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Andre Smith still leads in the Database at #13

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Old 03-12-2009, 09:44 AM   #46
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Re: Andre Smith still leads in the Database at #13

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bad pro day numbers. 19 reps? 5.3 aint great either, but it's less important.
LT's generally have long arms which lowers their rep totals. I would be more worried about his weight becoming an issue and him breaking down as he gets older...or his weight being an indicator that he is not a hard worker. I also read that he has always been a chubby guy so it could just be his genes.
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Old 03-12-2009, 09:44 AM   #47
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Re: Andre Smith still leads in the Database at #13

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Because it deemphasizes the RT need significantly. You'd only take a Center at No. 13 if you were absoultely confident that he would start on day one and would not need competition for the next five years, obviously. Equally obviously, if you could get a franchise type tackle that fits all the same critera, you'd pass on the Center for the tackle.

But if you are comparing a flawed Tackle prospect to an ideal Center prospect, you'd obviously go with the Center. It's just a big whos' available game.
Very well put.
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Old 03-12-2009, 12:50 PM   #48
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Re: Andre Smith still leads in the Database at #13

Going off the FA market I think LB is a lock for our first pick in the draft. There's very little FA talent at the position available and that probably won't change. Jason Smith, Monroe and Oher will almost certainly be gone by 13 and I tend to agree now w/ those who think Andre is too risky. Basically w/ all the LT talent in the draft you can bet some teams will cut their current tackles, who would almost all be an upgrade over Jansen/Heyer.

... i think the question is whether we take a LB at 13 or trade down and take one at 20 or thereabouts. Either scenario is fine by me as long as the guy is a legit starter for us.
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Old 03-12-2009, 12:53 PM   #49
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Re: Andre Smith still leads in the Database at #13

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Going off the FA market I think LB is a lock for our first pick in the draft. There's very little FA talent at the position available and that probably won't change. Jason Smith, Monroe and Oher will almost certainly be gone by 13 and I tend to agree now w/ those who think Andre is too risky. Basically w/ all the LT talent in the draft you can bet some teams will cut their current tackles, who would almost all be an upgrade over Jansen/Heyer.

... i think the question is whether we take a LB at 13 or trade down and take one at 20 or thereabouts. Either scenario is fine by me as long as the guy is a legit starter for us.
I'd hate to not take a tackle with so much depth at this position in this year's pool. I think a trade down would be better, and I wouldn't mind picking up Smith in the 20s if he's there.
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Old 03-12-2009, 01:07 PM   #50
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Re: Andre Smith still leads in the Database at #13

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Going off the FA market I think LB is a lock for our first pick in the draft. There's very little FA talent at the position available and that probably won't change. Jason Smith, Monroe and Oher will almost certainly be gone by 13 and I tend to agree now w/ those who think Andre is too risky. Basically w/ all the LT talent in the draft you can bet some teams will cut their current tackles, who would almost all be an upgrade over Jansen/Heyer.

... i think the question is whether we take a LB at 13 or trade down and take one at 20 or thereabouts. Either scenario is fine by me as long as the guy is a legit starter for us.
I think picking a LB or DE as our 1st pick would be a mistake. the reason being is right now the Giants D on paper is incredible and we need to counter balance that by strengthening the OL first.
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Old 03-12-2009, 02:00 PM   #51
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Re: Andre Smith still leads in the Database at #13

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I think picking a LB or DE as our 1st pick would be a mistake. the reason being is right now the Giants D on paper is incredible and we need to counter balance that by strengthening the OL first.
I don't disagree w/ your thinking here but I'm pointing to the likely reality... the three OTs worthy of the 13th overall pick will be gone by then almost for sure. That leaves the questionable Smith and a small group (Meridith, Beatty) who would be a big reach at 13. If we can't trade out of the spot then Rey, if still available, is a safer pick than Smith, Mack, etc. The absolute worst case scenario IMHO is taking Smith or Mack or another o-lineman w/ our first pick and the dude is unable start ahead of the guys we already have. For instance as unimpressive as Rabach is I doubt Buges would put a rookie ahead of him. Same w/ Jansen vs. Smith. Rey would start and be a force from day one.

... and like I said we'll be able to get OT talent from FA as things shake out here. I'm not saying I'm perfectly happy w/ the outcome as I see it, but we cannot afford to waste our pick in terms of a player who doesn't make an immediate impact at the 2 positions of need for us.
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Old 03-12-2009, 02:16 PM   #52
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Re: Andre Smith still leads in the Database at #13

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I don't disagree w/ your thinking here but I'm pointing to the likely reality... the three OTs worthy of the 13th overall pick will be gone by then almost for sure. That leaves the questionable Smith and a small group (Meridith, Beatty) who would be a big reach at 13. If we can't trade out of the spot then Rey, if still available, is a safer pick than Smith, Mack, etc. The absolute worst case scenario IMHO is taking Smith or Mack or another o-lineman w/ our first pick and the dude is unable start ahead of the guys we already have. For instance as unimpressive as Rabach is I doubt Buges would put a rookie ahead of him. Same w/ Jansen vs. Smith. Rey would start and be a force from day one.

