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Using a high pick on QB.

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Old 03-21-2008, 04:12 PM   #46
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Re: Using a high pick on QB.

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Its always easier with 20/20 hindsight. Of course if he could have played Gibbs wouldnt have had a problem but like you said, he couldnt. So far, its not clear that JC is startinig material so like you say, if he shows he can play Zorn will keep him. The problem is its not obvious that JC is starting material.
I think you mean, its not certain.

It IS pretty obvious, but you CAN make an argument to the contrary.
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Old 03-21-2008, 04:14 PM   #47
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Re: Using a high pick on QB.

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Not a whole lot of drafted QBs can come in their first two years and play above average football.

And yes, Campbell needs to get better to take us to the next level, but history tells us to be optimistic here.

Is it really so bad to have a QB who is giving us a few years of above average football before he fully matures? I understand you want the results as soon as possible, so do the rest of us, but he's been good so far, why temper the expectations for him?

I definately wouldn't f with his mechanics. Sure the delivery isn't ideal, but it doesn't make nearly enough of a difference to risk making the guy uncomfortable in the pocket.
Above average football? If you think what JC is playing above average, I'd hate to see what you think average is. Also, like I said before, I just dont think many teams give up 3 draft picks for a QB that 3+ years down the line is playing at best, above average football. If JC had been drafted without giving up the 3 picks it wouldnt be nearly so bad but the Skins gave up 3 picks for a QB that may or may not be starting material. Thats just not acceptable.
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Old 03-21-2008, 04:17 PM   #48
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Re: Using a high pick on QB.

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I think you mean, its not certain.

It IS pretty obvious, but you CAN make an argument to the contrary.
No, I mean its not clear. 2 of the 3 kinds of passes he cant consistently complete (short & mid range). He's been in the league awhile now and still is very inconsistent and inaccurate. I mean there is still doubt if he is starting material.
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Old 03-21-2008, 04:33 PM   #49
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Re: Using a high pick on QB.

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Above average football? If you think what JC is playing above average, I'd hate to see what you think average is. Also, like I said before, I just dont think many teams give up 3 draft picks for a QB that 3+ years down the line is playing at best, above average football. If JC had been drafted without giving up the 3 picks it wouldnt be nearly so bad but the Skins gave up 3 picks for a QB that may or may not be starting material. Thats just not acceptable.
Here's your definition of average (at least in 2007):

Jon Kitna

And while the picks determine if the Redskins got stiffed on the deal or not, it doesn't change how above/below average Campbell's play is.
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Old 03-21-2008, 06:25 PM   #50
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Re: Using a high pick on QB.

draft flacco, i think he has got, ive seen him play. big arm, big boy.
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Old 03-21-2008, 07:55 PM   #51
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Re: Using a high pick on QB.

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draft flacco, i think he has got, ive seen him play. big arm, big boy.
Uh-oh...our first out and out proponent for drafting a QB high with our picks. Let the scuttlebutt begin!

Maybe a QB with the 2nd to 4th selection (in the third round hopefully). Someone young that Zorn can start training early so we can maximize Zorn's QB coaching prowess. Who knows maybe Zorn's time here is shortlived at 3 to 4 years, he needs to get a young QB to mold early in his coaching career before its over.

I can maybe be talked into drafting a QB with our 2nd to 4th selection this year? It's possible. I'm on the fence.
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Old 03-21-2008, 08:08 PM   #52
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Re: Using a high pick on QB.

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Here's your definition of average (at least in 2007):

Jon Kitna

And while the picks determine if the Redskins got stiffed on the deal or not, it doesn't change how above/below average Campbell's play is.
Just for reference he thought our D was 'mediocre' last year.
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Old 03-22-2008, 09:08 AM   #53
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Re: Using a high pick on QB.

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Above average football? If you think what JC is playing above average, I'd hate to see what you think average is. Also, like I said before, I just dont think many teams give up 3 draft picks for a QB that 3+ years down the line is playing at best, above average football. If JC had been drafted without giving up the 3 picks it wouldnt be nearly so bad but the Skins gave up 3 picks for a QB that may or may not be starting material. Thats just not acceptable.
You can't already judge how good or bad JC is, he hasn't even had a chance to start for a full year, if he hadn't gotten hurt these last few games he would have ended the year with like 3500 yards then you wouldn't even have had this arguement, it's not fair to judge someone that has started only 20 games in his entire career.
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Old 03-22-2008, 11:16 AM   #54
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Re: Using a high pick on QB.

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Here's your definition of average (at least in 2007):

Jon Kitna

And while the picks determine if the Redskins got stiffed on the deal or not, it doesn't change how above/below average Campbell's play is.
Looking at JC's stats vs Kitna and extrapolating out to account for JC's injury, its obvious that JC would have ended up having about an average season (assuming Kitna is really the average). So all those saying JC was playing above average, the stats dont bear that out.

