OG and OC are bigger needs than OT

A10sROCK · 01-09-2009, 09:28 PM

The average age of our OL is high and getting older. We simply must start to draft new blood this season.

One or two new rookies would extend the careers of Jansen , Samuels, etc.

If we draft for the OL over the next two years we can build OL for the long-term. Regardless of who is the coach.

SFREDSKIN · 01-09-2009, 10:16 PM

Alex Mack C get him, whatever it takes. He's the smartest player in the draft and is a center which requires to make the calls in the line just like MLB. Portis can then pounded straight ahead instead of running to the outside.

SmootSmack · 01-09-2009, 11:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

I think we were all hoping for that this year and it didn't happen.

I'm not banking on Heyer ever becoming a quality NFL starter. He's a backup at best to me. I think we need to look elsewhere for the future at RT.

In my perfect world, we sign Vernon Carey (I'm leaning toward him over Gross lately) to be our starting RT in 2009. Heyer becomes the backup to Carey and Samuels, and Jansen becomes a jack of all trades backup across the line.

We trade down in the draft and get both Duke Robinson and Jonathan Luigs. By the start of the 2010 season, L to R we are Samuels, Robinson, Luigs, Rinehart, Carey.

53Fan · 01-10-2009, 12:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SFREDSKIN

Alex Mack C get him, whatever it takes. He's the smartest player in the draft and is a center which requires to make the calls in the line just like MLB. Portis can then pounded straight ahead instead of running to the outside.

I agree! It may not be the standard thing to draft a center with a high pick, but how much is it worth to have a big ass, smart center play at a high level for years and years? This guy is a HOG, and barring injury, could anchor this line for a decade or more. This is a "special" player. This guy does not stop until the whistle blows and can handle the "Big Guys". He would help this line TREMENDOUSLY.

30gut · 01-10-2009, 12:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

I've readily admitted that he has lost a step. But if I had to choose between the lesser of two evils I would take Jansen. Heyer just stinks at run blocking and he still has a lot to work on in pass pro. Jansen at least has the experience and is still effective in the running game.

I still don't understand.
Heyer beat out Jansen for RT.
As you state: Jansen has lost a step.
Older players like JJ don't improve they plateau or decline.
I think we should play Heyer and have him learn the ropes and watch him improve.

Mattyk · 01-10-2009, 09:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 30gut

I still don't understand.
Heyer beat out Jansen for RT.
As you state: Jansen has lost a step.
Older players like JJ don't improve they plateau or decline.
I think we should play Heyer and have him learn the ropes and watch him improve.

Not sure what's so hard to understand.

Heyer beat out JJ, then later on once JJ got the job back Heyer couldn't get back into the lineup. Neither of them are a long term solution. If I had to choose one to start going into next season, it would be Jansen.

A10sROCK · 01-10-2009, 10:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

Not sure what's so hard to understand.

Heyer beat out JJ, then later on once JJ got the job back Heyer couldn't get back into the lineup. Neither of them are a long term solution. If I had to choose one to start going into next season, it would be Jansen.

Why not draft an OL monster with our #13 and let JJ, Heyers or this FNG compete for this spot. The second best player is the backup.

We need to get our OL younger - starting this year.

LandrySlice · 01-10-2009, 11:29 AM

The answer you guys are looking for is Mr. Crabtree!

an23dy · 01-10-2009, 11:31 AM

I wonder which players people would agree with us drafting at a position we do not need, if they dropped to us at 13. Would people be okay with Crabtree or Taylor Mays or the best QB prospect(Bradford/Stafford)? Most agree we still need a #2 WR, and SS isn't exactly stable with Horton, he was injured almost half the season, and there are those that don't believe in Campbell. For reference I'm in favor of trading down and drafting D-line, O-line, or linebackers but I would be okay if we drafted based on the best player available, excluding some positions (in my opinion TE, QB, secondary). O-line is the safest bet because they seem to be pretty easy to judge. You rarely here about first round offensive line busts.

Trample the Elderly · 01-10-2009, 11:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 53Fan

I agree! It may not be the standard thing to draft a center with a high pick, but how much is it worth to have a big ass, smart center play at a high level for years and years? This guy is a HOG, and barring injury, could anchor this line for a decade or more. This is a "special" player. This guy does not stop until the whistle blows and can handle the "Big Guys". He would help this line TREMENDOUSLY.

This is a good choice for number one. Do I think it will happen . . . . Nope.

GTripp0012 · 01-10-2009, 12:14 PM

Even though there might be better options than Mack at 13, I'll say this: a line with him in the middle of Kendall and Rinehart/Thomas would be strong even with Jon Jansen at RT.

A10sROCK · 01-10-2009, 12:59 PM

We are one of the only teams that consistently rejects OL and DL choices in the draft. Our record under Snyder reflects that bias.

Until we use our best draft choices for the OL and DL, we will never get better than we are. Jason Campbell needs pass protection.

30gut · 01-10-2009, 01:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

Even though there might be better options than Mack at 13, I'll say this: a line with him in the middle of Kendall and Rinehart/Thomas would be strong even with Jon Jansen at RT.

Most of the draft sites have him(Mack) going way lower then 13.
We could likely trade down and still get him, the earliest i've seen him go in a mock is to the Steelers @ 30.

The Goat · 01-10-2009, 06:37 PM

Talk about semantics. Center a bigger need than guard. Guard a bigger need than center. Tackle a bigger need than guard or center. For the oldest, smallest and slowest line in the division and arguably one of the worst in the league period this debate wins the inane award.

