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My Draft Trade Proposal with New England. Feedback Needed!!!

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Old 04-05-2009, 12:36 AM   #16
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re: My Draft Trade Proposal with New England. Feedback Needed!!!

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No what's subterfudge?
Deception, In other words a "smokescreen".
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Old 04-05-2009, 01:01 AM   #17
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re: My Draft Trade Proposal with New England. Feedback Needed!!!

The idea does makes good sense, but to be honest we need a #13 pick. Giving away first rounders or trading down even 10 spots still might cost us the best T or/and G available for a line that needs rebuilding very badly if we are going to be able to put more points on the board this season and beyond. I wouldn't be surprised if we did use #13 to garner more picks though, but what would be the point. Past the second or third round all you have left is practice squad fodder.
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Old 04-05-2009, 11:11 AM   #18
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re: My Draft Trade Proposal with New England. Feedback Needed!!!

we dont have very many picks vinny keeps giving them away like a fool.
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Old 04-05-2009, 12:38 PM   #19
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re: My Draft Trade Proposal with New England. Feedback Needed!!!

If he lasts that long, Mack will go to the Steelers. There's a reason they've won more SB's than anyone else. They're smart.
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Old 04-05-2009, 12:56 PM   #20
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re: My Draft Trade Proposal with New England. Feedback Needed!!!

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If he lasts that long, Mack will go to the Steelers. There's a reason they've won more SB's than anyone else. They're smart.
Yeah I think it will come down to Mack or Unger @ 32. Most boards i've seen have them taking Mack...
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Old 04-05-2009, 01:03 PM   #21
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re: My Draft Trade Proposal with New England. Feedback Needed!!!

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I don't see NE making the switch with us they like stockpileing picks.
This could work however if they are attempting to get Cushing as there is a good chance Houston will snag him at 15.
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Old 04-05-2009, 01:16 PM   #22
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re: My Draft Trade Proposal with New England. Feedback Needed!!!

I don't like the idea of the Skins trading down. We saw what happened last year. The further they get away from the top of the first round, the Skins FO really stretches with their picks. Devin Thomas and Fred Davis weren't as much of a stretch where they were selected, but from our third round picks on, they were. Reinhardt and Tryon in particular were picked way higher than they should've been. There was still better talent at their positions. Even when we drafted Campbell, we didn't need to trade up to get him. I don't trust our FO's draft board, and I think it's way off base with most successful FOs. So, I don't trust them trading down to draft more players because they'll probably gun for guys no other teams would draft til later anyways.
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Old 04-05-2009, 04:00 PM   #23
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re: My Draft Trade Proposal with New England. Feedback Needed!!!

"But NE doesn't like to give big money to rookies, and they seem to like to stockpile picks, not give them up."

"I don't see NE making the switch with us they like stockpileing picks.Look at their history of draft day trades."

"They trade down, not up. Good thinking (in terms of trading down and stocking up more picks) but this trade would not happen."

I think what's missing here is that the Pats have 12 picks, and a good team that went 11-5. Stockpiling picks is done precisely to move up to select the players you want. I've guessed in another post that they'd trade the skins for the 13th pick if Maualuga was still available - it's a long shot but I think he'd be perfect for them.

The point is that the Pats don't actually want a draft class of 12 kids, they wouldn't be able to a large fraction of them. They are the type of team, however, to trade picks for next years picks.
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Old 04-05-2009, 04:20 PM   #24
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re: My Draft Trade Proposal with New England. Feedback Needed!!!

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I don't like the idea of the Skins trading down. We saw what happened last year. The further they get away from the top of the first round, the Skins FO really stretches with their picks. Devin Thomas and Fred Davis weren't as much of a stretch where they were selected, but from our third round picks on, they were. Reinhardt and Tryon in particular were picked way higher than they should've been. There was still better talent at their positions. Even when we drafted Campbell, we didn't need to trade up to get him. I don't trust our FO's draft board, and I think it's way off base with most successful FOs. So, I don't trust them trading down to draft more players because they'll probably gun for guys no other teams would draft til later anyways.
Word...a very good argument for not trading down IMO and that's my take on this year's draft. In fact, I would almost like to see us find a way to trade up from our 3rd, 5th and 6th round picks into the 2nd round. I know that means even fewer picks overall but facing the honestly bizarre draft board Vinny engenders I'd take a 2nd round pick over three in later rounds. Rinehart was truly a flub that should embarrass - kid was set to be a 5th rd pick or later by every expert/mock that year. When we took him so early - probably 60 to 90 spots before anyone else would have i thought "well maybe they have some inside info on this kid and just wanted to ensure they got him." I mean the reality is they just screwed up royally...there wasn't any there, there, as people say. Horton is the lone standout in Vinny's draft expertise and he still has significant improving to do.
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Old 04-05-2009, 04:27 PM   #25
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re: My Draft Trade Proposal with New England. Feedback Needed!!!

