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Skins stuck at No. 6?

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Old 04-12-2007, 02:40 AM   #46
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Re: Skins stuck at No. 6?

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Originally Posted by angryssg View Post
I believe that Carriker is better suited for the 3-4 as a DE because of his size.
Carriker would be the ideal Daniels replacement, but he's not worth the 6th pick. Plus, DE is a position that would be better addressed after one more season of evaluating Carter.
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Old 04-12-2007, 02:48 AM   #47
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Re: Skins stuck at No. 6?

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What? Are you talking height or talent?

If you are talking height, 6' 1" seems adequate at least. Most DTs are 6' 3" or 6' 4", and although every inch helps, 6' 1" isn't exactly small. If anything, it will help him play with leverage vs. the run against bigger interior linemen.

Remember, he was dominant at the college level and his height was just as much of a factor there if not more than it will be at the professional level.

If you are talking about talent, I completely disagree. He's going to grow roughly at the same rate that ALL DT's do. The difference is he's legitmately the best DT prospect in the last few drafts as of right now, and he's going to be one of the most dominant DT's in the league in a few years. You can't ever have the maximum possible amount of experience. There's no such thing. Every player in the league, including Peyton Manning, can always improve his understanding of the game and his opponents. Okoye just has a big starting advantage over every other DL in this draft class.

It will also not allow him to knock down passes, it sounds like you have the dynamics of leverage all worked out, hopefully all the NFL lineman read your post so they can start preparing to be pushed around by this 6'1" monster.


Negatives: Shorter than ideal, causing problems when he fails to keep his hands active trying to fill the rush lanes and the center gets assistance in blocking him out (susceptible to cut blocks)...Can push the pocket, but seems to lack the closing burst needed to get to the quarterback consistently (needs to finish better)...His size could be a problem in a one-gap system...While he delivers punishing hand swipes in closed quarters, he can get reckless while operating in space...Does not possess sustained speed to pursue long distances, working better in the short area...Lost bulk to improve his stamina, but needs to put some back on to compete against the bigger blockers at the pro level...Very good in run containment, but he lacks pass rush moves despite eight sacks as a senior...Can move laterally with some effectiveness, but will struggle to redirect and is slow to recover when taking a wide loop in backside pursuit...Can push the pocket and has good initial quickness, but lacks the sudden speed to close on the quarterback...Even though he is known to clog the middle, only two of his 55 tackles in 2006 came inside the red zone.

Compares To: JONATHAN BABINEAUX-Atlanta...Neither player can be measured on his size, as their heart and desire to make the play are their biggest assets. Both show a good short-area burst and excellent upper body strength to clog the middle and split double teams. While neither is known for his pass rushing skills, both are quite effective at keeping their feet and anchoring to shut down the inside rush lanes.


That does not sound like a top 10 player, it sounds more like a guy who will have his hands full with bigger and better lineman in the NFL. This kid is not Warren Sapp!
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Old 04-12-2007, 02:53 AM   #48
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Re: Skins stuck at No. 6?

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Gtripp, I really have to start questioning your eye for talent, first you have Bowe going in the top 5, then you have Taylor out the door because Landry is a better player if we draft him? Are you kidding? You don't draft 1 safety to replace a young all pro safety who's proven, and I would fall over if Landry turned out to be as much as equal to Taylor as a football player, if Landry is drafted it's to compliment Taylor as well as free him up to free lance a little more and allow him to ball hawk and go for the big hit, as well to provide more help for our CB's. Carter IMO was a waste, we saw last season why the 9ers tried to move him to LB, but to say it's the end of him? There is such a thing as a salary cap, good luck dumping his contract.

I would like to know what's so great about Okoye? Other than the fact that he play's D-line?
Okoye is 19 with 4 years of college experience, and yet, still he's a very dominant player. Quite simply, a player like him will never come again. He's the once in a lifetime prospect in this draft. If you wanted a guy with CJ type of talent, you could go trade for Randy Moss. If you wanted Okoye you'd have to draft him.

Back to your initial paragraph, I don't have Bowe going in the top 5. I'm saying that Dwayne Bowe is going to be one of the 5 or 6 best players to come out of the first round of this draft, and the best receiver in this class. This may sound like heresy to people who read dradt websites all day and listen to sportswriters rave about Calvin Johnson's skill, but that's really not what being a good receiver is all about. Good receivers have to be smart and experienced and Dwayne Bowe has one more year of starting experience in a tougher conference than Johnson does. I believe he will transition to the NFL much better than Johnson will.

