Warpath  

Home | Forums | Salary Cap Info | Shop | Donate | Stay Connected




Go Back   Warpath > Redskins Forums > Redskins Locker Room > NFL Draft Central


Wanted: Playmakers

NFL Draft Central


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 04-19-2009, 04:32 PM   #1
The Starter
 
diehard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Norfolk, Va (OV)
Posts: 1,566
Wanted: Playmakers

Moss? Check.
Cooley? Check.
Randle El (now known as Santonio Holmes)? Check.
Jason Campbell? Hmmm.

I too am warming up to the idea that if we want to get to the promise land it may take drafting Sanchez or probably giving Colt Brennan a shot. Why? It's no secret that Campbell has had a lot of instablility as far a OCs go but, look at his game. Even at Auburn his impressive W-L record and national championship title was helped much by a strong defense and running game (Cadillac Williams and Ronnie Brown). This reveals Campbell strengths. He does a great job making safe reads and takes very few chances with the football. The Skins have had a top 5 defense for most of the years he's started and a very effective running game so, we can afford to be more risky in that regard. Also, even though we have had great defenses, we are not one that have a lot of takeaways, or points off of, as the 2000 Ravens did. And before you say the WR corps was the culprit, Moss, Randle El, and Cooley are better than Cutler's Brandon Marshall, Eddie Royal, and Daniel Graham/Tony Sheffler. I believe Cutler's big numbers are a result of his ability to let it fly (watch what he does in CHI under his new OC and former FA bust Brandon Lloyd and REL-like Devin Hester). Something Campbell doesn't risk doing often. That's why Jay Cutler or a Brett Farve will have a eye-popping number of INTs to go with thier impressive TD stats. Who's to argue that Farve isn't a winner? A franchise QB? A team can surely win with Jason Campbell or a Trent Dilfer but, you have to make sure other attributes of the team make up for the lack of risk taking.

Last edited by diehard; 04-19-2009 at 04:45 PM.
diehard is offline   Reply With Quote

Advertisements
Old 04-19-2009, 04:44 PM   #2
Pro Bowl
 
53Fan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Kill Devil Hills, N.C.
Posts: 7,400
Re: Wanted: Playmakers

Another Campbell bashing thread?
__________________
"Cautiously And Optimistically... Looking Forward To Change"
53Fan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-2009, 04:53 PM   #3
The Starter
 
diehard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Norfolk, Va (OV)
Posts: 1,566
Re: Wanted: Playmakers

Quote:
Originally Posted by 53Fan View Post
Another Campbell bashing thread?
No. Campbell just doesn't fit where we are right now as a defense. If we commit to him and re-sign him for another multi-year deal we're in for more mediocrity as we'll spend more money and draft picks on FAs trying to make his production go up or get more points off TOs. That's what we've done. He's a great guy and a better QB than more than half of the leagues' starers. My question is to you is: Do you want to get to the next level or continue to be one step away?
diehard is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-2009, 05:00 PM   #4
Fire Bruce NOW
 
Lotus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Hattiesburg, MS
Posts: 11,275
Re: Wanted: Playmakers

You have Randle El listed as a playmaker?

I agree that JC has to go down field more often and show off that cannon arm. Nonetheless, in a new system in 2008, and behind a creaky OL, JC's qb rating was better than Favre, Flacco, Kerry Collins, and Roethlisberger. His completion percentage was better than Romo, Eli Manning, and Matt Ryan. He also threw for more yards than Eli Manning. And he threw fewer interceptions than just about everyone who starts. JC actually makes more good plays than you give him credit for.

As for bad plays, I will argue against Favre. Except when Green Bay had a solid defense and a good running game in the late '90s, Green Bay was up-and-down with Favre. So were the Jets. Cutler has a sub-.500 record as a starter.

The fact is, Super Bowls are more often won with qb's who are careful with the ball than they are with wild gunslingers. During the course of a 3 or 4 game playoff run, a wild gunslinger is going to kill you, sooner or later, with picks. On this note the 2007 Giants still owe Favre a thank-you card.
__________________
Bruce Allen's record in Washington: 28-52
Vinny Cerrato's record: 52-65
We won more with Vinny
Lotus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-2009, 05:12 PM   #5
Impact Rookie
 
SOUL-SKINS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 876
Re: Wanted: Playmakers

GTripp, go easy.
__________________
TODD COLLINS WILL ALWAYS HOLD A SPECIAL PLACE IN MY HEART
SOUL-SKINS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-2009, 05:14 PM   #6
Living Legend
 
