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I give you the first 12 picks, Give me your Redskins draft pick!

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Old 03-19-2009, 12:58 PM   #136
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Re: I give you the first 12 picks, Give me your Redskins draft pick!

I'm going to go with Rey, after seeing he's available @ 13, I love his motor, and aggressiveness..
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Old 03-19-2009, 01:01 PM   #137
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Re: I give you the first 12 picks, Give me your Redskins draft pick!

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I'm going to go with Rey, after seeing he's available @ 13, I love his motor, and aggressiveness..
Re-read the original post
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Old 03-19-2009, 02:12 PM   #138
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Re: I give you the first 12 picks, Give me your Redskins draft pick!

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Re-read the original post
My bad, I'll stick with Maybin then..
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Old 03-19-2009, 02:22 PM   #139
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Re: I give you the first 12 picks, Give me your Redskins draft pick!

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Dude I'm not trying to convince you of anything. What category you put Mack in or I put Mack in, is just a matter of opinion and that's all it is. If you do your homework you'll see that many scouts think he is the best center to come out of the draft in years. There is a reason that Mack, a center, is being talked about as a first round pick. That's why I say a player like this only comes around once in a great while. Like Matt Birk, you don't find too many as good as he is at his position. I think you could say there was more than one weak link on this line last year. For THIS team I think Mack would be a bigger help. That's my opinion. Aren't you the same guy who said Mathews wasn't first round talent but had seen very little film of him? That's part of player analysis you talked about in another thread. If you don't think Rabach and the middle of our line was part of the collapse last year...well I just don't know what to tell you. We'll just agree to disagree about Mack and how much he can help this team. Alex Mack Scouting Report - 2009 NFL Draft Prospect

This discussion isn't about me against you or about me against Mack. I think Mack is also a great player, but there's no reason to ignore his weaknesses to build him up. And in the same way, you also cannot ignore the weaknesses on the redskins. The weakness for the redskins last year was the offensive unit, more specifically, the offensive line; and more specific than that, the right tackle spot. Rabach was the least of the redskins worries on the offensive line last season, considering the injuries and the play of both Heyer and Jansen.

And about Clay Matthews, I could be wrong about him (so-called experts are wrong all the time). But I've seen enough of him to know that this guy is one dimensional. If you want to have a discussion to support that he's a first rounder; that's fine, but if you want to argue with me about how much film i've watched of him - don't do it.
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Old 03-19-2009, 02:46 PM   #140
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Re: I give you the first 12 picks, Give me your Redskins draft pick!

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This discussion isn't about me against you or about me against Mack. I think Mack is also a great player, but there's no reason to ignore his weaknesses to build him up. And in the same way, you also cannot ignore the weaknesses on the redskins. The weakness for the redskins last year was the offensive unit, more specifically, the offensive line; and more specific than that, the right tackle spot. Rabach was the least of the redskins worries on the offensive line last season, considering the injuries and the play of both Heyer and Jansen.
I can confidently say that you don't know what you are talking about, re: OL issues. We have a bunch of problems on the right side of the line and need the best and quickest solution that we can get, be that Mack or someone else.
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Old 03-19-2009, 02:52 PM   #141
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Re: I give you the first 12 picks, Give me your Redskins draft pick!

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I can confidently say that you don't know what you are talking about, re: OL issues. We have a bunch of problems on the right side of the line and need the best and quickest solution that we can get, be that Mack or someone else.
Whatever. I can confidently say you don't know jack.
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Old 03-19-2009, 02:54 PM   #142
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Re: I give you the first 12 picks, Give me your Redskins draft pick!

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Whatever. I can confidently say you don't know jack.
Right, but my long posts here usually 1) have a point, and 2) usually rely on some reasoning, and not hearsay. I wish not to know jack about the hearsay that's out there.
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Old 03-19-2009, 02:55 PM   #143
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Re: I give you the first 12 picks, Give me your Redskins draft pick!

