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57 Mocks Munched! Suh Consensus No. 1, Bradford for Skins

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Old 01-30-2010, 04:03 PM   #121
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Re: 57 Mocks Munched! Suh Consensus No. 1, Bradford for Skins

Tenatively, I have the following projections on the QB class:

1. McCoy, 1st round (middle third)
2. Clausen, 1st round (middle third)
3. Bradford, 1st round (middle third)
4. Tebow, 1st round (lower third)
5. Pike, 3rd round
6. LeFevour, 3rd round
7. Kafka, 4th round
8. Zac Robinson, 4th round
9. Max Hall, 4th round
10. Jarrett Brown, 5th round
11. Bill Stull, 5th round
12. Sean Canfield, 7th round
13. Jevan Snead, priority UDFA

I don't have a grade on Skelton yet, he could be as high as No. 5, or as low as the 6th round.
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Old 01-30-2010, 04:07 PM   #122
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Re: 57 Mocks Munched! Suh Consensus No. 1, Bradford for Skins

For the record, my grades last year gave me this:

1. Josh Freeman, 2nd round
2. Matt Stafford, 2nd round
3. Nate Davis, 3rd round
4. Graham Harrell, 3rd round
5. Pat White, 4th round
6. Mark Sanchez, 4th round
7. Brian Hoyer, Priority UDFA

This year's class is MUCH deeper, and generally stronger. But there's still no ideal top ten picks.
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Old 01-30-2010, 04:09 PM   #123
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Re: 57 Mocks Munched! Suh Consensus No. 1, Bradford for Skins

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On the NFL level I think that is yet to be decided. Even though Bradford has a ton of potential, he also has many more questions about his transition to the pros than Okung. I haven't seen a scouting report yet that didn't project Okung to be a starter from day one.
I agree on Okung. He's definitely a starter from day 1 but to be Super Bowl contenders on an annual basis you need a franchise QB. Even the Vikings who built all the grunt positions had trouble getting anywhere without a QB. I know people are going to cite the Jets but I'll continue to insist that they were very lucky and you can't count on how they won this year to get you to the playoffs never mind the Super Bowl.

They will be very dependent next year on the development of Sanchez to be contenders otherwise they'll have to hope they get two teams that lie down in the last two weeks then play against horrible placekickers come playoff time.

One of the things though that I like about Bradford is the fact that his numbers in a pro style system as a Redshirt Freshman were better then Eli Manning coming out as a Senior. Heck they were comparable to Phillip Rivers as a senior. The guy is off the charts in everything you want in a QB except for health and thats likely to be fine in the long run. Besides Bradford likely won't play in 2010. Still the accuracy, production, and intangibles are to much to pass up on. Especially the production. Just compare him to any QB coming out in the past decade and you'll be hard pressed to find QB's that didn't go to Texas Tech with stats comprable to Bradford.

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This year's class is MUCH deeper, and generally stronger. But there's still no ideal top ten picks.
Ha ha, is there even such a thing as an ideal top 10 pick at QB? Even Peyton had his doubters when he was drafted. In fact last QB I can remember that drew minimal complaints when drafted 1st overall was Michael Vick and look how that turned out.
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Old 01-30-2010, 04:25 PM   #124
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Re: 57 Mocks Munched! Suh Consensus No. 1, Bradford for Skins

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Ha ha, is there even such a thing as an ideal top 10 pick at QB? Even Peyton had his doubters when he was drafted. In fact last QB I can remember that drew minimal complaints when drafted 1st overall was Michael Vick and look how that turned out.
The 2004 class had a few of them. No one really complained about Eli at No. 1, only about the ridiculous trade that the Giants made to get him. And Roethlisberger would not have been considered a reach at No. 2 overall, he just happened to slide a little bit.

Rivers didn't get a whole lot of draft pub that year, but it was hard to find a flaw in his game outside of his funky delivery. I don't think being ignored is the same as having major flaws.