I also believe that with all the hype around Johnson, the physical abilities of a guy like Bowe are being overlooked. He's 33% more prepared for the NFL than Johnson is--or will ever be--and I don't believe the gap in skill is all that much. That's why I'm certain that Bowe will be the better player.

I hate to use the theory of natural selection to explain a point in football, especially since I'm kinda religious and believe that natural selection is just a pricipal of natural law, but I'm about to make a point with it. Sean Taylor's ability to come up and hit the ballcarrier is always fun to watch. But at the end of the play, its no more effective than any other type of tackle that stops the ballcarrier in his tracks. The NFL is transistioning to a faster league on the interrior, which means that safeties without great cover skills are starting to become more of a liability to their teams then they were a decade ago. Roy Williams is a prime example. He's a great safety if he's playing in the 90's. But his lack of cover skills costs the Cowboys A LOT of points. Guys like him are becoming obsolete, and he will never even be an average safety in this league. Taylor isn't quite as bad, but he's not nearly as dominant as his rep would have you think. He also costs the Redskins some points by lacking cover skills. He can cover somewhat well, so at least he deserves to be a starter.

Guys like Landry are instinctive and impressive in coverage. They are the truely valuable safeties in today's game. Landry will have a long impressive career, and won't cost his team anything in points that any other safety in the league would have stopped. He's great value.

Guys like Williams are becoming extinct, and its that same phenemon that hurts Taylor's effect as a player.
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Old 04-12-2007, 02:56 AM   #49
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Re: Skins stuck at No. 6?

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It will also not allow him to knock down passes, it sounds like you have the dynamics of leverage all worked out, hopefully all the NFL lineman read your post so they can start preparing to be pushed around by this 6'1" monster.


Negatives: Shorter than ideal, causing problems when he fails to keep his hands active trying to fill the rush lanes and the center gets assistance in blocking him out (susceptible to cut blocks)...Can push the pocket, but seems to lack the closing burst needed to get to the quarterback consistently (needs to finish better)...His size could be a problem in a one-gap system...While he delivers punishing hand swipes in closed quarters, he can get reckless while operating in space...Does not possess sustained speed to pursue long distances, working better in the short area...Lost bulk to improve his stamina, but needs to put some back on to compete against the bigger blockers at the pro level...Very good in run containment, but he lacks pass rush moves despite eight sacks as a senior...Can move laterally with some effectiveness, but will struggle to redirect and is slow to recover when taking a wide loop in backside pursuit...Can push the pocket and has good initial quickness, but lacks the sudden speed to close on the quarterback...Even though he is known to clog the middle, only two of his 55 tackles in 2006 came inside the red zone.

Compares To: JONATHAN BABINEAUX-Atlanta...Neither player can be measured on his size, as their heart and desire to make the play are their biggest assets. Both show a good short-area burst and excellent upper body strength to clog the middle and split double teams. While neither is known for his pass rushing skills, both are quite effective at keeping their feet and anchoring to shut down the inside rush lanes.


That does not sound like a top 10 player, it sounds more like a guy who will have his hands full with bigger and better lineman in the NFL. This kid is not Warren Sapp!
Uh, I don't know who wrote that scouting report, but you'd be foolish to weigh it anymore than my scouting report. At best, you just have dissenting opinions. From my point of view, that report is on crack.

I understand that the difference between 6' 1" and 6' 3" may cost us 1-2 tipped passes a season with Okoye in there, but who really cares. If he's anywhere near as dominant as he was in college, he will make up for much much more than 1.5 tipped passes per season. At 6' 1", hes still going to get a fair share of tips.
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Old 04-12-2007, 02:58 AM   #50
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Re: Skins stuck at No. 6?

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Uh, I don't know who wrote that scouting report, but you'd be foolish to weigh it anymore than my scouting report. At best, you just have dissenting opinions. From my point of view, that report is on crack.

I understand that the difference between 6' 1" and 6' 3" may cost us 1-2 tipped passes a season with Okoye in there, but who really cares. If he's anywhere near as dominant as he was in college, he will make up for much much more than 1.5 tipped passes per season. At 6' 1", hes still going to get a fair share of tips.
Somebody's been watching a little too much NFL Network.
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Old 04-12-2007, 03:02 AM   #51
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Re: Skins stuck at No. 6?