GTripp0012's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Evanston, IL
Age: 26
Posts: 15,994
Re: Wanted: Playmakers

I'm not even going to respond to this. You can't have a playmakers post and not mention Anthony Mix. That's just crazy.
__________________
according to a source with knowledge of the situation.
GTripp0012 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-2009, 05:15 PM   #7
The Starter
 
SC Skins Fan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: South Carolina
Posts: 1,555
Re: Wanted: Playmakers

Quote:
Originally Posted by SOUL-SKINS View Post
GTripp, go easy.
GTripp, don't bother. How much more breath must be wasted here?
__________________
It has taken a long time, but I have finally realized that nothing I say about the Redskins will have any effect upon anything the Redskins do.
SC Skins Fan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-2009, 05:27 PM   #8
The Starter
 
diehard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Norfolk, Va (OV)
Posts: 1,566
Re: Wanted: Playmakers

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lotus View Post
You have Randle El listed as a playmaker?
Yes. REL is a playmaker. He's proved that before signing with us. Would you say Santonio Holmes or Devin Hester are play makers? The answer is, with the right QB, (Cutler, Roethlisberger) definitely yes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lotus View Post
I agree that JC has to go down field more often and show off that cannon arm. Nonetheless, in a new system in 2008, and behind a creaky OL, JC's qb rating was better than Favre, Flacco, Kerry Collins, and Roethlisberger. His completion percentage was better than Romo, Eli Manning, and Matt Ryan. He also threw for more yards than Eli Manning. And he threw fewer interceptions than just about everyone who starts. JC actually makes more good plays than you give him credit for.
I'm not taking away Campbell's QB rating or his safe decision making. Just as your posts states, QB ratings obviously don't get you into the playoffs. I'd rather have a one of those QBs you mentioned and have a shot at postseason play than have a QB with a perfect QB rating and miss the playoffs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lotus View Post
As for bad plays, I will argue against Favre. Except when Green Bay had a solid defense and a good running game in the late '90s, Green Bay was up-and-down with Favre. So were the Jets. Cutler has a sub-.500 record as a starter.
GB had more winning seasons than losses with Farve and did they ever win the SB? You know the team that Farve is playing on always had a chance, even last years NYJ. As for DEN they were ranked near the bottom as far as defense goes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lotus View Post
The fact is, Super Bowls are more often won with qb's who are careful with the ball than they are with wild gunslingers. During the course of a 3 or 4 game playoff run, a wild gunslinger is going to kill you, sooner or later, with picks. On this note the 2007 Giants still owe Favre a thank-you card.
On the contrary. Defense wins championships. And we don't do a lot of scoring of turnovers (see James Harrison and his low rating QB Roethlsberger)
diehard is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-2009, 05:27 PM   #9
Fire Bruce NOW
 
Lotus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Hattiesburg, MS
Posts: 11,275
Re: Wanted: Playmakers

Quote:
Originally Posted by GTripp0012 View Post
I'm not even going to respond to this. You can't have a playmakers post and not mention Anthony Mix. That's just crazy.
__________________
Bruce Allen's record in Washington: 28-52
Vinny Cerrato's record: 52-65
We won more with Vinny
Lotus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-2009, 05:39 PM   #10
The Starter
 
diehard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Norfolk, Va (OV)
Posts: 1,566
Re: Wanted: Playmakers

Quote:
Originally Posted by GTripp0012 View Post
I'm not even going to respond to this. You can't have a playmakers post and not mention Anthony Mix. That's just crazy.
What else is there to say. We'll all have to wait and see. Most of you aren't still crying over Patrick Ramsey although he wasn't given a fair chance. And Campbell was always a better prospect than Ramsey.
diehard is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-2009, 05:42 PM   #11
The Starter
 
30gut's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 2,108
Re: Wanted: Playmakers

Quote:
Originally Posted by diehard View Post
A team can surely win with Jason Campbell or a Trent Dilfer but, you have to make sure other attributes of the team make up for the lack of risk taking.
Hey bro, superbowls are one by a TEAM not a QB.
You can't rob Peter to pay Paul in the NFL and expect to win.
Going after a Cutler or Sanchez might improve the QB.*
But giving up what it would take to get them would surely weaken other areas of the team.

