Bradford/Clausen now split among Mock Drafts

GTripp0012 · 02-07-2010, 05:10 AM

Before we go off the wall on Bradford, can someone remind me of a player who missed either their last year of college ball with injury, or their first year of pro ball with injury (the qualifying factor is the practice time...were they unable to practice most of the year?), and went on to acheive great success.

I'm not talking about relative success at a position...that's what we already have at the QB position. I'm talking about unquestionable, best of era (or in the discussion) at their position. Made a lot of pro bowls early?

I'm sure if we go back far enough, said player exists. I just can't think of the last one who, like Sam Bradford, basically didn't practice all year after the BYU game, and went on and didn't skip a beat, continuing on at the next level as if the injury year simply never happened.

The first two years of Bradford's college career suggest a player that was destined for NFL stardom. The most critical year leaves us with a player that is, at best, injury prone, and at worst, too unrefined to make the jump. The question is: which NFL comparable would help me reconcile the two "careers" Sam Bradford had. I have statistical comparables, but they suggest simple mediocrity. I'm looking for something more relevant to the player himself.

SmootSmack · 02-07-2010, 09:04 AM

Bradford basically didn't practice after the second injury in mid-October against Texas, after BYU (save for a few days off) he was still practicing, albeit limited on some days.

30gut · 02-07-2010, 10:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CultBrennan59

First off, Kelly and Bradford played for 1 year together, I'm referring to SB redshirt sophomore year only. He had two, maybe three if you count duke robinson starters on his OL, so your statement also holds true, but at the same time, the Big 12 always has good pass rushers and defenses so it's not like the Oline wasn't battle tested or invincible. I wouldn't say that it was a QB friendly system at OU, because its not like a Florida or texas tech or hawaii QB friendly offense, He plays every down with a RB and TE in every formation and occasionally a FB, which to me means its a pro style offense such as what New England and Indy run. If I had to put Clausen and Bradford head to head in the whose offense is more QB friendly, then yeah, I'd go Bradford, but in general I think people really overstate OU's offense as a 'typical college' offense. Plus if you watch bradford, QB friendly or not, he puts the ball where only his receivers can get it, and threads the needle between defenders. His very accurate which is something every coach loves about a QB.

Look dude, i got nothing against Bradford.
But people are starting to talk this dude up as some sort of can't miss prospect by downing the other QBs and the level of competition and system etc..
Bradford has many of the same flaws as the other QBs you mention.
I'm not saying that OU running a QB friendly offense is a knock just that its in the same category as Texas, Florida, WVU etc. Also, how can you deny that OU runs a QB friendly offense when freshmen Landry Jones steps in after Bradfords injury and puts up some good numbers himself 3,198 yds 26 TDs.

The Goat · 02-07-2010, 12:27 PM

I just don't see Shanny and Allen drafting Bradford. 15 pounds of muscle isn't going to turn him into a rocket-arm like Elway or Cutler. I mean even healthy he doesn't seem like the guy...add the serious injury concerns and it just doesn't fit.

CultBrennan59 · 02-07-2010, 01:46 PM

[QUOTE=30gut;661040]Look dude, i got nothing against Bradford.
But people are starting to talk this dude up as some sort of can't miss prospect by downing the other QBs and the level of competition and system etc..
Bradford has many of the same flaws as the other QBs you mention.
I'm not saying that OU running a QB friendly offense is a knock just that its in the same category as Texas, Florida, WVU etc. Also, how can you deny that OU runs a QB friendly offense when freshmen Landry Jones steps in after Bradfords injury and puts up some good numbers himself 3,198 yds 26 TDs.[/QUOTE]

It's called getting good recruits, which Bob Stoops does year in and year out. No one had Paul Thompson as a great NFL QB when he was at OU a few years ago.