... and like I said we'll be able to get OT talent from FA as things shake out here. I'm not saying I'm perfectly happy w/ the outcome as I see it, but we cannot afford to waste our pick in terms of a player who doesn't make an immediate impact at the 2 positions of need for us.
Where would Rey start? Rey is NOT an OLB. He is strictly a MLB, he's not that fast (4.85) and he can't cover. I would not take Smith or Maualuga at 13, but yes if I had to choose, Maualuga is a safer pick than Smith or Mack. I'd trade down draft Mack with the 1st, pick a DE in the 2nd and draft a OLB with our 3rd pick.
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Old 03-12-2009, 02:48 PM   #53
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Re: Andre Smith still leads in the Database at #13

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Where would Rey start? Rey is NOT an OLB. He is strictly a MLB, he's not that fast (4.85) and he can't cover. I would not take Smith or Maualuga at 13, but yes if I had to choose, Maualuga is a safer pick than Smith or Mack. I'd trade down draft Mack with the 1st, pick a DE in the 2nd and draft a OLB with our 3rd pick.
Sorry but I can't go along w/ a LB in the 3rd round. Despite the hype this draft group of LBs isn't excessively deep wrt talent and we need a legit starter. I doubt we get one beyond the 1st round, maybe w/ the 33rd overall but again I don't think that's a chance worth taking...
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Old 03-12-2009, 03:25 PM   #54
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Re: Andre Smith still leads in the Database at #13

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I don't disagree w/ your thinking here but I'm pointing to the likely reality... the three OTs worthy of the 13th overall pick will be gone by then almost for sure. That leaves the questionable Smith and a small group (Meridith, Beatty) who would be a big reach at 13. If we can't trade out of the spot then Rey, if still available, is a safer pick than Smith, Mack, etc. The absolute worst case scenario IMHO is taking Smith or Mack or another o-lineman w/ our first pick and the dude is unable start ahead of the guys we already have. For instance as unimpressive as Rabach is I doubt Buges would put a rookie ahead of him. Same w/ Jansen vs. Smith. Rey would start and be a force from day one.

... and like I said we'll be able to get OT talent from FA as things shake out here. I'm not saying I'm perfectly happy w/ the outcome as I see it, but we cannot afford to waste our pick in terms of a player who doesn't make an immediate impact at the 2 positions of need for us.
How do you figure Rey is a safer pick than Mack?
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Old 03-12-2009, 04:20 PM   #55
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Re: Andre Smith still leads in the Database at #13

I just got this from ESPN Rumors. Very interesting situation on what they report in regards to the Ravens being interested in Heyward-Bey, and possibly wanting to move up in the draft to get him. If this were to happen, I wonder if getting their #26 and another round pick from them would be worth pursuing. The Ravens desperately need a vertical receiver, and Hey-Bey could provide that to them, not to mention the marketing part of having a former Terp play for them. Any thoughts?

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Will Ravens trade up to draft Heyward-Bey?
Representatives from 25 NFL teams came to the University of Maryland on Wednesday to watch the school's "Pro Day" event, according to the Baltimore Sun. But really, they were there for just one player, wide receiver Darrius Heyward-Bey.

After running the fastest time in the 40-yard dash at the NFL draft combine, Heyward-Bey will now begin the process of being further vetted by specific teams, as was the case on Wednesday. In addition to the workouts at his alma mater, the Baltimore Ravens have already scheduled an appointment with Heyward-Bey for a session where he'll catch passes from their quarterback, Joe Flacco, and the Minnesota Vikings, Philadelphia Eagles, St. Louis Rams and Tampa Bay Buccaneers have also extended invitations to the wide receiver for similar in-depth workouts.

Although the Ravens are not in desperate need of a wide receiver, their top three options from 2008 - Derrick Mason, Mark Clayton and Demetrius Williams - are all set to become free agents after 2009, and Mason has even asked for his release if the team does not plan to sign him to an extension. Furthermore, in the days following the Super Bowl victory by the Pittsburgh Steelers, the Ravens were among many teams who coveted the game-breaking abilities of a player like Super Bowl MVP Santonio Holmes, and the speedy Heyward-Bey could potentially blossom into such a star.