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"But NE doesn't like to give big money to rookies, and they seem to like to stockpile picks, not give them up."

"I don't see NE making the switch with us they like stockpileing picks.Look at their history of draft day trades."

"They trade down, not up. Good thinking (in terms of trading down and stocking up more picks) but this trade would not happen."

I think what's missing here is that the Pats have 12 picks, and a good team that went 11-5. Stockpiling picks is done precisely to move up to select the players you want. I've guessed in another post that they'd trade the skins for the 13th pick if Maualuga was still available - it's a long shot but I think he'd be perfect for them.

The point is that the Pats don't actually want a draft class of 12 kids, they wouldn't be able to a large fraction of them. They are the type of team, however, to trade picks for next years picks.
Even if that were the case the more likely trades are either of the following: picks 23 and 47 - 1190; pick 13 and 5th - approx. 1185.5 or picks 23, 58, and 4th - approx. 1134; pick 13 - 1150. What I'm saying is New England will want to hold on to pick #34 because they will value that high 2nd highly. Because they have so many picks they will not see a whole lot of value in giving up both picks #23 and #34 in order to get pick #81 back when there are easier ways to get to #13 (assuming they would want to do so) that would not require them giving up #34.
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Old 04-05-2009, 04:33 PM   #26
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re: My Draft Trade Proposal with New England. Feedback Needed!!!

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Even if that were the case the more likely trades are either of the following: picks 23 and 47 - 1190; pick 13 and 5th - approx. 1185.5 or picks 23, 58, and 4th - approx. 1134; pick 13 - 1150. What I'm saying is New England will want to hold on to pick #34 because they will value that high 2nd highly. Because they have so many picks they will not see a whole lot of value in giving up both picks #23 and #34 in order to get pick #81 back when there are easier ways to get to #13 (assuming they would want to do so) that would not require them giving up #34.
The other angle is if NE really wants to trade up for someone, and we have an inkling of who the player might be...we should probably just draft that guy for ourselves. NE has superb talent evaluators and we would be wise to grab someone they think worthy of trading up for.
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Old 04-05-2009, 05:03 PM   #27
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re: My Draft Trade Proposal with New England. Feedback Needed!!!

Last I heard, maybe like a month ago?, was that the Patriots were interested in Tyson Jackson and thinking of trading up to get him. But probably not all the way up to 13
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Old 04-05-2009, 05:07 PM   #28
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re: My Draft Trade Proposal with New England. Feedback Needed!!!

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Word...a very good argument for not trading down IMO and that's my take on this year's draft. In fact, I would almost like to see us find a way to trade up from our 3rd, 5th and 6th round picks into the 2nd round. I know that means even fewer picks overall but facing the honestly bizarre draft board Vinny engenders I'd take a 2nd round pick over three in later rounds. Rinehart was truly a flub that should embarrass - kid was set to be a 5th rd pick or later by every expert/mock that year. When we took him so early - probably 60 to 90 spots before anyone else would have i thought "well maybe they have some inside info on this kid and just wanted to ensure they got him." I mean the reality is they just screwed up royally...there wasn't any there, there, as people say. Horton is the lone standout in Vinny's draft expertise and he still has significant improving to do.
Yeah, I wouldn't mind that strategy either. I honestly don't think it would be a bad idea for us to trade up in the first and draft a guy like Orapko, Monroe or even Curry. Why not go for a sure fire guy since whoever we'd draft in the later rounds anyway would most likely be booted off the practice squad in a few years.

I think some of the FO's reaching with their draft picks is because Vinny was around/maybe influential when the niners reached for TO in the third round. He's trying to strike gold again.
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Old 04-05-2009, 05:23 PM   #29
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re: My Draft Trade Proposal with New England. Feedback Needed!!!

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Even if that were the case the more likely trades are either of the following: picks 23 and 47 - 1190; pick 13 and 5th - approx. 1185.5 or picks 23, 58, and 4th - approx. 1134; pick 13 - 1150. What I'm saying is New England will want to hold on to pick #34 because they will value that high 2nd highly. Because they have so many picks they will not see a whole lot of value in giving up both picks #23 and #34 in order to get pick #81 back when there are easier ways to get to #13 (assuming they would want to do so) that would not require them giving up #34.

I like the idea of trading down with the patriots, I do, but I can't imagine us trading our 5th away.

Meaning, the skins currently have a draft class of 5, and the reason they'd trade down is to get a larger draft class. I wouldn't mind the trade being something like:

NE gets 13
WAS gets 23, 58, 89

I wouldn't be surprised to see Cleveland trying to trade down from the 5th pick, since they
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Old 04-05-2009, 05:25 PM   #30
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re: My Draft Trade Proposal with New England. Feedback Needed!!!

Ahem. I wouldn't be surprised to see Cleveland trying to trade down from the 5th pick, since they also currently have 5 picks, and it'll be interesting to see who wants to trade up to that spot.
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