... the line needs to be replaced within a year or two w/ the exception of Samuels (who may just need to switch to RT). Where/how we start the replacement process is probably best decided as a matter of pragmatism. If Jansen can be effective on the interior then he needs to make the switch since we're stuck w/ him. Draft a franchise tackle and decide whether he'll play on the left (moving Samuels to RT) or plug the rook into RT. We need franchise players on the line. If the FO 1) allows Jansen or Heyer to start at either tackle position and/or 2) stupidly settles for 2nd tier/3rd tier line talent through this replacement process this team will not even go 8-8 in each the next few seasons.

MeanEvilSkin · 01-10-2009, 08:11 PM

I agree with Goat.

In my dream scenario, we are able to trade down in the 20's and pick up Duke Robinson and get a 2nd round pick. Then we pick up Alex Mack or Luigs with that selection. In the third, we pick up Ziggy Hood to play DT. In the 5th, we pick up Alex Boone to eventually take over at RT.

No pretty picks in this draft. Just bring on the big uglies.

01-09-2009, 09:28 PM	#31
A10sROCK Impact Rookie Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Doylestown, PA Posts: 504	Re: OG and OC are bigger needs than OT The average age of our OL is high and getting older. We simply must start to draft new blood this season. One or two new rookies would extend the careers of Jansen , Samuels, etc. If we draft for the OL over the next two years we can build OL for the long-term. Regardless of who is the coach. __________________ 'Gut and Power'

01-09-2009, 10:16 PM	#32
SFREDSKIN Pro Bowl Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Pacifica, CA Posts: 6,503	Re: OG and OC are bigger needs than OT Alex Mack C get him, whatever it takes. He's the smartest player in the draft and is a center which requires to make the calls in the line just like MLB. Portis can then pounded straight ahead instead of running to the outside. __________________ Joe Gibbs- The best coach of all time, Lombardi trophy should be renamed Gibbs. Art Monk- Art was like an OL playing WR, doing the dirty work and not getting the glory. Darrell Green- Best DB ever. Purveyor of fine Filth

01-10-2009, 11:29 AM	#38
LandrySlice Special Teams Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: AFGHANISTAN Posts: 334	Re: OG and OC are bigger needs than OT The answer you guys are looking for is Mr. Crabtree! __________________ Don't tase me bro!!!!

01-10-2009, 11:31 AM	#39
an23dy Special Teams Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Perth, Australia Posts: 162	Re: OG and OC are bigger needs than OT I wonder which players people would agree with us drafting at a position we do not need, if they dropped to us at 13. Would people be okay with Crabtree or Taylor Mays or the best QB prospect(Bradford/Stafford)? Most agree we still need a #2 WR, and SS isn't exactly stable with Horton, he was injured almost half the season, and there are those that don't believe in Campbell. For reference I'm in favor of trading down and drafting D-line, O-line, or linebackers but I would be okay if we drafted based on the best player available, excluding some positions (in my opinion TE, QB, secondary). O-line is the safest bet because they seem to be pretty easy to judge. You rarely here about first round offensive line busts.

01-10-2009, 12:14 PM	#41
GTripp0012 Living Legend Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Grand Rapids, MI Age: 25 Posts: 15,143	Re: OG and OC are bigger needs than OT Even though there might be better options than Mack at 13, I'll say this: a line with him in the middle of Kendall and Rinehart/Thomas would be strong even with Jon Jansen at RT. __________________ Shanahan: “The bad thing is he's [Sav Rocca] probably our best offensive weapon and that’s not good.”

01-10-2009, 12:59 PM	#42
A10sROCK Impact Rookie Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Doylestown, PA Posts: 504	Re: OG and OC are bigger needs than OT We are one of the only teams that consistently rejects OL and DL choices in the draft. Our record under Snyder reflects that bias. Until we use our best draft choices for the OL and DL, we will never get better than we are. Jason Campbell needs pass protection. __________________ 'Gut and Power'

01-10-2009, 06:37 PM	#44
The Goat Pro Bowl Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 5,021	Re: OG and OC are bigger needs than OT Talk about semantics. Center a bigger need than guard. Guard a bigger need than center. Tackle a bigger need than guard or center. For the oldest, smallest and slowest line in the division and arguably one of the worst in the league period this debate wins the inane award. ... the line needs to be replaced within a year or two w/ the exception of Samuels (who may just need to switch to RT). Where/how we start the replacement process is probably best decided as a matter of pragmatism. If Jansen can be effective on the interior then he needs to make the switch since we're stuck w/ him. Draft a franchise tackle and decide whether he'll play on the left (moving Samuels to RT) or plug the rook into RT. We need franchise players on the line. If the FO 1) allows Jansen or Heyer to start at either tackle position and/or 2) stupidly settles for 2nd tier/3rd tier line talent through this replacement process this team will not even go 8-8 in each the next few seasons. __________________ Sometimes you eat the bear, and sometimes he eats you.

01-10-2009, 08:11 PM	#45
MeanEvilSkin Camp Scrub Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 59	Re: OG and OC are bigger needs than OT I agree with Goat. In my dream scenario, we are able to trade down in the 20's and pick up Duke Robinson and get a 2nd round pick. Then we pick up Alex Mack or Luigs with that selection. In the third, we pick up Ziggy Hood to play DT. In the 5th, we pick up Alex Boone to eventually take over at RT. No pretty picks in this draft. Just bring on the big uglies. __________________ Build this team through the draft, please! Starting with both lines. A dynasty is not a bad thing to shoot for!

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OG and OC are bigger needs than OT

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