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We must draft OL early!

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Old 03-24-2008, 10:20 AM   #16
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Re: We must draft OL early!

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Originally Posted by Mattyk72 View Post
OL is a spot where you can pick up quality talent in the later rounds. I think we have other more pressing needs.
I agree for the most part, but if B. Albert is available at #21 I think it's a tough decision. O linemean are available in later rounds, but there's also a smaller bust factor in picking them. Of course there's the mandarich & gallery examples, but I can't think of many more.

I always think of 2000 as a great example of draft decision making; we took Samuels w/the #3 pick & passed on Peter Warrick, who the bengals got a couple picks later I think. We got a durable, franchise all pro LT & warrick is a career journeyman.

I'm not saying that it's that simple for the front office, but I think if an o line prospect looks really good, the probability seems high that the pick pays off in the end. Albert looks as close to a sure thing as there is.
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Old 03-24-2008, 10:29 AM   #17
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Re: We must draft OL early!

Looking back at the original Hogs, May was a first round pick and Grimm was 3rd round.
Jacoby was a free agent. Bostic was cut by Eagles and we signed him to be long snapper. I'm not 100% positive on how we acquired Strake.

I feel we can find good OL in later round or via UDFA.
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Old 03-24-2008, 10:38 AM   #18
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Re: We must draft OL early!

The more I hear about Albert- the more I like the guy. I hope the skins take him in the first. And, the more I think about it the interior of the OL, G and C, needs help more than any other area on the team. Then DT, DE, S, CB. I'd be very happy if the first 4 picks were on the DL and OL. Although the 1st rounder needs to be BAP. May turn out to be a corner. Still I'd be annoyed if the skins pass on Albert. Monster guard- safe pick. And, Samuals-Albert on the left side would be pretty impossing for the next few years.
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Old 03-24-2008, 12:10 PM   #19
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Re: We must draft OL early!

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Originally Posted by riggins44 View Post
Looking back at the original Hogs, May was a first round pick and Grimm was 3rd round.
Jacoby was a free agent. Bostic was cut by Eagles and we signed him to be long snapper. I'm not 100% positive on how we acquired Strake.

I feel we can find good OL in later round or via UDFA.
That was twenty years ago. Unless your recounting their aquitisions for your own pleasure, citing the template of a system we used in a land far away isn't going to aid this discussion.

I like the pick because its not sexy. The more unsexy picks the Skins have in this draft the more we're building the core of our team. The Skins need a couple of these picks in this draft.
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Old 03-24-2008, 12:45 PM   #20
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Re: We must draft OL early!

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Originally Posted by Ruhskins View Post
Didn't we try to move a tackle into a guard spot already, and it didn't work out? I think Heyer should be groomed to replace either Jansen or Samuels.
If you are speaking of Todd Wade that guy is horrible anyway! I agree with the grooming for Jansen (cause he will be gone or retired a few years before Samuel) but if we get injury's w/ Kendall or Thomas, Heyer has that footwork to play gaurd! I think that kid is going to be a big piece of our O-Line in years to come
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Old 03-24-2008, 01:18 PM   #21
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Re: We must draft OL early!

I don't think that this forum is even necessary. We have waaaay to many holes to fill to be drafting an O-lineman in the first round,

Plus, the poll here says that the O-Line is the LAST place where we need immediate help.

If we did just that, we'd be behind the 8-ball again at the positions we need the most.

Meanwhile, we'd be hoping that marginal, lower graded, and non-first round talent would provide larger returns than expected because we chose to address depth instead of need.

I'm sure most people would say that B. Albert would come right in and start, but we all know that he isn't going to unseat a veteran like Kendal or Thomas just because he was taken first. He would be a top-tier reserve and that's it. We would still have no pass rushing DE, no CB in case Rogers doesn't come through and Springs leave next year, and we would still have to choose from what is available after there is a sure fire run at the tall, rangy, possession-type WRs at the end of the first round.

We have one of the best O-line coaches in the business in Joe Bugel, and if he can turn Stephon Heyer, and undrafted free agent, into the player that he is now, then we can surely expect for him to do that with a lower round pick on our O-Line.
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Old 03-24-2008, 01:25 PM   #22
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Re: We must draft OL early!

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Originally Posted by SkinsFanSince91 View Post
I dont think that this forum is even necessary. We have waaaay to many holes to fill to be drafting an O-lineman in the first round,

Plus, the poll here says that the O-Line is the LAST place where we need immediate help.

If we did just that, we'd be behind the 8-ball again at the positions we need the most.

Allthewhile, we'd be hoping that marginal, lower graded, and non-first round talent would provide larger returns than expected because we chose to address depth instead of need.

Im sure most people would say that B. Albert would come right in and start, but we all know that he isnt going to unseat a veteran like Kendal or Thomas just because he was taken first. He would be a top-tier reserve and thats it. We would still have no pass rushing DE, no CB in case Rogers doesnt come thru and Springs leave next year, and we would still have to choose from what is available after there is a sure fire run at the tall, rangy, posession-type WRs at the end of the frist round.

