2011 NFL Draft

Terpfan76 · 04-03-2011, 04:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dirtbag59

Trent Williams will be 34 if everyone gets their way in regards to the QB positon.

2011: Oh we need a Nosetackle. Next years QB class will be better.

2012: A franchise Guard will be better then a QB. This isn't a good year to take a QB

2013: We need another Tackle.

2014: Defensive End for our 3-4. Don't worry though next years QB class will be better.

2015: Guys, we really need another first round Guard. Besides this years QB class stinks, next years will be better.

2016: Our Nosetackle is having health problems we need another one.

2017: We need a Tackle of the future. Trent is getting up their in age.

2018: I think we should take a blocking Tight End with our first pick. 4 sacks a year is to much. Our rookie QB will get killed if we take one. Besides it's a weak class. Next years will be better.

2019: We need another Nosetackle. Weak QB class, very weak

2020: I'd rather take a Defensive End. Okay, we'll splurge this year. We'll draft a developmental player in the 6th round to play QB.

2021: Ehhh, our star Guard left for free agency. We need another one, we need to protect the QB.

2022: Trent's to old, the team needs a star Left Tackle if we're going to protect this star rookie QB ya'll want. Besides NEXT YEARS CLASS WILL BE BETERRRRRRR HA HA AHAHAHA AHAHAHAAHAHAHAHA

Exaggerate much? lol Right now, I'd say Matt Barkley alone is a better qb prospect than anyone in this class. Hell, I'd almost go so far as to say that Danny O'Brien would be a better franchise qb candidate than any of these guys.
That being said, if one of the higher ranked qbs fell to us later in the draft then I wouldn't be that upset about taking one, but really none of the qbs that appear to be available at #10 really seem to be any better than a reach.
As for the comments about Flacco, really? The guy is in what, his fourth season? He's improved each year and you're saying you wouldn't want him? Your credibility just took a big hit.

skinster · 04-03-2011, 04:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by skinster

And Brady Quinn will be in his 30's the next time the browns make the playoffs. I'd much rather take someone we are confident in at another position then reaching for a qb and setting back our franchise again.

If we didn't draft Campbell we would have had picks in the 3rd/4th round. We would not have given up a 2nd and 6th rounder for Rocky (we would have drafted him in the 1st). Which also means we would have had an extra 2nd that year to draft with. The picks we lost on drafting Jason Campbell----- 2nd, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 6th. We also probably would not have made one of many trades (taylor (2nd, 6th), kendell (4th) , lloyd (3rd, 4th), Brown (3rd), McNabb (2nd, 4th)) or free agent misses (Haynesworth, Archuletta, Randle El) as a result of having those position needs already on our roster, which means we would have EVEN MORE HIGH PICKS. AND we possibly wouldn't waste our future picks on reaching for perceived need (3 recievers in 2008, Chad Rinehart, etc...) because we could have already had guys at those positions on the team. Maybe we could even have Drew Brees now, but we didn't go for him because Jason Campbell was our "future."

I'm not saying that all these things would have happened, but I do believe that the draft day trades would not have happened, at least a couple of our big trade misses would not have happened and at least one busted pick for perceived need would not have happened. I also believe we would for sure have outpaid New Orleans to get Drew Brees. He is tough as nails and I bet Joe Gibbs would have loved him.

Waiting for the right opportunity might be long an painful, but missing (and odds are you will miss if you reach) sets you back even further and makes the wait even longer and more painful.

For the record, the specific trades I believe would not have happened are Jason Taylor, Jamaal Brown, Donovan McNabb (because I do believe Brees would be on our roster....Brunell was 36 in 2006), Brandon Lloyd (because we would not have the cap from Drew Brees). I also think we would not have signed Haynesworth in desperation for Vinny to save his job, or Adam Archuletta (or Andre Carter) because that cap space would have been distributed to Drew Brees. And I do not think we would have drafted Malcolm Kelly or Chad Rinehart (I don't think we would have traded our 1st/3rd for 2 2nds, but I think we probably still would have drafted Devin Thomas with the 1st...so that's a 3rd not a 2nd we'd have back to pick someone else).

I do think this is all realistic. And by my tally the change of our team would be extra 2nd, 2nd, 2nd, 2nd, 3rd, 3rd, 3rd, 3rd, 3rd, 4th, 4th, 4th, 6th, 6th, Drew Brees, and we would have had signed a different free agent than Haynesworth.

Even if you don't see it as I see it, there is no way you can't see that reaching for ANY perceived need (especially by trading for it, and especially a QB) sets your team back ALOT.

Lotus · 04-03-2011, 04:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dirtbag59

Trent Williams will be 34 if everyone gets their way in regards to the QB positon.