Dirtbag59 · 02-07-2010, 01:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 30gut

The legend of Sam Bradford grows.
BTW-You forgot Malcolm Kelly and an near NFL caliber OL.
You also forgot that the QB friendly system OU runs allowed Landry Jones to step in and put up some good numbers too.

And you're forgetting the pro style system Bradford ran his freshman year where he put up 3,100 yard 36 TD's and 8 Int's. And Malcolm Kelly hasn't done much lately to prove that he wasn't a product of good QB play.

mlmdub130 · 02-07-2010, 01:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

Before we go off the wall on Bradford, can someone remind me of a player who missed either their last year of college ball with injury, or their first year of pro ball with injury (the qualifying factor is the practice time...were they unable to practice most of the year?), and went on to acheive great success.

maybe i'm forgetting someone but can you remind me of someone who missed their last year of college fb and then was a top five pick in the draft

Dirtbag59 · 02-07-2010, 01:59 PM

I'd also like to point out the irony that Shanahan runs a QB friendly system.

Quote:

"You have to be accurate," Shanahan said. "You have to be passionate. You have to love what you're doing and study the game inside-out. Some guys are talkers; others are quiet. I've seen people lead in a lot of different ways. ... But you have to have a burning desire to be the best you can."

Read more at the Washington Examiner: For Campbell, future is uncertain | Washington Examiner

Bradford is easily the most accurate QB in this draft.

GTripp0012 · 02-08-2010, 04:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mlmdub130

maybe i'm forgetting someone but can you remind me of someone who missed their last year of college fb and then was a top five pick in the draft

Jason Allen, the University of Tennessee safety (drafted by the Dolphins), was picked somewhere between 16-18 in 2006, and hasn't produced like a first round pick.

Antonio Cromartie was picked in roughly the same range the same year. He's got a pro bowl appearance. But he's had an up and down career.

Neither of those guys were top five picks, but that was probably as much about being defensive backs as being injured. Darrelle Revis, for example, was the 14th overall pick in 2007. People knew he was great at the time, but it's tough to justify a top ten pick on a DB unless you know he's going to be THIS good. Ed Reed was the 23rd? overall pick in 2002.

CultBrennan59 · 02-08-2010, 07:26 PM

^I'm still a little sketch on Berry, but I do think he is an upgrade over Horton/Landry. But not worth us taking with our first round pick

Dirtbag59 · 02-09-2010, 05:44 PM

Per Adam Schefter:

Quote:

The two starting offensive lines have no first-round picks and three undrafted free agents, all from Indianapolis. In fact, the highest drafted offensive line starter in Super Bowl XLIV will be Saints right tackle Jonathan Stinchcomb, whom New Orleans drafted out of Georgia in 2003 with the 37th overall pick. Otherwise, each team's offensive line is filled with scrap-heap pieces that few wanted.

Saints left tackle Jermon Bushrod was drafted out of Towson State University in 2007 with the 125th overall pick, left guard Carl Nicks was drafted out of Nebraska in 2008 with the 164th overall pick, center Jonathan Goodwin was drafted out of Michigan in 2002 with the 154th overall pick, right guard Jahri Evans was drafted out of Division II Bloomsburg in 2006 with the 108th overall pick, and Stinchbomb rounds out the Saints' offensive line.

The Colts' offensive line was even less touted, if that's possible. Left tackle Charlie Johnson was drafted out of Oklahoma State in 2006 with the 199th overall pick; left guard Ryan Lilja was claimed off waivers from the Chiefs in 2004, after he was an undrafted free agent from Kansas State; center Jeff Saturday was an undrafted free agent from North Carolina whom the Ravens released; right guard Kyle DeVan was an undrafted free agent from Oregon State whom the Redskins and Jets waived; and right tackle Ryan Diem was drafted out of Northern Illinois in 2001 with the 118th overall pick. Let this be a lesson as teams attempt to rebuild their offensive lines this offseason.