Bradford is certainly not in the same class as those three, although I agree that he (if not McCoy) is the highest efficiency college player in the draft. Higher than Tebow, even.
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Old 01-30-2010, 04:49 PM   #125
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Re: 57 Mocks Munched! Suh Consensus No. 1, Bradford for Skins

And the 2006 class certainly had top ten types. I think you could argue that they were all top ten types. Palmer in 2003 as well.

None of the 2006 picks have been managaed particularly well, despite the fact that Fisher and Whisenhunt, and to a lesser extent, Shanahan, are among they best coaches in the game.
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Old 01-30-2010, 05:47 PM   #126
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Re: 57 Mocks Munched! Suh Consensus No. 1, Bradford for Skins

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And the 2006 class certainly had top ten types. I think you could argue that they were all top ten types. Palmer in 2003 as well.

None of the 2006 picks have been managaed particularly well, despite the fact that Fisher and Whisenhunt, and to a lesser extent, Shanahan, are among they best coaches in the game.
Lineart should be a pro-bowler by now, but his party habits have gotten the best of him. Either way this is his last chance in Arizona so we'll see how he does. Young certainly could go either way at this point. Cutler on the other hand is lost without Shanahan. We'll see if he can recapture the magic but yeah I wouldn't hold by breathe on Cutler. Sadly as it stands right now Jason Campbell is better then all 3 of those guys.

Of course Bradford will be a perennial pro bowler with us so I'm not worried
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Old 01-30-2010, 06:37 PM   #127
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Re: 57 Mocks Munched! Suh Consensus No. 1, Bradford for Skins

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Originally Posted by Dirtbag359 View Post
I agree on Okung. He's definitely a starter from day 1 but to be Super Bowl contenders on an annual basis you need a franchise QB. Even the Vikings who built all the grunt positions had trouble getting anywhere without a QB. I know people are going to cite the Jets but I'll continue to insist that they were very lucky and you can't count on how they won this year to get you to the playoffs never mind the Super Bowl.

They will be very dependent next year on the development of Sanchez to be contenders otherwise they'll have to hope they get two teams that lie down in the last two weeks then play against horrible placekickers come playoff time.

One of the things though that I like about Bradford is the fact that his numbers in a pro style system as a Redshirt Freshman were better then Eli Manning coming out as a Senior. Heck they were comparable to Phillip Rivers as a senior. The guy is off the charts in everything you want in a QB except for health and thats likely to be fine in the long run. Besides Bradford likely won't play in 2010. Still the accuracy, production, and intangibles are to much to pass up on. Especially the production. Just compare him to any QB coming out in the past decade and you'll be hard pressed to find QB's that didn't go to Texas Tech with stats comprable to Bradford.



Ha ha, is there even such a thing as an ideal top 10 pick at QB? Even Peyton had his doubters when he was drafted. In fact last QB I can remember that drew minimal complaints when drafted 1st overall was Michael Vick and look how that turned out.
Yep. Like the Dolphins were with Dan Marino? Or the Ravens with Trent Dilfer? That pretty much tells me an above average QB can win the SB with a team that excells in other areas other than QB, while a team with a "franchise " QB can't do it alone. We can win with JC, we can't with this o-line. I'll take the OT and build from there.
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Old 01-30-2010, 07:54 PM   #128
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Re: 57 Mocks Munched! Suh Consensus No. 1, Bradford for Skins

I may have just joined but after reading what everyone is saying about the whole QB or OG/T debate, I think this needs to be said.

I've been an Oklahoma fan since I've been watching football and I can't express enough how good Sam Bradford really is. The second he stepped in it was almost instant that I realized we were about to have a potential NFL HOFer on our roster. Now before I get into his negatives let me clear up his positive side.

First of all a lot of people will question the style of offense that he's ran in college. This is a legitimate thought UNTILL you realize he went from a pro style offense in his early career into a spread offense where he was equally successful. My biggest worry was when Malcolm Kelly got drafted by the Redskins (PLEASE USE HIM!), but no Sam had an even better year without him and proved he can work with a smaller skill level. In my opinion he's leagues beyond Clausen in that he has handled more pressure and realizes what he has to live up to, he really does have perfect morals to bring to DC.