And plus you make reference to the right side of the line, but that's what I say is a weakness. I don't get what point you are making, Gtrip????
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Old 03-19-2009, 03:00 PM   #144
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Re: I give you the first 12 picks, Give me your Redskins draft pick!

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And plus you make reference to the right side of the line, but that's what I say is a weakness. I don't get what point you are making, Gtrip????
You say Rabach is the least of our worries, but that shows a misunderstanding of the real issue. He IS the worry. Jansen is clearly in decline, which you and I agree on, but it's normal, run-of-the-mill veteran decline. Like, he can still go out there and give us 16 games, but it's going to be a mediocre to below average 16. Randy Thomas is in the exact same boat, although at a position where he's less of a liability

Rabach is a vet who consistently makes rookie mistakes, getting Thomas and Jansen (and Kendall) in bad situations, and also can't handle his own assignments. If you fix that problem, it not only makes the right side look better, but turns the whole left back into a strength again.

Whether or not Alex Mack is the right guy for the job or even on the Skins' radar at all is debateable and I'm glad you took the alternate perspective to keep us Mack lovers from unbridled, wild man love and irrationality. But I maintain the Skins can't leave Rabach in there, and then act like they are serious about improving the OL. There's problems with age and decline, which need to be addressed, and then theres the fact that neither Rabach or Geisinger appers to be an NFL quality center, which is obviously a bigger issue.
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Old 03-19-2009, 03:04 PM   #145
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Re: I give you the first 12 picks, Give me your Redskins draft pick!

Or, you can give me your idea of a great offensive line (like, a real example), and I'll give you a player on it who is comparable to Jansen for us, proving that having Jansen in the starting lineup shouldn't prevent us from having a great line otherwise.

(Which is different than saying "We shouldn't get a franchise tackle if we have the chance." We obviously should).
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Old 03-19-2009, 03:08 PM   #146
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Re: I give you the first 12 picks, Give me your Redskins draft pick!

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Rabach is a vet who consistently makes rookie mistakes, getting Thomas and Jansen (and Kendall) in bad situations, and also can't handle his own assignments. If you fix that problem, it not only makes the right side look better, but turns the whole left back into a strength again.
My question is, how does the front office/coaching staff not see this? All I read is how Rabach is safe, and "entrenched" at the center position. Seems like not only don't the Redskins think he's an issue, they actually think he's really good. So I ask you, what's up with that??

For the record, I agree with your assessment of Rabach,I just want to know why no one on the Redskins views him as a liability.
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Old 03-19-2009, 03:08 PM   #147
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Re: I give you the first 12 picks, Give me your Redskins draft pick!

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You say Rabach is the least of our worries, but that shows a misunderstanding of the real issue. He IS the worry. Jansen is clearly in decline, which you and I agree on, but it's normal, run-of-the-mill veteran decline. Like, he can still go out there and give us 16 games, but it's going to be a mediocre to below average 16. Randy Thomas is in the exact same boat, although at a position where he's less of a liability

Rabach is a vet who consistently makes rookie mistakes, getting Thomas and Jansen (and Kendall) in bad situations, and also can't handle his own assignments. If you fix that problem, it not only makes the right side look better, but turns the whole left back into a strength again.

Whether or not Alex Mack is the right guy for the job or even on the Skins' radar at all is debateable and I'm glad you took the alternate perspective to keep us Mack lovers from unbridled, wild man love and irrationality. But I maintain the Skins can't leave Rabach in there, and then act like they are serious about improving the OL. There's problems with age and decline, which need to be addressed, and then theres the fact that neither Rabach or Geisinger appers to be an NFL quality center, which is obviously a bigger issue.

Alright, at least there is a point to basically calling me a football idiot.

First of all, I say you deal with a problem position directly (in this case, RT) not by blaming the center for not helping. The right tackle spot was consistently an issue throughout the season for the redskins and that blame directly falls on both Heyer and Jansen.