GridIron26 · 02-09-2010, 06:03 PM

Nice post, Dirtbag! Colts and Saints may have been smart with their O-line men.. Although, this is not something we can say about our Redskins FO.. Well, that might be until Allen and Shanahan came in.. But once again, they haven't started anything yet.. So, all we can do is either (1) assume that FO will continue the same trend that has been going on for years, which is not being smart with O-line.. (2) Or we have to wait until maybe two years later, to determine whether if Allen/Shanahan are being smart with O-line..

Given the both scenarios; I still think the smart move would be to draft Okung or trade down and draft a LT.. This move would help our offense a lot..

Dirtbag59 · 02-09-2010, 07:44 PM

If we do go the "develop a prospect" route at QB I see Zac Robinson as a great fit. Apparently the rumor is that Shanahan would want someone who took a hit to their draft stock, but was originally projected much higher during preseason. Robinson has the zip on his throws to get the ball downfield, accurate, mobile, played under center, and he's played against strong competition.

Personally I don't see the appeal in McCoy. His arm is way to weak, especially on throws like deep outs and he has a tendency to leave receivers high and dry. Maybe the Shanahan's, especially Kyle, will see something and take a flyer but personally I don't see it, in fact I think he's way to similar to Colt Brenan, who obviously is already on our roster.

Pike doesn't have the worlds greatest production but his numbers are solid. He also has the type of build that reminds me of Matt Schuab. Still the lack of experience under center is a pretty big concern.

LeFevoure is a personal favorite, given that he's a MAC QB with great numbers.

GTripp0012 · 02-09-2010, 10:03 PM

Saints drafted Jamaal Brown 13th overall in 2005. He didn't play at all this year, which supports the notion that the left tackle position is overvalued compared to the other positions on the OL, particularly RT. But the Saints got where they are by investing a first and a second round pick in tackles over the last seven drafts, but more directly, by digging up the very best lineman available in the middle rounds, at positions where the draft value system dictates that great players are available if you look in places like Bloomsburg, and Towson State.

Even though the backup LT, Bushrod, was undrafted, the Saints didn't try to live off the middle rounds in the building of the OL. The fact that their interior line actually IS built of middle rounders, which it is, is possible in part because they were able to take college OTs and work them at a new position because they had already developed the two bookends.

In essence, when we had an effective Samuels and Jansen for the forseeable future, the line was our strength. We chose to invest heavily in Randy Thomas back in 2003 because we were working with a crappy interior OL at the time, which was a fine start, and then Dockery and Rabach worked because they were functional pieces in a strong unit that hadn't been skimped on. Kendall, to an extent, was the same principle. But once the cornerstones of our line began to decline, those interior players were exposed.

I don't think that's perfectly analogous to the Saints, because Nicks and Goodwin are strong players in their own right, certainly better than Rabach and Dockery, and helped solve the issue of having a replacement LT this year. But if the Saints OL success is sustainable, I'd imagine that Jamaal Brown is going to be a big part of it.

53Fan · 02-09-2010, 10:29 PM

I must admit that as time goes by the thought of drafting Bradford does get me excited. I think he has what it takes to be a very, very good QB. But then with the annoucement of Russ Grimm going into the HOF, I think again of how much we need a good OL. I read somewhere about how amazing it is that JC's numbers went up playing behind possibly one of the worse OL's in history. With the Hogs, it really didn't matter that we didn't have a franchise QB. And behind the Hogs, even someone like Timmy Smith could run for over 200 yards in the Super Bowl. How much better would JC be, or one of our RB's be running behind a great o-line? It would be nice for the first time in a long time, to be strong in the trenches so we could really know how strong our skill positions really are. I'm so tired of our o-line sucking and our QB getting eaten alive. Maybe it's all the talk about the Hogs lately.....I just wish we could be strong up front once again instead of being a joke.

