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ESPN Say's Newton To Enter Draft

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Old 02-24-2011, 09:10 AM   #211
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Re: ESPN Say's Newton To Enter Draft

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Old 02-24-2011, 02:45 PM   #212
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Re: ESPN Say's Newton To Enter Draft

2011 NFL Mock Draft: Complete 1st Round With Pick-By-Pick Analysis | Bleacher Report
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Old 02-24-2011, 02:48 PM   #213
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Re: ESPN Say's Newton To Enter Draft

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dirtbag359 View Post
---------------------------
On a slightly different subject, I have new peanut gallery notes on Locker and Gabbert.

In watching Locker recently there were a few more specific things that bothered me. For starters he looks to run an awful lot when things break down. Ideally you'd want a guy that would use that mobility to reposition himself and find someone downfield while picking up a first down or two with their feet. But very rarely am I seeing Locker look down the field for other options. In fact he rarely seems to look down field to begin with opting for mostly short passes (all the more reason to be worried over his subpar completion percentage). Had trouble noticing if he was looking for separate options on the other side of the field

Gabbert on the other hand surprised me. On the field he was the exact opposite of my concerns with Locker. While not as mobile Gabbert is certainly capable of moving about. And not only does he move around but when he can he takes a moment to reposition his feet. He's also not afraid to take shots downfield and is confident in his arm. Most impressive part of his game might have been his ability to look off coverage and find second and third options.

The Performance itself is not all to impressive. However while watching Gabbert it's easy to catch the little things he's incorporated into his game. Remember to look for readjusting after scrambles, willingness to take shots downfield, and the ability to look off defenders. Still can't get over the fact that his numbers, while respectable, are no where near Chase Daniel.


Locker on the other hand reminds me of a kid playing with a Mobile QB on all Madden. All to frequently he seems to zone in one guy and rarely looks downfield opting for throwing short to mid range passes when he's not scrambling for yards. Maybe his supporting cast was just that bad but Steve Sarkisian is a respected offensive mind so it's not like he was in some po dunk SEC 3 yards and a cloud of dust Wing T system.



Dude has all the tools and played in a Pro style offense, Yeah he scrambles to much but Shanny will fix that problem IMO. His accuracy isn't as bad as some think either. Is he Brees? No but he's not Jason Campbell either
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Old 02-24-2011, 03:00 PM   #214
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Re: ESPN Say's Newton To Enter Draft

I think that both Locker and Gabbert are good QB prospects.
I've watched several of both of there games and w/ a coaching buddy of mine have charted some of their games.
I've actuall charted Gabbert's game vs Illinois and although he was very productive I think disagree w/ assessment and think you choose the wrong games to prove your points.

BTW-Locker was outstanding in the Oregeon State game:
5 TDs 1 INT w/ 60 yds rushing in a 35-34 overtime win.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dirtbag359 View Post
---------------------------
In watching Locker recently there were a few more specific things that bothered me. For starters he looks to run an awful lot when things break down. Ideally you'd want a guy that would use that mobility to reposition himself and find someone downfield while picking up a first down or two with their feet. But very rarely am I seeing Locker look down the field for other options......In fact he rarely seems to look down field to begin with opting for mostly short passes (all the more reason to be worried over his subpar completion percentage).**Had trouble noticing if he was looking for separate options on the other side of the field
If we're gonna attempt to talk specifics, which plays are you refering to?

Of the 2 QBs i thought Locker handled a crumbling pocket better then Gabbert.

In general I think that both through a mix of their preference and offensives systems greatly favor their 1st reads(which is common for college QBs)
and both offenses favor short routes as evidenced by the fact that both have sub 7.0 YPA.
Locker's offense by design is about 60/40 mix of 1 step or quick 3-step and get the ball out quickly from a pro-set and roll out, sprint out, dash outside the pocket stuff.
Gabberts is a shotgun spread with mainly half-field but some full field reads.
Imo Gabberts offense lends itself more easily to making multiple progression reads because there are more options per play.
**The graininess of the Oregon State game makes it harder to read Locker's helmet direction.


Quote:
In fact he rarely seems to look down field to begin with opting for mostly short passes (all the more reason to be worried over his subpar completion percentage).
Actually I think its the other way around its spread offenses lend themselves to a more a high comp% then pro-style offenses.

Quote:
Gabbert on the other hand surprised me. On the field he was the exact opposite of my concerns with Locker. While not as mobile Gabbert is certainly capable of moving about. And not only does he move around but when he can he takes a moment to reposition his feet. He's also not afraid to take shots downfield and is confident in his arm. Most impressive part of his game might have been his ability to look off coverage and find second and third options.
I didn't see this at all.(I'll post my passing chart and game assessment)

Quote:
Still can't get over the fact that his numbers, while respectable, are no where near Chase Daniel.
That's because you're ignoring the reasons that contribute make his numbers lesser then Chases; although part of the difference is WR talent.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------


Quote:
Originally Posted by darrelgreenie View Post
I've simplified my format.
KEY:

OT: (+/-)on time/in rhythm
TAR- (+/-) on target catchable ball (above the waist not above the shoulders within arm's length)
IS- (+/-) in stride

**Good plays/NFL ability
Sienna color negative plays

Any pertinent information will be metioned-

[video=youtube;Q5nGYHLeB2g]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q5nGYHLeB2g[/video]