We have one fo the best O-line coaches in the Biz, and if he can turn Stephon Heyer, and undrafted free agent, into the player that he is now, then we can surely expect for him to do that with a lower round pick on our O-Line.
IMO Albert could come in and unseat Kendall very easily. Kendall was solid but he isn't going to hold up for 16 games with his knees and age. Let me ask you this. In 05 and 07 we made the playoffs and why did we lose those games? Or what was a big reason we lost? Cause we could not move the chains and get a 1/2 a yard on 4th down and an inability to protect the passer. Both years we had injuries to the o-line and had no depth. I'm not sure what the stats are for short yardage but I'd be willing to bet that we were at the bottom at converting 3rd and 4th down with a yard or less. IMO we simply can not ignore the line anymore. Especially with the age of Thomas and Kendall.
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Old 03-24-2008, 01:35 PM   #23
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Re: We must draft OL early!

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Originally Posted by Mattyk72 View Post
OL is a spot where you can pick up quality talent in the later rounds. I think we have other more pressing needs.
Couldn't you say that about any position? IMO we need to take the best player available at 21 as long as he doesn't play QB, RB or TE.
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Old 03-24-2008, 01:36 PM   #24
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Re: We must draft OL early!

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Originally Posted by skinsfan69 View Post
IMO Albert could come in and unseat Kendall very easily. Kendall was solid but he isn't going to hold up for 16 games with his knees and age. Let me ask you this. In 05 and 07 we made the playoffs and why did we lose those games? Or what was a big reason we lost? Cause we could not move the chains and get a 1/2 a yard on 4th down and an inability to protect the passer. Both years we had injuries to the o-line and had no depth. I'm not sure what the stats are for short yardage but I'd be willing to bet that we were at the bottom at converting 3rd and 4th down with a yard or less. IMO we simply can not ignore the line anymore. Especially with the age of Thomas and Kendall.
Good summary.

Albert, if he is still available, would be the best use of our first round pick. We will definately have to address D-Line this year at some point, but the second round looks like a place where a DLman who has a first round grade could fall to us...and then all of a sudden we have two "first round" picks and a great draft.
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Old 03-24-2008, 01:53 PM   #25
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Re: We must draft OL early!

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Originally Posted by skinzaholic73 View Post
Thanks man! Yes I have read on a few sites that C.Campbell is now most likely a 2nd rd. pick.
Scouts are saying he may drop out of the first day all together. He looked slow and overweight at the combine. Put up DB #'s in the bench press... and now showed up at the Miami Pro day even more overweight and sluggish. If this guy won't work to get in shape now what makes you think he'll do it after he gets paid. I want no part of Campbell in this draft.
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Old 03-24-2008, 02:01 PM   #26
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Re: We must draft OL early!

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Originally Posted by SkinsFanSince91 View Post
I don't think that this forum is even necessary. We have waaaay to many holes to fill to be drafting an O-lineman in the first round,

Plus, the poll here says that the O-Line is the LAST place where we need immediate help.

If we did just that, we'd be behind the 8-ball again at the positions we need the most.

Meanwhile, we'd be hoping that marginal, lower graded, and non-first round talent would provide larger returns than expected because we chose to address depth instead of need.

I'm sure most people would say that B. Albert would come right in and start, but we all know that he isn't going to unseat a veteran like Kendal or Thomas just because he was taken first. He would be a top-tier reserve and that's it. We would still have no pass rushing DE, no CB in case Rogers doesn't come through and Springs leave next year, and we would still have to choose from what is available after there is a sure fire run at the tall, rangy, possession-type WRs at the end of the first round.

We have one of the best O-line coaches in the business in Joe Bugel, and if he can turn Stephon Heyer, and undrafted free agent, into the player that he is now, then we can surely expect for him to do that with a lower round pick on our O-Line.
Heyer impressed last year and he may turn out to be an above average OL for the skins but he is not in the same class as Albert. Many times our offense was handcuffed because of his liabilities as a pass protector. I have no doubt Albert would take over a starting role on the skins OL next season... He's that good
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Old 03-24-2008, 02:08 PM   #27
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Re: We must draft OL early!

It'd be hard to pass up on Albert if he's there. But I do wonder if part of all this talk of getting a WR in the first round, and hardly any talk of an OL is a reflection of the team's lack of faith in Stan Hixon's ability to fully develop a WR from the scrap heap. True, we all talk about Anthony Mix but by and large we don't (and doesn't seem the FO does much either) associate Hixon with being a good teacher who can develop some raw talent; like we do with Bugel and the OL or even now Zorn and QBs.
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Old 03-24-2008, 04:53 PM   #28
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Re: We must draft OL early!