2011: Oh we need a Nosetackle. Next years QB class will be better.

2012: A franchise Guard will be better then a QB. This isn't a good year to take a QB

2013: We need another Tackle.

2014: Defensive End for our 3-4. Don't worry though next years QB class will be better.

2015: Guys, we really need another first round Guard. Besides this years QB class stinks, next years will be better.

2016: Our Nosetackle is having health problems we need another one.

2017: We need a Tackle of the future. Trent is getting up their in age.

2018: I think we should take a blocking Tight End with our first pick. 4 sacks a year is to much. Our rookie QB will get killed if we take one. Besides it's a weak class. Next years will be better.

2019: We need another Nosetackle. Weak QB class, very weak

2020: I'd rather take a Defensive End. Okay, we'll splurge this year. We'll draft a developmental player in the 6th round to play QB.

2021: Ehhh, our star Guard left for free agency. We need another one, we need to protect the QB.

2022: Trent's to old, the team needs a star Left Tackle if we're going to protect this star rookie QB ya'll want. Besides NEXT YEARS CLASS WILL BE BETERRRRRRR HA HA AHAHAHA AHAHAHAAHAHAHAHA

Well then, Mr. We-need-a-QB, what is your plan for the QB position?

Slingin Sammy 33 · 04-03-2011, 05:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by skinster

And Brady Quinn will be in his 30's the next time the browns make the playoffs. I'd much rather take someone we are confident in at another position then reaching for a qb and setting back our franchise again.

Waiting for the right opportunity might be long an painful, but missing (and odds are you will miss if you reach) sets you back even further and makes the wait even longer and more painful.

Better-est post ever.

Ruhskins · 04-03-2011, 05:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dirtbag59

Trent Williams will be 34 if everyone gets their way in regards to the QB positon.

2011: Oh we need a Nosetackle. Next years QB class will be better.

2012: A franchise Guard will be better then a QB. This isn't a good year to take a QB

2013: We need another Tackle.

2014: Defensive End for our 3-4. Don't worry though next years QB class will be better.

2015: Guys, we really need another first round Guard. Besides this years QB class stinks, next years will be better.

2016: Our Nosetackle is having health problems we need another one.

2017: We need a Tackle of the future. Trent is getting up their in age.

2018: I think we should take a blocking Tight End with our first pick. 4 sacks a year is to much. Our rookie QB will get killed if we take one. Besides it's a weak class. Next years will be better.

2019: We need another Nosetackle. Weak QB class, very weak

2020: I'd rather take a Defensive End. Okay, we'll splurge this year. We'll draft a developmental player in the 6th round to play QB.

2021: Ehhh, our star Guard left for free agency. We need another one, we need to protect the QB.

2022: Trent's to old, the team needs a star Left Tackle if we're going to protect this star rookie QB ya'll want. Besides NEXT YEARS CLASS WILL BE BETERRRRRRR HA HA AHAHAHA AHAHAHAAHAHAHAHA

Who the hell drafts a guard or a blocking tight end with their first round pick?

skinster · 04-03-2011, 05:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lotus

Huh?

Flacco's numbers have improved every year: Qb rating, YPA, TD/int ratio, etc. Last year:
93.6 rating, 3,622 yards, 7.4 YPA, 25 TD, 10 int

Flacco does not have the gaudy yardage totals of others but he does not throw as much, either.

Campbell has never put up numbers like that. And Flacco is just beginning to enter his prime.

I'd be happy if we had Flacco under center.

Flacco was 20th in passing yards. With the exception of when he played the weakest team in the afc playoffs (chiefs) where he threw for 256 yards, he has a career high 189 yards passing in his 6 other playoff games he has played in. He threw for 125 yards in the divisional playoffs this year (1 td (from ravens a turnover), 2 turnovers). He threw for only 34 yards (0 tds 1 turnover) in the wild card game last year. He threw for 189 yards (0 tds, 2 turnovers) in last years divisional playoffs, he threw for 135 yards (0 td, 0 tunrovers) two years ago in the wildcard game, he threw for 161 yards 2 years ago (1 td, 0 turnovers) in the divisional playoffs, but then he threw for 141 yards (0 tds, 3 turnovers) in the conference game. Over these 6 games he averaged roughly 130 yards per game and has 2 tds with 10 turnovers (9 of them interceptions).

He also leads the league (by alot) in sacks after holding the ball for more than 3 seconds. Chalk these numbers up to whatever you want, but I chalk them up to Flacco not being cut from quality material.

Dirtbag59 · 04-03-2011, 05:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ruhskins

Who the hell drafts a guard or a blocking tight end with their first round pick?