Second of all, I am least worried about Rabach for the redskins as much as I am of all the other spots on the line, because of the play of the RT and because of injuries.

If you think that upgrading at Center, which I think Rabach is fine at - is the indirect solution to the problem on the right side of line - specifically at right tackle - then good luck with that logic.
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Old 03-19-2009, 03:19 PM   #148
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Re: I give you the first 12 picks, Give me your Redskins draft pick!

Both of you guys are correct just different players GT wants C adressed warriorzpath wants RT. GT is right about Rabach making rookie mistakes and missing blocking assignments, and that cant happen because he's the main one in charge of the the line, and if he screws up the whole line screws up. Jansen is probably worse because many of our sacks came on his side, now whether we upgrade via FA (Shaffer) or the draft is another debate. We need to upgrade both positions but you guys are right.
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Old 03-19-2009, 03:24 PM   #149
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Re: I give you the first 12 picks, Give me your Redskins draft pick!

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Alright, at least there is a point to basically calling me a football idiot.

First of all, I say you deal with a problem position directly (in this case, RT) not by blaming the center for not helping. The right tackle spot was consistently an issue throughout the season for the redskins and that blame directly falls on both Heyer and Jansen.

Second of all, I am least worried about Rabach for the redskins as much as I am of all the other spots on the line, because of the play of the RT and because of injuries.

If you think that upgrading at Center, which I think Rabach is fine at - is the indirect solution to the problem on the right side of line - specifically at right tackle - then good luck with that logic.
First misunderstanding: I never called you an idiot, nor implied that, nor would I have any reason to think that.

You were telling 53, in no uncertain terms, why he was wrong, using assumptions I knew to be wrong. Given that, I feel that letting you know you don't understand the situation was fitting. It is, in no way, an attack on your football IQ, and I'm glad we were able to keep it from devolving into a pissing match.

But, still, dealing with the problem directly means replacing the Center. There's another problem that is the right tackle, and another problem yet that is the right guard. A lesser problem is that the LT is now 31 and that's going to be an issue sometime in the near future. A final (least immediate) issue is that Dockery represents more of a transitional player from the old guard to the new guard than a long term solution.

The Center is the single biggest problem, and that, to me, is not all that debatable. I'm not suggesting something that isn't clearly and decisively evident on tape when I say Rabach absolutely cannot play. But, my big board also says that Mack is less of a solution than any of Oher, Monroe, or J. Smith. And that's because I view all those players as future LTs when Samuels moves on. That's the most critical position on the line.

The fact that I'd rather have Oher than Mack doesn't mean that I'm being inconsistent on Rabach, it just means that I see Oher as the start of the new guard, and a future LT. In the immediate, he would probably step in for Jansen at RT. That's a relatively small upgrade, especially if we still have communication issues, but he's eventually going to be the LT, so it's worth the price of the 13th pick.

If we thought Mack was the best available OL available, I don't think there's a defensible reason for passing on him. To me, taking best available OL is clearly a direct solution, but to each their own.
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Old 03-19-2009, 03:26 PM   #150
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Re: I give you the first 12 picks, Give me your Redskins draft pick!

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Both of you guys are correct just different players GT wants C adressed warriorzpath wants RT. GT is right about Rabach making rookie mistakes and missing blocking assignments, and that cant happen because he's the main one in charge of the the line, and if he screws up the whole line screws up. Jansen is probably worse because many of our sacks came on his side, now whether we upgrade via FA (Shaffer) or the draft is another debate. We need to upgrade both positions but you guys are right.

That's true with the Center position (with decision-making and intelligence), if that's the case for a need to upgrade. But why replace a center that makes rookie mistakes with a rookie center (in this case, Mack, that is known more for being physical) where decision-making skills are important. It's a better scenario to pick up a center in FA and pick up one of the top 4 OT if available in the draft.
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