The problem now for the Ravens is that Heyward-Bey, who grew up in Silver Spring, Maryland, is unlikely to last until their first pick in the NFL draft at No. 26 overall. The New York Jets, Chicago Bears, Eagles and Vikings all pick ahead of the Ravens, and all are in need of an upgrade in the receiving corps. A move to one of the middle ten picks of the first round could be developed, and this would ensure the Ravens could tab Heyward-Bey if they so desired.

The 6-foot-3 Heyward-Bey seemed genuinely excited when asked about the prospects of playing for his home-state franchise, telling the Sun, "That will be great. I could go there and be a weapon for them. We [Heyward-Bey and Flacco] could grow together... write that." We'll have to wait another month to find out if the Ravens are just as excited about the youngster as he is about them.
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Old 03-12-2009, 04:26 PM   #56
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Re: Andre Smith still leads in the Database at #13

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I just got this from ESPN Rumors. Very interesting situation on what they report in regards to the Ravens being interested in Heyward-Bey, and possibly wanting to move up in the draft to get him. If this were to happen, I wonder if getting their #26 and another round pick from them would be worth pursuing. The Ravens desperately need a vertical receiver, and Hey-Bey could provide that to them, not to mention the marketing part of having a former Terp play for them. Any thoughts?
I think it is something we should check into without a doubt. The more options we have the better. That would be a great pick for the Ravens and depending on what other pick they were willing to give up, could help us gain another starter or at least a future starter.
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Old 03-12-2009, 04:54 PM   #57
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Re: Andre Smith still leads in the Database at #13

The 26th pick sounds good, solid prospects like Alex Mack, Eben Britton, William Beatty and Duke Robinson are likely to be available which suits me fine. I'm also slipping off the Andre Smith wagon with all the negative reports from various sites on his pro day.

I wonder if the Ravens are willing to give up their 26th pick as well as their 2nd rounder (58th) though?
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Old 03-12-2009, 05:02 PM   #58
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Re: Andre Smith still leads in the Database at #13

Let's get the guy who ran a 4.65 40, long jumped 10 feet 3 inches, had a 30 inch vertical jump, and had 39 reps in the bench at 225 lbs. And he also has a bodybuilder-like physique at 6'6" and 315 lbs.

Wait that was Tony Mandarich in 1989 at his workout when he was annointed figuratively and literally as "The Next Big Thing" before he was drafted in the NFL.

I'm not saying that Mandarich didn't play well in college - I'm just saying that you should never ever ever ever (did I say ever?) put too much importance in the combine and pro day workouts. And also you should be careful of believing any type of hype - good or bad.

I believe the best thing that Mandarich was good at was Hype. Thinking about Mandarich's admitting to steriod use (and the rumors about it before he was drafted) - I would rethink about drafting Cushing.

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Old 03-12-2009, 05:08 PM   #59
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Re: Andre Smith still leads in the Database at #13

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Reps are worthless as a combine tool though, because blocking is all footwork, balance and hand placement anyway.

We look at nineteen reps and say "whoa, he's not nearly as strong as other guys" but anyone who can put up 225 12 times or more is plenty strong to play in the NFL. He's still in the top 0.3% of males at his age, obviously.

If he does fail in the NFL, it will be for other reasons. Perhaps his relative bench totals and 40 time are indicative of a bigger problem, but there's no correlation between combine (or pro day) bench reps and NFL success anyway, so I'd say the kids stock probably shouldn't fall any because of this.

If anything, this validates his story at the combine about not wanting to work out, and was probably a good business decision in the long run. Had he put up a 14 spot at the combine, he might have dropped out of the first round. Now, he's still going to be the third or fourth tackle taken.

Of course, reason #1 why the draft process is good: some team would have taken this guy with the first or second overall pick after the season ended.
Exactly. Sean Taylore only did like 8 or 9 reps. Jared All did 11 or 12.
The bench pressing means nothing. But I'd leave the guy alone. I saw him on NFL Newotrk last night and he looked like a total fat out of shape sack of poop.
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Old 03-12-2009, 05:08 PM   #60
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Re: Andre Smith still leads in the Database at #13

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How do you figure Rey is a safer pick than Mack?
53 i only mean safer as a guy who would start immediately at a position of need for us. like i said before it's just really hard to imagine Buges inserting a rookie before Rabach on the depth chart... buges goes on and on about Rabach for one thing.

Personally I think we'll have DE pretty well set by the time of the draft, which leaves RT and OLB as the biggest problems. There's not much for starting, impact-player talent at OLB in the FA, while I think there will be at OT in the long run. I think the FO almost has to take a LB w/ our first pick, just guessing here, and after Curry Rey is the most talented.
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