Quarterback Time Haters. They build walls of Jericho around trailer parks.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lotus

Well then, Mr. We-need-a-QB, what is your plan for the QB position?

Theres as many as 8 quality prospects to pick from, 6 of which will be available to us. Your telling me we can't draft any of them? Rather we should wait and press our luck that the currently unprecedented 3 year run of quality QB drafts will continue for a 5th year in 2012 (which it might but we're not getting Luck)? There is a QB out there that fits our system, weather it's a guy at pick 10 or pick 41.

Sorry if I'm not as confident in Rex Grossman as the rest of you, but there needs to be a viable plan B for the games most important position.

skinster · 04-03-2011, 05:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dirtbag59

Quarterback Time Haters. They build walls of Jericho around trailer parks.

Theres as many as 8 quality prospects to pick from, 6 of which will be available to us. Your telling me we can't draft any of them? Rather we should wait and press our luck that the currently unprecedented 3 year run of quality QB drafts will continue for a 5th year in 2012 (which it might but we're not getting Luck)? There is a QB out there that fits our system, weather it's a guy at pick 10 or pick 41.

Are you really saying that there are 8 quality qbs this year? Lets cut that in half and say that there is an average of 4 a year. Every team would have their franchise qb on their roster right now. When you look at the numbers, there is less than one franchise qb a year that has been drafted in the 1st 2 rounds over the last 10 years (unless you count Kolb, there have been none in the 2nd). I'd even say there are less than one per year that have been drafted at all in the last 10 years, but I know I'd stand pretty much alone in that argument.

Dirtbag59 · 04-03-2011, 05:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by skinster

Are you really saying that there are 8 quality qbs this year? Lets cut that in half and say that there is an average of 4 a year. Every team would have their franchise qb on their roster right now. When you look at the numbers, there is less than one franchise qb a year that has been drafted in the 1st 2 rounds over the last 10 years (unless you count Kolb, there have been none in the 2nd). I'd even say there are less than one per year that have been drafted at all in the last 10 years, but I know I'd stand pretty much alone in that argument.

Ponder, Locker, Dalton, and Kaepernick (possibly Stanzi as well) are all QB's that are capable of being coached up by the Shanahans. All 4 are also mobile and capable of protecting the O-Line.

Still I think that people here should seriously prepare for this team drafting Locker as early as 10. Raw talent seems to matter the most to Shanahan and only Newton has more raw talent then Locker. The difference is Locker has been pegged as fitting Shanahan's system and we've already heard how much he likes him.

To put it simply Locker is the Trent Williams of the QB position. And I believe, gun to my head and I have to be right that for better or worse Locker will be drafted by the Redskins, and it's very possible that unless they can trade back that it will happen with the 10th pick.

Also the last 10 years doesn't matter. What does matter is the fact that we're looking at the 4th year of an amazing 3 year run of QB drafts. All classes that were deemed weak by this board on draft day. Also keep in mind that it takes 2 to 3 years to develop a QB. 1st and 2nd round lineman on the other hand are routinely developing in half a year, some as early as opening day. At most it's 2 years and thats in rare cases.

Lotus · 04-03-2011, 05:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dirtbag59

Theres as many as 8 quality prospects to pick from, 6 of which will be available to us. Your telling me we can't draft any of them? Rather we should wait and press our luck that the currently unprecedented 3 year run of quality QB drafts will continue for a 5th year in 2012 (which it might but we're not getting Luck)? There is a QB out there that fits our system, weather it's a guy at pick 10 or pick 41.

Sorry if I'm not as confident in Rex Grossman as the rest of you, but there needs to be a viable plan B for the games most important position.

My friend, you did not answer my question. Please be specific. Let's hear a clear plan.

I say Ponder in the second. What say you?

Dirtbag59 · 04-03-2011, 06:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lotus

My friend, you did not answer my question. Please be specific. Let's hear a clear plan.

I say Ponder in the second. What say you?

I invoke the go with God defense as well as my right against self incrimination. Basically whoever Shanahan picks I will support and believe in because I believe that in spite of the McNabb fiasco the Shanahans still know how to find and develop QB's.

At the moment I'm trying to like Locker but he scares me. I personally would probably go with Dalton or Ponder in the second, which would be easier if I could learn specifics about Dalton. However as I've been saying over the past hour I think that the Skins are going to use a first round pick on Locker.

I think that right now their Plan A is to trade down into the late teens and pick up a third round pick and draft Locker. Plan B will be to take Locker at 10. Remember Shanahan was the the guy that took Cutler at 11, so I personally believe he won't have any problem taking him at 10 if he thinks that what it'll take to get him.