For the record, this is the scouting report Offiss excerpted

NFL.com - Prospect Profiles
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Old 04-12-2007, 03:06 AM   #52
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Re: Skins stuck at No. 6?

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For the record, this is the scouting report Offiss excerpted

NFL.com - Prospect Profiles
OK, thanks for the link.

He's 7 months older than me! That's crazy.
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Old 04-12-2007, 03:09 AM   #53
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Re: Skins stuck at No. 6?

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Somebody's been watching a little too much NFL Network.
Just saying that using Jonathon Babineaux as a comp seems kinda biased. I mean, I know the whole idea behind comparibles is completely subjective, but if they are projecting him to be the quality of a 6th round pick, then I'm not going to take them seriously.
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Old 04-12-2007, 09:33 AM   #54
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Re: Skins stuck at No. 6?

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good let them stay at six draft landry since they hate adams use the remaining 4 day to picks on d lineman could find a diamond in the ruff there and sign ian scott i cant stress that enough
Have we spoke to Ian yet?
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Old 04-12-2007, 09:44 AM   #55
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Re: Skins stuck at No. 6?

I've read all these posts & it seems about half of us at least understand that the Skins may not actually be interested in Landry at all, but by showing interest increase the chances that Atl or Minn. (or whoever) will offer a pick or two to move up to snag him.

I wouldn't be shocked if we drafted him, but I don't think he's our guy at all. I think Okoye is, because he's a great player but also his personal style seems like it fits Gibbs' ideals. Same could be said for Jamaal Anderson. See this link:

ESPN.com - NFL/DRAFT07 - Friend: Anderson knows every day is Father's Day
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Old 04-12-2007, 10:30 AM   #56
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Re: Skins stuck at No. 6?

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So in every one's opinion there is no DL in the draft worthy of a top 10 selection?

no there are 3
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Old 04-12-2007, 10:33 AM   #57
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Re: Skins stuck at No. 6?

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Bowe a top 5 pick? Really?

no
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Old 04-12-2007, 10:40 AM   #58
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Re: Skins stuck at No. 6?

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Absolutely. That would be the most ideal situation.

I'm not holding my breath that it happens though. If we could get Okoye, I'd be happy regardless of what else happened.

The most plausible draft option for the Skins is to draft Okoye at six. If we take Landry or Gaines Adams, it really does spell the end for Carter or Taylor respectively. Taylor might be allowed to play out his contract alongside Landry, but we aren't going to give him a new deal if we have a much better player in Landry already.

The way I see it, Carter and Taylor, although merely above average players, could be pieces we build around for the future. Okoye would be helpful talent to build around them. But Landry and Adams would be replacing some key veterans thus and prolonging the rebuilding process.
isnt okoye going to be replacing a garbage vet too and since when is sean taylor merely above average? the guy is the 3rd best free safety in the leagur behind dawkins and reed but he is still a force his problem is he would rather go for the huge hit than the pick or breakup once he stops that he will be the best safety in the league and once he gets a safety that will allow him to roam the entire field like ed reed does and what he was able to do in college so landry or merriweather or micheal griffin or reggie nelson would make sense to that extent and what makes everyone so sure just drafting okoye would instantly solove the d line problems yeah he has tremendous upside but so did heath shuler and william green and tj duckett nothing is for sure so dont be expecting great things just yet lets all just relax and take a wait and see process cause the skins will do something on draft day and lets face it no matter who we get whether it be d lineman safety or in a bizzare turn calvin johnson we are going to cheer for him and get his jersey anyway so 16 long days
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Old 04-12-2007, 10:41 AM   #59
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Re: Skins stuck at No. 6?

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Have we spoke to Ian yet?

sure havent
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Old 04-12-2007, 10:42 AM   #60
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Re: Skins stuck at No. 6?

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Uh, I don't know who wrote that scouting report, but you'd be foolish to weigh it anymore than my scouting report. At best, you just have dissenting opinions. From my point of view, that report is on crack.

I understand that the difference between 6' 1" and 6' 3" may cost us 1-2 tipped passes a season with Okoye in there, but who really cares. If he's anywhere near as dominant as he was in college, he will make up for much much more than 1.5 tipped passes per season. At 6' 1", hes still going to get a fair share of tips.
not to mention he is 19 and he will more than likely keep growing untill he is 21
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