02-07-2010, 05:10 AM	#121
GTripp0012 Living Legend Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Grand Rapids, MI Age: 25 Posts: 15,143	Re: Bradford/Clausen now split among Mock Drafts Before we go off the wall on Bradford, can someone remind me of a player who missed either their last year of college ball with injury, or their first year of pro ball with injury (the qualifying factor is the practice time...were they unable to practice most of the year?), and went on to acheive great success. I'm not talking about relative success at a position...that's what we already have at the QB position. I'm talking about unquestionable, best of era (or in the discussion) at their position. Made a lot of pro bowls early? I'm sure if we go back far enough, said player exists. I just can't think of the last one who, like Sam Bradford, basically didn't practice all year after the BYU game, and went on and didn't skip a beat, continuing on at the next level as if the injury year simply never happened. The first two years of Bradford's college career suggest a player that was destined for NFL stardom. The most critical year leaves us with a player that is, at best, injury prone, and at worst, too unrefined to make the jump. The question is: which NFL comparable would help me reconcile the two "careers" Sam Bradford had. I have statistical comparables, but they suggest simple mediocrity. I'm looking for something more relevant to the player himself. __________________ Shanahan: “The bad thing is he's [Sav Rocca] probably our best offensive weapon and that’s not good.”

02-07-2010, 09:04 AM	#122
SmootSmack Mad Men Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 43,101	Re: Bradford/Clausen now split among Mock Drafts Bradford basically didn't practice after the second injury in mid-October against Texas, after BYU (save for a few days off) he was still practicing, albeit limited on some days. __________________ You're So Vain...You Probably Think This Sig Is About You

02-07-2010, 12:27 PM	#124
The Goat Pro Bowl Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 5,021	Re: Bradford/Clausen now split among Mock Drafts I just don't see Shanny and Allen drafting Bradford. 15 pounds of muscle isn't going to turn him into a rocket-arm like Elway or Cutler. I mean even healthy he doesn't seem like the guy...add the serious injury concerns and it just doesn't fit. __________________ Sometimes you eat the bear, and sometimes he eats you.

02-07-2010, 01:46 PM	#125
CultBrennan59 Pro Bowl Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 5,587	Re: Bradford/Clausen now split among Mock Drafts [QUOTE=30gut;661040]Look dude, i got nothing against Bradford. But people are starting to talk this dude up as some sort of can't miss prospect by downing the other QBs and the level of competition and system etc.. Bradford has many of the same flaws as the other QBs you mention. I'm not saying that OU running a QB friendly offense is a knock just that its in the same category as Texas, Florida, WVU etc. Also, how can you deny that OU runs a QB friendly offense when freshmen Landry Jones steps in after Bradfords injury and puts up some good numbers himself 3,198 yds 26 TDs.[/QUOTE] It's called getting good recruits, which Bob Stoops does year in and year out. No one had Paul Thompson as a great NFL QB when he was at OU a few years ago. __________________ When in doubt, go with the SEC

02-08-2010, 07:26 PM	#130
CultBrennan59 Pro Bowl Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 5,587	Re: Bradford/Clausen now split among Mock Drafts ^I'm still a little sketch on Berry, but I do think he is an upgrade over Horton/Landry. But not worth us taking with our first round pick __________________ When in doubt, go with the SEC

02-09-2010, 06:03 PM	#132
GridIron26 The Starter Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 1,544	Re: Bradford/Clausen now split among Mock Drafts Nice post, Dirtbag! Colts and Saints may have been smart with their O-line men.. Although, this is not something we can say about our Redskins FO.. Well, that might be until Allen and Shanahan came in.. But once again, they haven't started anything yet.. So, all we can do is either (1) assume that FO will continue the same trend that has been going on for years, which is not being smart with O-line.. (2) Or we have to wait until maybe two years later, to determine whether if Allen/Shanahan are being smart with O-line.. Given the both scenarios; I still think the smart move would be to draft Okung or trade down and draft a LT.. This move would help our offense a lot..

