? Really?

04-12-2007, 01:30 AM	#36
Sheriff Gonna Getcha Franchise Player Join Date: Feb 2004 Age: 34 Posts: 8,317	Re: Skins stuck at No. 6? Warren Sapp is "just" 6'2". Speaking of Sapp, did anyone realize the guy had TEN sacks last season?

04-12-2007, 01:34 AM	#38
Sheriff Gonna Getcha Franchise Player Join Date: Feb 2004 Age: 34 Posts: 8,317	Re: Skins stuck at No. 6? Okoye's pretty dominant offiss. I wish I could say I closely followed his college career, but I did not. However, in reading the scouting reports I became really interested in the guy. Then, watching him at the Senior Bowl and in the Senior Bowl practices, I was really impressed. He was absolutely devastating double-teams.

04-12-2007, 01:38 AM	#40
KLHJ2 Pro Bowl Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: DC Metro Area Age: 34 Posts: 5,823	Re: Skins stuck at No. 6? I believe that Carriker is better suited for the 3-4 as a DE because of his size. __________________ Read "The Book", life will gain meaning.

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Skins stuck at No. 6?

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