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Trading Players for Draft Picks Game

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Old 04-23-2009, 09:39 AM   #16
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Re: Trading Players for Draft Picks Game

It kinda sounds in the grand scheme of the front office, is the Skins are going to start all over with youth on Offense(Something that was yelled loudly here on this site) but of course the way the FO is doing it, it hurts a lot.

Example:

Get Sanchez, Young WR's last year, Young TE last year

Going with that thinking there are some players who we would be wasting till the youth grows up football wise... like
Clinton Portis 30year old backs go down hill! Clinton is 27 but the Skins ride him hard!
Santana Moss near 30 and not a number 1 reciever!
Betts, ARE and JC are a given. Trade bate material all the way!

I am not saying I agree but some have to watch out what they want cause Vinny and Dan do things how they want!
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Old 04-23-2009, 09:52 AM   #17
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Re: Trading Players for Draft Picks Game

I know some ppl won't agree with me on this but i would trade Santana OR (not AND) ARE immediately. They both have trade value and we have a stockpile of wide receivers (albeit unspectacular WR's). I think we could definitely find suitors for either of them. I think the problem is that by having both of them we limit ourselves offensively with the WCO that we are trying to set up. In a way i think it would be addition by subtraction if we can get a day 1 pick out of a deal and draft a starter.

I am also not a big fan of paying Betts to sit on the bench. I think he is both very tradeable and expendable. If we can get a 4th rounder and a later pick for him, i'd be all for it. We can use that 4th rounder to draft an immediate need (LB, DE, OL) and the later pick to draft a backup RB to replace him.
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Old 04-23-2009, 09:55 AM   #18
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Re: Trading Players for Draft Picks Game

Had to add that I love the thread, btw...
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Old 04-23-2009, 10:00 AM   #19
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Re: Trading Players for Draft Picks Game

I really wouldn't trade anyone right now outside of Campbell assuming he's involved in a trade up to grab Sanchez.
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Old 04-23-2009, 10:02 AM   #20
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Re: Trading Players for Draft Picks Game

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Originally Posted by derekc4 View Post
Rogers and Campbell. Rogers would cost money, but Campbell would save us money. Rogers could probably get a low 2nd or 3rd while Campbell could probably get between a 2nd or 4th. Hard to gauge value.
A good place to start but we may need to keep Carlos one more year so we can worry about the defensive backfield later. If I could get a 2nd rounder for Betts I would do that and package Kareem Moore and Malcom? Kelley for another 2nd rounder.
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Old 04-23-2009, 10:09 AM   #21
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Re: Trading Players for Draft Picks Game

Portis for a 2nd rounder IF we could get it. He's only got so much left.
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Old 04-23-2009, 10:11 AM   #22
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Re: Trading Players for Draft Picks Game

I know we're not supposed to worry about cap hits....but can't really talk trades without it. Moss is really the only one with potential value and a minimal cap hit. We're stuck with ARE thru 2011 he's got minimal value anyway (maybe a 4th or 5th). Portis has value but he's here at least thru 2009. If we could get a mid-high 2nd for Moss, I'd move him.

If we draft a QB (bonehead move), then we need to move Campbell sometime on day one of the draft for hopefully a 2nd, even if it's in 2010. If we don't, he certainly won't resign with us and we'll get no value. If I'm GM and we're smart and don't go QB, right after the draft I start working on an extension with him before the season starts, if he can be locked up for a contract that pays him for his performance level up to now, we're getting great value if he's successful, if not we're locking up a capable back-up for 4-5 years for high, but not crazy money.
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Old 04-23-2009, 10:22 AM   #23
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Re: Trading Players for Draft Picks Game

Interesting thread, Ruhskins. I'll try to be realistic in terms of which players we can live without, actually have value, and wouldnt create an enormous cap hit.

Santana Moss - He only has one or two productive years left and could be enticing to teams who feel they are contenders in 2009 and 2010. We are probably 3 years away at best, so i'd attempt to trade him.
Required Compensation: 2nd OR a 3rd and 4th.

