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OG and OC are bigger needs than OT

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Old 01-09-2009, 02:13 PM   #16
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Re: OG and OC are bigger needs than OT

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Originally Posted by GTripp0012 View Post
Good points. I mean, just because we could do worse than sucking it up and putting Jansen back at RT next year doesn't mean we necessarily should if a better option is staring us in the face.

Of course, watching Vinny botch the WR situation last offseason, you'd have to think that even if a better option does stare us in the face, we'd go forward with Jansen anyway.
Everyones points here are valid - we all see different holes on our team, especially the lines, and it seems we all have different opinions on what needs to be fixed first...

More and more, i am becoming convinced that this team is several years away from being a contender. Several years away likely means Zorn may not be the head coach by the time we have the proper personnel to be a true competitor. Zorn possibly not being the head coach in 2-3 years means its important to get players that will be really good in any system.

For this reason, I think we would be very wise to invest our 1st and 3rd round picks in the best offensive linemen on the board. For the most part, a guard is a guard, a tackle is a tackle, and a center is a center. If the guy is really good, you can put him in any offensive system and they can have success. On the other hand, with players in the defensive front 7, the system you run is much more important to the players success. the types of DLs and LBs you select depend largely on whether you run a 3-4 or 4-3.
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Old 01-09-2009, 02:15 PM   #17
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Re: OG and OC are bigger needs than OT

I don't see Vinny drafting a O lineman in the 1st round. He hasn't had that much success (other than Dockerry). I expect him to trade down and get more picks, draft a DE in the mid 20's and maybe look at a OG in the second round.
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Old 01-09-2009, 02:20 PM   #18
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Re: OG and OC are bigger needs than OT

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Zorn possibly not being the head coach in 2-3 years means its important to get players that will be really good in any system.
Ah yes, the entire key to the NFL draft. I'm being serious though, the draft gets complicated for teams who try to nitpick early on and select system guys rather than fundamentally sound prospects they can build a team around.
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Old 01-09-2009, 02:24 PM   #19
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Re: OG and OC are bigger needs than OT

The past few years we have learned that Vinny doesn't give a damn about our real needs (O line D Line) he looks for the flashy player that will pack the crowds at FedEx turn. Thats why I see us drafting Taylor Mays or trading down to draft an OLB later in the first.

Said it here first if we stay at 13 S Taylor Mays will be our pick.
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Old 01-09-2009, 02:42 PM   #20
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Re: OG and OC are bigger needs than OT

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The past few years we have learned that Vinny doesn't give a damn about our real needs (O line D Line) he looks for the flashy player that will pack the crowds at FedEx turn. Thats why I see us drafting Taylor Mays or trading down to draft an OLB later in the first.

Said it here first if we stay at 13 S Taylor Mays will be our pick.
I agree with you. Like I said previously, it wouldn't surprise me at all if a flashy WR is available at 13 he will be a Redskin.
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Old 01-09-2009, 04:07 PM   #21
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Re: OG and OC are bigger needs than OT

I would pretty much bet the farm that Vinny wouldn't take a WR at #13. Let's call it the Matt Millen rule, nobody wants to go down that path.
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Old 01-09-2009, 04:11 PM   #22
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Re: OG and OC are bigger needs than OT

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I don't see Vinny drafting a O lineman in the 1st round. He hasn't had that much success (other than Dockerry). I expect him to trade down and get more picks, draft a DE in the mid 20's and maybe look at a OG in the second round.
Its bothered me for a while that we seem to do so well in the lower rounds of this years draft, while not doing that good of a job in rounds 1-2. I have nothing to base this next statement on, other than its a gut feeling...

We have a really good scouting department. Vinnys staff, especially Morocco Brown is a really good judge of talent... but Vinny and danny... not so much.

Personally, I think Vinnys an idiot. However, its also possible that he is doing what anyone who wants to keep their job will do - in business, your #1 customer is your boss and if you want to keep your job, you need to keep your boss happy. Vinnys boss likes to make a splash and his boss likes skill position players. His boss wants "sexy picks" in the first two rounds of the draft. So on draft day, Vinny didnt necessarily follow the recommendations of his staff. His owner wanted receivers, so Vinny went out and got some receivers. Then, in the lower rounds, Vinny adhered more closely to the information his staff has put together. This explains why we ignored our lines in the higher rounds, hit and miss on skill position players there... while being really good at picking up players in the lower rounds.

The reason i bring any of this up, is, this is the first year in a really long time that we can go into the draft without having a true NEED at ANY of the skill positions (assuming our rookie WRs develop as planned and we can keep 2 of Rogers, Hall, and Springs prior to the draft). So we can go into the draft only having needs for OL, DL, and LB. If Snyder and Vinny are "satisfied" with the skill positions, perhaps Vinny will be more inclined/able to address these areas.
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Old 01-09-2009, 04:11 PM   #23
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Re: OG and OC are bigger needs than OT

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Unfortunately, we need some help at all three Interior line positions. Pete Kendall was arguably our best lineman this year, but he is a free agent. Rabach is DONE. he's finished as a starter. Randy Thomas is done too, but unlike Rabach, he has a ridiculous cap figure.
I agree 100% about Kendall playing well, Terrel Davis even mentioned him as a pro-bowl snub AND Pete says that he wants to return.

While I wouldn't quite say that Rabach is done, i think that he struggles against some of the bigger NT/DT.
I sadly agree about Randy.
I think our line could use upgrades.

I look at the line issues from this vantage point: Imagine that the Redskins can only upgrade 1 offensive line postion which postion would you pick?

My answer is Center.