Of course all of this is speculation on my part and only based on what I've heard about Lockers skillset, Shanahan being reported as highly interested in Locker, and the word of a Skins beat reporter for the Examiner that heard the Redskins will find a way to get Locker.

Lotus · 04-03-2011, 06:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by skinster

Flacco was 20th in passing yards. With the exception of when he played the weakest team in the afc playoffs (chiefs) where he threw for 256 yards, he has a career high 189 yards passing in his 6 other playoff games he has played in. He threw for 125 yards in the divisional playoffs this year (1 td (from ravens a turnover), 2 turnovers). He threw for only 34 yards (0 tds 1 turnover) in the wild card game last year. He threw for 189 yards (0 tds, 2 turnovers) in last years divisional playoffs, he threw for 135 yards (0 td, 0 tunrovers) two years ago in the wildcard game, he threw for 161 yards 2 years ago (1 td, 0 turnovers) in the divisional playoffs, but then he threw for 141 yards (0 tds, 3 turnovers) in the conference game. Over these 6 games he averaged roughly 130 yards per game and has 2 tds with 10 turnovers (9 of them interceptions).

He also leads the league (by alot) in sacks after holding the ball for more than 3 seconds. Chalk these numbers up to whatever you want, but I chalk them up to Flacco not being cut from quality material.

The notion that Flacco does not throw for a ton of yards because he plays in an offense which does not throw much has already been addressed. You are penalizing him for his offensive system.

Besides, NFL.com has him 11th in passing yards last year, not 20th as you claim. He was 9th in yards per attempt, which is a much fairer basis for comparison.

Last year he had a higher YPA and better TD/Int ratio than Peyton Manning.

And he is young. He has his best years ahead of him.

Lotus · 04-03-2011, 06:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dirtbag59

I invoke the go with God defense as well as my right against self incrimination. Basically whoever Shanahan picks I will support and believe in because I believe that in spite of the McNabb fiasco the Shanahans still know how to find and develop QB's.

At the moment I'm trying to like Locker but he scares me. I personally would probably go with Dalton or Ponder in the second, which would be easier if I could learn specifics about Dalton. However as I've been saying over the past hour I think that the Skins are going to use a first round pick on Locker.

I think that right now their Plan A is to trade down into the late teens and pick up a third round pick and draft Locker. Plan B will be to take Locker at 10. Remember Shanahan was the the guy that took Cutler at 11, so I personally believe he won't have any problem taking him at 10 if he thinks that what it'll take to get him.

Fair enough. I pray that you are wrong about Locker - not because we'd be drafting him but because #10 is way too high.

Dirtbag59 · 04-03-2011, 06:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lotus

Fair enough. I pray that you are wrong about Locker - not because we'd be drafting him but because #10 is way too high.

I do to, if my notion is right then I hope that it's done through a trade down. At least that way they can add two players in the trenches in the first 3 rounds with that extra pick.

I'd also add that I think that the elder Shanahan views Locker as a McNabb clone. However the main difference is that Locker will be more open to what Shanahan wants in terms of coaching and running the system then McNabb and as a result will succeed.

skinster · 04-03-2011, 06:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dirtbag59

Ponder, Locker, Dalton, and Kaepernick (possibly Stanzi as well) are all QB's that are capable of being coached up by the Shanahans. All 4 are also mobile and capable of protecting the O-Line.

Still I think that people here should seriously prepare for this team drafting Locker as early as 10. Raw talent seems to matter the most to Shanahan and only Newton has more raw talent then Locker. The difference is Locker has been pegged as fitting Shanahan's system and we've already heard how much he likes him.

To put it simply Locker is the Trent Williams of the QB position. And I believe, gun to my head and I have to be right that for better or worse Locker will be drafted by the Redskins, and it's very possible that unless they can trade back that it will happen with the 10th pick.

Also the last 10 years doesn't matter. What does matter is the fact that we're looking at the 4th year of an amazing 3 year run of QB drafts. All classes that were deemed weak by this board on draft day.

Jimmy Clausen, Pat White, Chad Henne, Brian Brohm, Kevin Kolb, John Beck, Drew Stanton, Kellen Clemens, and Travaris Jackson are all the 2nd round prospects that "were able to be coached up" over the last 10 years.

There is a difference between "this can be our guy" and "this will be our guy." I'm not saying that we should not draft a qb, I'm just saying that we better damn well be sure it WILL be our guy.
There is a zero percent chance more than one of the guys you just mentioned would make it as our franchise qb. Every year people make the same statements you are making about potential, and every year they are wrong. Look to the past to predict the future. You can rationalize your opinions as much as you want, but it is a fact that your opinions on this subject are wrong as been proven by history (you see what I did there

).

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2011 NFL Draft

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