02-09-2010, 07:44 PM	#133
Dirtbag59 Naega jeil jal naga Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Atlanta, Georgia From: Silver Spring, Maryland Age: 27 Posts: 13,956	Re: Bradford/Clausen now split among Mock Drafts If we do go the "develop a prospect" route at QB I see Zac Robinson as a great fit. Apparently the rumor is that Shanahan would want someone who took a hit to their draft stock, but was originally projected much higher during preseason. Robinson has the zip on his throws to get the ball downfield, accurate, mobile, played under center, and he's played against strong competition. Personally I don't see the appeal in McCoy. His arm is way to weak, especially on throws like deep outs and he has a tendency to leave receivers high and dry. Maybe the Shanahan's, especially Kyle, will see something and take a flyer but personally I don't see it, in fact I think he's way to similar to Colt Brenan, who obviously is already on our roster. Pike doesn't have the worlds greatest production but his numbers are solid. He also has the type of build that reminds me of Matt Schuab. Still the lack of experience under center is a pretty big concern. LeFevoure is a personal favorite, given that he's a MAC QB with great numbers. __________________ Flacco is 1337 Fanclub President

02-09-2010, 10:03 PM	#134
GTripp0012 Living Legend Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Grand Rapids, MI Age: 25 Posts: 15,143	Re: Bradford/Clausen now split among Mock Drafts Saints drafted Jamaal Brown 13th overall in 2005. He didn't play at all this year, which supports the notion that the left tackle position is overvalued compared to the other positions on the OL, particularly RT. But the Saints got where they are by investing a first and a second round pick in tackles over the last seven drafts, but more directly, by digging up the very best lineman available in the middle rounds, at positions where the draft value system dictates that great players are available if you look in places like Bloomsburg, and Towson State. Even though the backup LT, Bushrod, was undrafted, the Saints didn't try to live off the middle rounds in the building of the OL. The fact that their interior line actually IS built of middle rounders, which it is, is possible in part because they were able to take college OTs and work them at a new position because they had already developed the two bookends. In essence, when we had an effective Samuels and Jansen for the forseeable future, the line was our strength. We chose to invest heavily in Randy Thomas back in 2003 because we were working with a crappy interior OL at the time, which was a fine start, and then Dockery and Rabach worked because they were functional pieces in a strong unit that hadn't been skimped on. Kendall, to an extent, was the same principle. But once the cornerstones of our line began to decline, those interior players were exposed. I don't think that's perfectly analogous to the Saints, because Nicks and Goodwin are strong players in their own right, certainly better than Rabach and Dockery, and helped solve the issue of having a replacement LT this year. But if the Saints OL success is sustainable, I'd imagine that Jamaal Brown is going to be a big part of it. __________________ Shanahan: “The bad thing is he's [Sav Rocca] probably our best offensive weapon and that’s not good.”

02-09-2010, 10:29 PM	#135
53Fan Pro Bowl Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Kill Devil Hills, N.C. Posts: 7,354	Re: Bradford/Clausen now split among Mock Drafts I must admit that as time goes by the thought of drafting Bradford does get me excited. I think he has what it takes to be a very, very good QB. But then with the annoucement of Russ Grimm going into the HOF, I think again of how much we need a good OL. I read somewhere about how amazing it is that JC's numbers went up playing behind possibly one of the worse OL's in history. With the Hogs, it really didn't matter that we didn't have a franchise QB. And behind the Hogs, even someone like Timmy Smith could run for over 200 yards in the Super Bowl. How much better would JC be, or one of our RB's be running behind a great o-line? It would be nice for the first time in a long time, to be strong in the trenches so we could really know how strong our skill positions really are. I'm so tired of our o-line sucking and our QB getting eaten alive. Maybe it's all the talk about the Hogs lately.....I just wish we could be strong up front once again instead of being a joke. __________________ "Cautiously And Optimistically... Looking Forward To Change"

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Bradford/Clausen now split among Mock Drafts

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