Jason Campbell - The only way would consider trading Campbell is if we draft Sanchez. Even then, the compensation would need to be good. If not, i'd rather keep Campbell and have he and Sanchez compete for the job. Its possible Campbell would win the job, play well and increase his trade value in 2010. We could then trade franchise and Campbell or trade Sanchez for a 1st round pick (or more) in 2010.
Required Compensation: 2nd OR a 3rd and 4th

Chris Horton - Yes, i made this argument earlier, and no one agreed with me, but I stand by it now. Horton and Landry are both Strong Safeties and starting Horton at SS means were forced to play Landry at SS. We have good safety depth now, but i'd consider offers for Horton if we used those picks to upgrade our lines. Kareem Moore (FS) and Landry (SS) is a better safety tandem than Landry (FS) and Horton (SS). Also, Horton and Doughty are very similar players, except Horton has trade value and Doughty doesnt. Yes, i know Horton was THE highlight of last years draft class, but i'm confident we could turn that 7th round pick into a 3rd rounder this year.
Required Compensation High 3rd rounder or no deal.

Golston, Montgommery, or Alexander Its nice to have all three of these guys, but i don't see all three resigning with us when their contracts expire over the next couple years. All three are potential rotational starters, but now that we have Haynesworth, they will each see far more limited duty. It would be wise to move one of them now. Compensation would vary depending on the player, but I wouldnt let any of them go for a 5th or 6th round pick.
Required Compensation: 3rd for Golston, 4th for the other two.
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Old 04-23-2009, 10:25 AM   #24
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Re: Trading Players for Draft Picks Game

If we can't get more than just a 2nd rounder for portis, i wouldn't want to even entertain the idea of a trade...He is pretty much the face of the franchise and is worth as much to Dannyboy for what he does on the field as what he represents off of it.
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Old 04-23-2009, 10:27 AM   #25
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Re: Trading Players for Draft Picks Game

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Originally Posted by Slingin Sammy 33 View Post
We're stuck with ARE thru 2011
Pretty sure all the contracts of ARE and Carter make them very cutable after before the 2010 season... its only if we keep them through 2010 season that we become "stuck" with them thru 2011. I'm 99 percent sure AREs cut after this season and i'm 50/50 with Carter - it depends on how he plays this year and what happenes at the other DE position. He's certainly a very good end, but his play will start to decline soon and he probably wont be worth his contract in 2011.
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Old 04-23-2009, 11:07 AM   #26
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Re: Trading Players for Draft Picks Game

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Pretty sure all the contracts of ARE and Carter make them very cutable after before the 2010 season... its only if we keep them through 2010 season that we become "stuck" with them thru 2011. I'm 99 percent sure AREs cut after this season and i'm 50/50 with Carter - it depends on how he plays this year and what happenes at the other DE position. He's certainly a very good end, but his play will start to decline soon and he probably wont be worth his contract in 2011.
Remember the big contracts and signing bonuses those guys completed, I think one or both may have also extended or pushed a bonus up front to free up cap space. The cap hits on both are WAAAAYYYY to high to release them before the end of 2011. Not sure what you're referring to here.

Check out the drop down tabs at the top of the page, go to "Team Info" then to "Salary Cap Info". This is a cap sheet with detailed contract info and release fees. Invaluable info here for any discussion of trades, contracts, etc. (thanks again CC).
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Old 04-23-2009, 11:09 AM   #27
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Re: Trading Players for Draft Picks Game

C. Griffin, ARE, Carter, D. Thomas in that order.

Griffin is often hurt & we are now deep at DT. He might bring a 4th round pick.

ARE is a good team guy & maybe more valuable as a steady vet behind the scenes, but is limited on the field. They don't even run many gadget plays w/him. He might get a 4th.

AC is a good team guy it appears, and his play v. the run has really improved. However, that might be at the expense of his pass rush, his specialty. I only see one move from him, trying to beat the ot around the edge. He's getting too old for that. He could possibly get a 3rd from a desparate team, but I doubt it.

Thomas shows signs of being a relative bust & attitude problem. If someone offered a 2nd for him it would be worth a long look. This is not something I want to see happen, it would mean that the coaches pretty much don't have faith in him improving much. I realized he's the next in line as the main outside speedster. Someone of value would have to take his place.
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Old 04-23-2009, 11:18 AM   #28
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Re: Trading Players for Draft Picks Game

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Originally Posted by BleedBurgundy View Post
Portis for a 2nd rounder IF we could get it. He's only got so much left.
So you trust Betts THAT much? He'd set the all-time NFL record for fumbles if starting all year.