Now the negative part is that he has a horrible shoulder now.. The biggest thing you could say is NOBODY knows how bad it really is. Nobody on here will be able to say anything about it so let's base everything we have on him with what he's done in the past. Other than his fragile shoulder, the only thing I question is that he has been on a team that's had a great offensive line. Now don't get me wrong I have seen him show some great composure against the blitz, but I don't think that's relevant when you have dwight freeney and robert mathis pounding their way through a terrible line.

Basically my thoughts on the upcoming draft are to get Bradford assuming his shoulder has healed to atleast 85% and then focus 100% on tackles, guards and centers. I believe instead of questioning whether or not there's a legitimate QB worth our pick we should question if there's a legitimate lineman which I don't think there is. If I was Bruce or Mike I would even consider drafting a future safety star in Eric Berry before a tackle.
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Old 01-30-2010, 08:02 PM   #129
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Re: 57 Mocks Munched! Suh Consensus No. 1, Bradford for Skins

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Originally Posted by IrMitchell View Post
I may have just joined but after reading what everyone is saying about the whole QB or OG/T debate, I think this needs to be said.

I've been an Oklahoma fan since I've been watching football and I can't express enough how good Sam Bradford really is. The second he stepped in it was almost instant that I realized we were about to have a potential NFL HOFer on our roster. Now before I get into his negatives let me clear up his positive side.

First of all a lot of people will question the style of offense that he's ran in college. This is a legitimate thought UNTILL you realize he went from a pro style offense in his early career into a spread offense where he was equally successful. My biggest worry was when Malcolm Kelly got drafted by the Redskins (PLEASE USE HIM!), but no Sam had an even better year without him and proved he can work with a smaller skill level. In my opinion he's leagues beyond Clausen in that he has handled more pressure and realizes what he has to live up to, he really does have perfect morals to bring to DC.

Now the negative part is that he has a horrible shoulder now.. The biggest thing you could say is NOBODY knows how bad it really is. Nobody on here will be able to say anything about it so let's base everything we have on him with what he's done in the past. Other than his fragile shoulder, the only thing I question is that he has been on a team that's had a great offensive line. Now don't get me wrong I have seen him show some great composure against the blitz, but I don't think that's relevant when you have dwight freeney and robert mathis pounding their way through a terrible line.

Basically my thoughts on the upcoming draft are to get Bradford assuming his shoulder has healed to atleast 85% and then focus 100% on tackles, guards and centers. I believe instead of questioning whether or not there's a legitimate QB worth our pick we should question if there's a legitimate lineman which I don't think there is. If I was Bruce or Mike I would even consider drafting a future safety star in Eric Berry before a tackle.
welcome to the board and if we don't trade down that is the reality of the situation
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Old 01-30-2010, 08:18 PM   #130
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Re: 57 Mocks Munched! Suh Consensus No. 1, Bradford for Skins

Welcome to the board IrMitchell! I can certainly understand your affection for Bradford. I think he has the potential to be great. I'm not as certain how well he'll hold up in the NFL. There is no way I think he could take the beating JC took behind this o-line. I do think Okung is worthy of the #4 pick and could hold down the LT spot at a high level for years. I would love to have Bradford, but not at #4. The o-line was, and has been, our weak spot for longer than just last season and IMO we need to address it in a big way. In fact, I feel it should be our #1 priority. It needs surgery, not band-aids.
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Old 01-30-2010, 08:21 PM   #131
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Re: 57 Mocks Munched! Suh Consensus No. 1, Bradford for Skins