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Originally Posted by skinsfan69 View Post
IMO Albert could come in and unseat Kendall very easily. Kendall was solid but he isn't going to hold up for 16 games with his knees and age. Let me ask you this. In 05 and 07 we made the playoffs and why did we lose those games? Or what was a big reason we lost? Cause we could not move the chains and get a 1/2 a yard on 4th down and an inability to protect the passer. Both years we had injuries to the o-line and had no depth. I'm not sure what the stats are for short yardage but I'd be willing to bet that we were at the bottom at converting 3rd and 4th down with a yard or less. IMO we simply can not ignore the line anymore. Especially with the age of Thomas and Kendall.
The reason we lost teh '05 playoff wasnt due to poor o-lineplay. As I recall we finished the season as oneof thebest rushing teams in the league. Portis had a few 100 yd games in a row. The REAL reason we lost the game was the predictability of the playcalling. It was out of date and J Gibbs subsequently hired Al Saunders to spice up the offense.

As for 07-08, we suffered injuries ACROSS the board at CB. LB. OL, and Collins threw 2 interceptions that were returned for scores. It would be foolish to blame both loses on the Oline. In the playoffs, if you can not run and pass well you will lose.

Its great thatt u have a man-crush on B Albert and all, cuz I am the mayor of Jordy-ville, but why would u automatically assume a rookie can unseat a veteran like that. No jobs are given away in the league and especially with the Redskins ofensive line. I mean I dont even expect J Nelson to start if we get him. Eventually he CAN, but he will not receive a 1st round de facto starting position. I will say that he has thepotential to beat him in camp, but im not gonna assume he will start.

We need top tier talen at CB and DE. Period.

We can find WR and OLineman later on. If we were to take them in the first, I wouldn't be happy, but I wouldn't be protest either. Any pick can help. My philosophy is to address need int he first round, unless you have a top 15 pick/or somoen great falls to you like Randy Moss did when he came around.
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Old 03-24-2008, 05:07 PM   #29
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Re: We must draft OL early!

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Originally Posted by SkinsFanSince91 View Post
The reason we lost teh '05 playoff wasnt due to poor o-lineplay. As I recall we finished the season as oneof thebest rushing teams in the league. Portis had a few 100 yd games in a row. The REAL reason we lost the game was the predictability of the playcalling. It was out of date and J Gibbs subsequently hired Al Saunders to spice up the offense.

As for 07-08, we suffered injuries ACROSS the board at CB. LB. OL, and Collins threw 2 interceptions that were returned for scores. It would be foolish to blame both loses on the Oline. In the playoffs, if you can not run and pass well you will lose.

Its great thatt u have a man-crush on B Albert and all, cuz I am the mayor of Jordy-ville, but why would u automatically assume a rookie can unseat a veteran like that. No jobs are given away in the league and especially with the Redskins ofensive line. I mean I dont even expect J Nelson to start if we get him. Eventually he CAN, but he will not receive a 1st round de facto starting position. I will say that he has thepotential to beat him in camp, but im not gonna assume he will start.

We need top tier talen at CB and DE. Period.

We can find WR and OLineman later on. If we were to take them in the first, I wouldn't be happy, but I wouldn't be protest either. Any pick can help. My philosophy is to address need int he first round, unless you have a top 15 pick/or somoen great falls to you like Randy Moss did when he came around.
I beg to differ. In 05 R. Thomas was out & our running game suffered. This past year, the right side of the line couldn't stop Seattle's 1 on 1 pass rush. Kerney abused Heyer as expected. Can't blame the kid, he was just a rook. We were lucky that Kerney's hit on Collins was called an incomplete pass, it looked clear that it was a fumble. The reason we had some success is we went to the no huddle & kept them off guard.

I agree, DE & CB are big needs, but our O line hasn't had any real depth for a no. of years. Albert seems a better prospect than most of the guys that are likely to be there for us at #21. If we were talking about picking in the top 10 I wouldn't argue that he's worth taking, cause then we'd be able to land one of the top DEs. i.e. Albert might be the "best player available" when we pick.
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Old 03-24-2008, 06:25 PM   #30
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Re: We must draft OL early!

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Originally Posted by freddyg12 View Post
I beg to differ. In 05 R. Thomas was out & our running game suffered. This past year, the right side of the line couldn't stop Seattle's 1 on 1 pass rush. Kerney abused Heyer as expected. Can't blame the kid, he was just a rook. We were lucky that Kerney's hit on Collins was called an incomplete pass, it looked clear that it was a fumble. The reason we had some success is we went to the no huddle & kept them off guard.

I agree, DE & CB are big needs, but our O line hasn't had any real depth for a no. of years. Albert seems a better prospect than most of the guys that are likely to be there for us at #21. If we were talking about picking in the top 10 I wouldn't argue that he's worth taking, cause then we'd be able to land one of the top DEs. i.e. Albert might be the "best player available" when we pick.
The only way I would draft Brandon Albert is if I was sure that Jordy Nelson would drop to us in the third round, if not I'm not sure I'd be happy using a second on him, or maybe we could trade down from our second and get some picks and get him a little later.
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