We better draft a RB at #13 if we do that deal.
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Old 04-23-2009, 12:51 PM   #29
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Re: Trading Players for Draft Picks Game

Quote:
Originally Posted by Slingin Sammy 33
Remember the big contracts and signing bonuses those guys completed, I think one or both may have also extended or pushed a bonus up front to free up cap space. The cap hits on both are WAAAAYYYY to high to release them before the end of 2011. Not sure what you're referring to here.

Check out the drop down tabs at the top of the page, go to "Team Info" then to "Salary Cap Info". This is a cap sheet with detailed contract info and release fees. Invaluable info here for any discussion of trades, contracts, etc. (thanks again CC).
I trust CC knows 1000 times more about this than I do, but looking at the contracts, which JLC provided, i think CC is calculating their release fees under the assumption the skins choose to pay Carter and ARE their option bonuses prior to the 2010 season.

If we don't pay the option bonus, the release fees would be significantly smaller - read below:

Redskins Insider - The Full Carter And Randle El Contracts

Quote:
The Full Carter And Randle El Contracts

Let's start with Carter.

As part of his new contract, he received a $3 million signing bonus, and his deal now extends through 2015 (in principle at least, more on that in a moment). And he has a $7.25 million option bonus in 2010, which the club has until Aug. 31, 2010 to decide whether or not to pick up. If that option bonus is executed, then Carter's deal extends through 2015, with that $7.25 million then prorated over the ensuing six seasons.

If Carter's option bonus is picked up, his 2010 base salary is $1.3 million. If that option is not executed, then Carter's 2010 base salary jumps to $1.95 million, and he becomes eligible for unrestricted free agency following the 2010 season (barring yet another renegotiation/new contract; these two guys have don't 3 deals each with the Skins in 4 years here)

Should the Redskins opt to cut Carter after the 2009 season, prior to executing the option bonus, then Carter would count about $5.1 million in dead cap space (Now, there's a chance we don't get a new CBA in the next year, in which case 2010 is uncapped, so cap hits wouldn't matter. I'm starting to think more and more that common sense prevails here and labor peace wins, but who knows).

The Randle El contract is virtually identical in theory.

As part of his new deal he got a $2.5 million signing bonus, and his deal now has the potential to extend years beyond his old one, through 2015 at max. And he has a $6.25 million option bonus in 2010, which the club has until Aug. 31, 2010 to decide whether or not to pick up. If that option bonus is executed, then Randle El's deal can go through 2015, with that $6.25 million prorated over the ensuing six seasons (feel like you are reading the same paragraph over and over?).

If Randle El's option bonus is executed, his 2010 base salary is $1.375 million. If that option is not executed, then Randle El's 2010 base salary jumps to $1.95 million and he is eligible to become an unrestricted free agent following the 2010 season. Should the Redskins opt to cut Randle El after the 2009 season, prior to executing the option bonus, then Randle El would count $4.4 million in dead cap space.

So there you have it. Nothing too earth shattering; typical Skins business. They were going to face decisions on these guys following the 2009 season already, under their previous deals, and will end up doing so again, only with the players now having the chance to get another $13.5 million in total guaranteed between them at a later stage of their career should those options get picked up.

Neither has been very productive since signing lucrative free agent deals here in March of 2006, and both play positions that have been woefully unproductive here on the whole. From the player standpoint, there's every incentive to do these deals, they end up getting more money up front now and the chance to earn much more. The team's only real incentive is to try to get under the cap, again, and this helps a bit. It's really just shifting some money around - salary cap gymnastics.
IMO when Carter and ARE signed these new contracts, they did so with the knowledge that they would likely be cut after the 2009 season. There's no way we're picking up AREs option. The skins will gladly take the 4.4M hit to cut ARE.
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Old 04-23-2009, 01:08 PM   #30
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Re: Trading Players for Draft Picks Game

Heavy interest in Mark Sanchez in NFL draft - ESPN

it looks like Jason Campbell is still on the block.
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