Nothing against Rabach. But, IMO the single greatest benefit to the overall line would happen if our Center could match up 1-1 with the likes of a NT/DT like Ratliff. When/if the center can hold their own the rest of the line improves automatically.

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....when you look back to the problems on our line this year, more often than ont, Campbell was getting pressured in the middle.
I think that Kendall will still be effective at 1 Guard spot and i gotta believe that Rinehart will be at least as good as Thomas.(especially since Fabini filled in for Randy last year, after the whole Wade fiasco) Buges and the media raved about Rhino all training camp and preseason yet the kid didn't see a snap of game time.
I think Rinehart's playing time was a victim of Buges loyalty to his veterans. Rinehart is one of our few young lineman and IMO they should've put him in when Thomas was struggling and let him play. Rinehart has 'upside' we can watch him improve instead of wishing that our vets return to form while we watching their play decline.

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I know the chances of Heyer developing into a stud RT are slim to none.
I don't know about this, Heyer played well last year as a rookie undrafted free agent inplace of an injured Jansen. Heyer seemed to improve each week
then beat out Jansen for the RT spot during training camp.
-If Buges still thinks that Jansen can play and all signs point to Heyer being better and not mention younger then Jansen, doesn't that mean that Heyer is at least a decent OT?

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OT is a need, for sure, but we can get by with Samuels on one side and Jansen/Heyer on the other for another year if we have an upgraded interior line.. .....
Samuels when healthy is out best lineman. But it wouldn't hurt to have a young LT waiting in the wings.



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Having a solid interior line is a MUST
And it starts with center.

My lineup if the Redskins only make 1 upgrade:
LT Samuels LG Rinehart C-*Rookie* RG-Rinehart RT- Heyer

WalterFootball.com: 2009 NFL Draft: Center Rankings

Alex Mack, California
Height: 6-5. Weight: 316.
Projected 40 Time: 5.13.
Projected Round (2009): 1.

Max Unger, Oregon
Height: 6-5. Weight: 300.
Projected 40 Time: 5.20.
Projected Round (2009): 1-2.

Jonathan Luigs, Arkansas
Height: 6-4. Weight: 314.
Projected 40 Time: 5.21.
Projected Round (2009): 2.

NFL Draft Scout Rankings has them ranked different and has none of them going in the 1st so we could even trade down from the 13th pick take another player and still land one of these guys in the 2nd round.

NFL Draft Scout Rankings, From Prep to Pro Coverage for Pros by Pros - Powered by the Sports Xchange

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Old 01-09-2009, 04:28 PM   #24
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Re: OG and OC are bigger needs than OT

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I really don't like Heyer starting unless he really gets coached up well between now and next season. I'd rather stick it out one more year with JJ.

thanks but i dont think i can play with the NFL defensive ends but seriously i agree with you heyer hasnt shown me enough to think he can be a RT for 16 games
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Old 01-09-2009, 08:12 PM   #25
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Wink Re: OG and OC are bigger needs than OT

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I would pretty much bet the farm that Vinny wouldn't take a WR at #13. Let's call it the Matt Millen rule, nobody wants to go down that path.
So , unless Matt Millen gets hired as our GM , we will not draft P. Harvin , WR , Florida Gators
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Old 01-09-2009, 08:47 PM   #26
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Re: OG and OC are bigger needs than OT

This thread assumes that Vinny will draft for a position of need.

Cerratto has consistently stated that he always drafts for Best Player Available. Most of the media who follows this team;most of the fans would say we need to draft for the OL and DL. Some of us have been saying it for years and years.

Yet, the team under Snyder has gone for anything BUT draft for the trenches. I see nothing that makes me think that Vinny will suddenly change his draft strategy this season.

Only one draft pick from last season got significant playing time - Chris Horton. One out of ten choices.

Vinny will pick poorly for the wrong positions. I'd like to see us draft a OT.
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Old 01-09-2009, 08:52 PM   #27
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Re: OG and OC are bigger needs than OT

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I really don't like Heyer starting unless he really gets coached up well between now and next season. I'd rather stick it out one more year with JJ.
I cant beleve that anyone wold want JJ in for another year. You have always been his biggest fan. Is he a personal friend of your, and I am not being sarcastic.
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Old 01-09-2009, 09:00 PM   #28
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Re: OG and OC are bigger needs than OT

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I cant beleve that anyone wold want JJ in for another year. You have always been his biggest fan. Is he a personal friend of your, and I am not being sarcastic.
Huh?

I've readily admitted that he has lost a step. But if I had to choose between the lesser of two evils I would take Jansen. Heyer just stinks at run blocking and he still has a lot to work on in pass pro. Jansen at least has the experience and is still effective in the running game.
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Old 01-09-2009, 09:19 PM   #29
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Re: OG and OC are bigger needs than OT

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Huh?

I've readily admitted that he has lost a step. But if I had to choose between the lesser of two evils I would take Jansen. Heyer just stinks at run blocking and he still has a lot to work on in pass pro. Jansen at least has the experience and is still effective in the running game.
I was not saying that you think he is perfect, but you have always favored him. I just thought maybe you liked the guy for the inangibles that he brings. I do not like Jansen and hope that Heyer is ready to take his place.
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Old 01-09-2009, 09:22 PM   #30
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Re: OG and OC are bigger needs than OT

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I was not saying that you think he is perfect, but you have always favored him. I just thought maybe you liked the guy for the inangibles that he brings. I do not like Jansen and hope that Heyer is ready to take his place.
I think we were all hoping for that this year and it didn't happen.

I'm not banking on Heyer ever becoming a quality NFL starter. He's a backup at best to me. I think we need to look elsewhere for the future at RT.
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