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Originally Posted by IrMitchell View Post
First of all a lot of people will question the style of offense that he's ran in college. This is a legitimate thought UNTILL you realize he went from a pro style offense in his early career into a spread offense where he was equally successful. My biggest worry was when Malcolm Kelly got drafted by the Redskins (PLEASE USE HIM!), but no Sam had an even better year without him and proved he can work with a smaller skill level. In my opinion he's leagues beyond Clausen in that he has handled more pressure and realizes what he has to live up to, he really does have perfect morals to bring to DC.
Actually the fact that Kelly has struggled so much without Bradford is a testament to how great he is as a QB.
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Old 01-30-2010, 08:26 PM   #132
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Re: 57 Mocks Munched! Suh Consensus No. 1, Bradford for Skins

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Actually the fact that Kelly has struggled so much without Bradford is a testament to how great he is as a QB.
True, but I think anyone who saw Kelly in college knows that he just needs some time.

But yes that's just one mans opinion. We'll see what Bruce and Mike decide but I think we can all agree on one thing that they will make the right decision.
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Old 01-30-2010, 08:41 PM   #133
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Re: 57 Mocks Munched! Suh Consensus No. 1, Bradford for Skins

The entire offense look like shit last year, not just Kelly or Moss or Portis or so on....
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Old 02-01-2010, 03:12 PM   #134
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Re: 57 Mocks Munched! Suh Consensus No. 1, Bradford for Skins

Just because Bradford and Kelly have previous chemistry does not mean they will have immediate production, to assume that would be naive. It's also naive to believe that honestly, 2 unproven players can be Jay Cutler and Brandon Marshall. While I would welcome that (minus the interceptions of course haha) I dont expect to see anything over the top, I'd expect to see a rookie, play like a rookie.
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Old 02-01-2010, 04:20 PM   #135
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Re: 57 Mocks Munched! Suh Consensus No. 1, Bradford for Skins

Quote:
Originally Posted by IrMitchell View Post
I may have just joined but after reading what everyone is saying about the whole QB or OG/T debate, I think this needs to be said.

I've been an Oklahoma fan since I've been watching football and I can't express enough how good Sam Bradford really is. The second he stepped in it was almost instant that I realized we were about to have a potential NFL HOFer on our roster. Now before I get into his negatives let me clear up his positive side.

First of all a lot of people will question the style of offense that he's ran in college. This is a legitimate thought UNTILL you realize he went from a pro style offense in his early career into a spread offense where he was equally successful. My biggest worry was when Malcolm Kelly got drafted by the Redskins (PLEASE USE HIM!), but no Sam had an even better year without him and proved he can work with a smaller skill level. In my opinion he's leagues beyond Clausen in that he has handled more pressure and realizes what he has to live up to, he really does have perfect morals to bring to DC.

Now the negative part is that he has a horrible shoulder now.. The biggest thing you could say is NOBODY knows how bad it really is. Nobody on here will be able to say anything about it so let's base everything we have on him with what he's done in the past. Other than his fragile shoulder, the only thing I question is that he has been on a team that's had a great offensive line. Now don't get me wrong I have seen him show some great composure against the blitz, but I don't think that's relevant when you have dwight freeney and robert mathis pounding their way through a terrible line.

Basically my thoughts on the upcoming draft are to get Bradford assuming his shoulder has healed to atleast 85% and then focus 100% on tackles, guards and centers. I believe instead of questioning whether or not there's a legitimate QB worth our pick we should question if there's a legitimate lineman which I don't think there is. If I was Bruce or Mike I would even consider drafting a future safety star in Eric Berry before a tackle.
Welcome to the board.

What you said is not completely true. Bradford injured his AC joint. Then he tried to come back too fast and injured it again. A lot of folks see his senior year as two injuries but really it was just one, mismanaged, injury.

The thing is, the AC joint, when allowed to heal properly, heals up completely without long-term susceptibility to injury. So if Bradford is allowed to heal, then that injury stays in his past and does not need to be accounted for in thoughts about the future. The injury he had as a senior does not indicate long-term problems.

I think Bradford's injury problems are overblown by many people. I also read today that he has already put on 16 pounds in the offseason, which should allow him to take hits better.
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