I think its more than fair to evaluate whether a player is worth having given up 3 draft picks even with the little playing time JC has had. Teams doet give up 3 draft picks for player that might play 3 or 4 years down the line, they give those up for players that will be starting and making an impact by week 10. The fact that JC has sat around for 3 years and played so average when he did finally get the chance to play makes it look even more questionable as to whether he has what it takes. JC may very well end up an average starter for the Skins or some other team but the Skins didnt give up 3 draft picks for an average QB. Those are available aplenty in lower rounds or via free agency.
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Old 03-22-2008, 11:41 AM   #55
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Re: Using a high pick on QB.

in a way, i kind of agree. lets put it to redskin fans this way, this is a BIG year for Campbell. he had better develope the way the redskins front office envisioned. or the skins will have wasted that pick, and still be in the market for a "franchise" quarterback
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Old 03-22-2008, 12:11 PM   #56
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Re: Using a high pick on QB.

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You can't already judge how good or bad JC is, he hasn't even had a chance to start for a full year, if he hadn't gotten hurt these last few games he would have ended the year with like 3500 yards then you wouldn't even have had this arguement, it's not fair to judge someone that has started only 20 games in his entire career.

I believe if Campbell didn't get hurt and played the rest of the year, I think that we don't make the playoffs...is that bad?

I guess I'm saying I don't think he had the ability to take us to the playoffs last year. Now, does that carry over into this year? Who knows but being that it is my opinion that he couldn't do it last year he would have to show marked improvement during this offseason.

Yet again it comes to wait and see, but we can be proactive and wait and see with a home grown QB ready to play if he were to falter.
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Old 03-22-2008, 03:13 PM   #57
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Re: Using a high pick on QB.

They Need To Pick Up Colt Brennan On The Second Day And Thats It!!!
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Old 03-22-2008, 03:24 PM   #58
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Re: Using a high pick on QB.

I think JC was affected by Gibbs conservative play and the complexity of the AS' playbook. Look how much more aggressive the offense was with Todd Collins? Gibbs always liked the old QBs and I think circumstances forced him to go with JC. That said, I think this is a make or break year for JC, he has a coach that should make him better as a QB and possibly an aggressive offense. I think after this upcoming season, if JC doesn't pan out, the team should look at other options. I really hope it doesn't come out to that, and hopefully JC becomes the franchise QB we all want him to be.
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Old 03-22-2008, 05:03 PM   #59
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Re: Using a high pick on QB.

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It hasn't been talked about much on Warpath but what do you think the feasibility is of drafting a young QB early this year .
I think drafting a QB early would be a waste of an early pick.
We have much more pressing needs to address in the draft than QB.

I've never heard Vinnie C comment about taking a QB. It's probably just a rumor form the Jason Campbell haters out there.

-I'm sure Campbell will do well in Zorn's offense and we have a quality back-up in Collins.
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Old 03-22-2008, 07:33 PM   #60
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Re: Using a high pick on QB.

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Looking at JC's stats vs Kitna and extrapolating out to account for JC's injury, its obvious that JC would have ended up having about an average season (assuming Kitna is really the average). So all those saying JC was playing above average, the stats dont bear that out.

I think its more than fair to evaluate whether a player is worth having given up 3 draft picks even with the little playing time JC has had. Teams doet give up 3 draft picks for player that might play 3 or 4 years down the line, they give those up for players that will be starting and making an impact by week 10. The fact that JC has sat around for 3 years and played so average when he did finally get the chance to play makes it look even more questionable as to whether he has what it takes. JC may very well end up an average starter for the Skins or some other team but the Skins didnt give up 3 draft picks for an average QB. Those are available aplenty in lower rounds or via free agency.
Fair enough, as I said before though, you CAN make the argument that JC's season getting cut 4 games short prevented his numbers from regressing back towards the mean. I mean, that idea makes sense, but it is what it is: a very pessimistic view of a season by a third year QB.

Regarding the picks, I think the nature of the franchise QB makes it so that getting one trumps most value that was given to get him. In the case of the Redskins, the issue is not whether Campbell should have been the 25th pick in the 2005 draft nor does it have much to do with Campbell in particular. For the Redskins, the alternative was drafting Campbell with the 9th overall pick in the draft...or trading the next years first round selection plus a third rounder for the pick that would become Campbell. Because Campbell graded out as a late first, early second guy for most teams, and the Redskins valued him much higher than that, it made sense for the team to use their 2006 1st rounder a year early (would have been the 23rd pick)...which is exactly what they did.

Here's the bigger point. He's was a third year player. By my measures he was above average, and by yours he was average. He's not nearly as good as he will be, which is why I think you are premature in calling this a make or break year for him. Nobody in the world thinks he's done growing, and that's not going to change if we see more of the same from him this year.
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