I personally don't think Cutler would have been a sure-fire improvement over Campbell. If you project the trend of Campbell's play in his 1st year with Zorn to Cutler's 3rd year with Shanahan i think the numbers would be similiar and you have to factor in the defenses in the NFC East and the AFC West.
__________________
No longer were NFL coaches dealing inflexibly with spread [QBs] in ways that caused stunted development for players like [A. Smith and Vick] now, the idea is to bring what the quarterback can do, and what he should do, together as an organic whole
30gut is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-2009, 05:43 PM   #12
Franchise Player
 
skinsfan69's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Arlington, VA.
Posts: 9,921
Re: Wanted: Playmakers

Quote:
Originally Posted by diehard View Post
Moss? Check.
Cooley? Check.
Randle El (now known as Santonio Holmes)? Check.
Jason Campbell? Hmmm.

I too am warming up to the idea that if we want to get to the promise land it may take drafting Sanchez or probably giving Colt Brennan a shot. Why? It's no secret that Campbell has had a lot of instablility as far a OCs go but, look at his game. Even at Auburn his impressive W-L record and national championship title was helped much by a strong defense and running game (Cadillac Williams and Ronnie Brown). This reveals Campbell strengths. He does a great job making safe reads and takes very few chances with the football. The Skins have had a top 5 defense for most of the years he's started and a very effective running game so, we can afford to be more risky in that regard. Also, even though we have had great defenses, we are not one that have a lot of takeaways, or points off of, as the 2000 Ravens did. And before you say the WR corps was the culprit, Moss, Randle El, and Cooley are better than Cutler's Brandon Marshall, Eddie Royal, and Daniel Graham/Tony Sheffler. I believe Cutler's big numbers are a result of his ability to let it fly (watch what he does in CHI under his new OC and former FA bust Brandon Lloyd and REL-like Devin Hester). Something Campbell doesn't risk doing often. That's why Jay Cutler or a Brett Farve will have a eye-popping number of INTs to go with thier impressive TD stats. Who's to argue that Farve isn't a winner? A franchise QB? A team can surely win with Jason Campbell or a Trent Dilfer but, you have to make sure other attributes of the team make up for the lack of risk taking.
I'd have to strongly disagree here. Marshall is better than Moss. Is there really even an argument over that? Royal is hands down already a better wr than ARE. He had some monster games as a rookie. I don't know his numbers but he was near 100 catches. ARE has never even caught 60. Cooley is better than Tony S. But TE's don't have the same impact as top flight wr's do.
skinsfan69 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-2009, 05:45 PM   #13
The Starter
 
diehard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Norfolk, Va (OV)
Posts: 1,566
Re: Wanted: Playmakers

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lotus View Post
Those three trophies as your avatar are starting to rust. I don't know about y'all but I'm tired of 'eating off' championships of yesteryear. I might as well root for DAL if I have to do that...
diehard is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-2009, 05:47 PM   #14
You did WHAT?!?
 
EARTHQUAKE2689's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: In The Kitchen With Dyna.
Age: 25
Posts: 12,330
Re: Wanted: Playmakers

Quote:
Originally Posted by diehard View Post
No. Campbell just doesn't fit where we are right now as a defense. If we commit to him and re-sign him for another multi-year deal we're in for more mediocrity as we'll spend more money and draft picks on FAs trying to make his production go up or get more points off TOs. That's what we've done. He's a great guy and a better QB than more than half of the leagues' starers. My question is to you is: Do you want to get to the next level or continue to be one step away?

I didnt know Campbell played defense
__________________
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bpp3ycMvQd0

This is why you need Mentos. To justify your questionable problem solving skills.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z7geP5ev0VI

Awesome isn't it.
EARTHQUAKE2689 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-2009, 05:47 PM   #15
Playmaker
 
Paintrain's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Ft. Lauderdale, FL
Age: 44
Posts: 4,981
Re: Wanted: Playmakers

Quote:
Originally Posted by diehard View Post
What else is there to say. We'll all have to wait and see. Most of you aren't still crying over Patrick Ramsey although he wasn't given a fair chance. And Campbell was always a better prospect than Ramsey.
Quote:
Originally Posted by diehard
I too am warming up to the idea that if we want to get to the promise land it may take drafting Sanchez or probably giving Colt Brennan a shot.
Wow. Give Colt a shot AND Ramsey wasn't given a fair chance all in one thread. It's like I died and went to Redskins fan QB fantasy hell.
__________________
Paintrain's Redskins Fandom
1981-2014

I'm not dead but this team is dead to me...but now that McCloughan is here they may have new life!
Paintrain is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:34 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2015, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site is not officially affiliated with the Washington Redskins or the NFL.
Page generated in 0.34122 seconds with 9 queries

Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.2.0 RC5

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25