1) OT- TAR- probably a missed read
2) Screen OT+ TAR+ IS+
3) Scamble TAR-
4) Screen OT+ TAR+ IS+
5) 1st read covered looking leftside stayed w/ too long and didn't see the open slot slant Scramble
high throw OT- TAR- (a bit high) @48s

6) (R) sideline cover 2 beater fade route nice throw into small window OT+ TAR+ IS+ @ 1:06
7) Screen OT+ TAR+
8) Zone read keeper tried to cutback, not a natural runner
9) Zone read QB keeper shows willingness to run w/ toughness FUMBLE! 1:38s
10) Slot out (L) OT+ TAR+ a little shoulder level 2:04
11) Slot comeback (L) OT+ TAR+ tight window good throw 2:22
12) Missed flare out (R) --->scramble OT+ TAR- underthrown 2:27
13) Slot out OT+ TAR+
14) Hot route blitz beater OT+ TAR+ IS+ 3:06
15) Quick In OT+ TAR+
16) Slot out (handles bad snap) OT+ TAR+ a little high 3:27
17) batted ball
18) Quick pressure starts to scramble finds RB in flat OT+ TAR+ IS+ 3:59
19) TE hitch OT+ TAR+
20) Slot hitch OT+ TAR+
21) WR slant-dig OT+ TAR+ nice throw 4:36
22) batted ball
**23) Near slot (R) pump middle slot post OT+ TAR+ IS+ dropped great throw
24) Scrambled, held ball should have thrown it away
25) Slot slant OT+ TAR+ IS+ 5:30
26) Slot swing pass OT+ TAR+ IS+
27) Slot screen 5:25
28) Slot (L) comeback OT+ TAR+ a little high
29) Quick hitch (L) OT+ TAR+
30) Sprint (R) turns down quick slant to middle slot, throws back of the endzone OT+ TAR- 6:32
31) Swing (R) OT+ TAR+ IS+
**32) Looked like he had slot (R) open on slant instead scrambles keeps head up fires a strike on the run to the back of the endzone--started heating up after this TD
**33) Turned down slot out (L) resets throws across the field to far sideline comeback w/ a good strong throw OT+ TAR+ dropped
**34) Everyone looks covered scramble. finds TE corner another nice throw OT+ TAR+ IS+ 7:3
35) Skinny post/deep slant (R) OT+ TAR+ IS+ 8:00
36) Swing pass OT+ TAR+ IS+
37) Swing " "
38) PA zone read WR fly/go (R) w/ bodies around make deep sideline throw from the 55 to the 1 yard line OT+ TAR- (i thought it was mis-played/judged a good WR makes that grab
39) TE Slant (R) OT+ TAR+ a little behind 8:48
40) Near slot square in OT+ TAR+ IS+ 9:00
**41) Looks (R) scrambles (L) hits sideline comeback OT+ TAR+ IS+ nice throw 9:09
42) lot hitch (L) OT+ TAR+ a little high 9:22
43) QB draw picks up yards but not a natural runner
44) Fake WR screen middle slot fade OT+ TAR+ IS+ TD!!
45) Slot out (L) OT+ TAR+ IS+
46) RB screen (L) OT+ TAR- IS- underthrown short incomplete
**47) Deep comeback sideline nice throw OT+ TAR+ IS+ 10:22

**48) Looks (L) scrambles resets throws deep post (R) OT+ TAR+ a little high IS+ dropped 10:32
49) Swing
50) Had time scrambled around, found receiver in middle of field heaved it up -caught- but OT- TAR+ a little high 11:00
51) Missed/turned down near slot hitch (R) goes for middle slot go route OT- TAR- IS- 11:17
52) Wide slant hitch (L) OT+ TAR+
53) Scramble throw away
**54) Slot out very tight window OT+ TAR+ big hit forced drop 11:56
55) Pinkel's version of a kneel? Gabbert scrambles around then goes down
-
Quote:
Originally Posted by darrelgreenie-January-25th-2011 View Post
From the passing chart in post #63

Missed pass incomplete: 1,30,(38),46
Scramble/on the move incomplete: 3,5,7,12
Caught passes that were off target (keep in mind these are caught passes) 28, 42, 50
Drops/(receiver misplay/effort): 23,33,(38),48, 54
Throw away: 53
By my count that's 11 off targets pass, 3 that were still completed from a sample of 48 passes
**Even if you include the caught passes that were off target that would only make 16% of his pass attempts off target

my grade for the game:
Instincts+Intuition-2 (got off to a slow start and had some early happy feet)
Competitiveness-4 (came back from being down the entire gameplan was based on his right arm)
Arm Strength-5 (self evident)
Complete Inventory of passes-4
Quick delivery-4
Touch-3 (missed a few throws)
Read defense-2 (mainly half field read offense, but graded down for the happy feet)
Mobility+Avoidance-3 (made some good plays, but often scrambled needlessly)
Function while injured- N/A (?) may have been playing hurt?
Not easily rattled-3 (graded down for happy feet)
Spontaneous decision/play making-3 (nice play in the endzone helped bump him up to 3)
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Old 02-24-2011, 03:51 PM   #215
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Re: ESPN Say's Newton To Enter Draft

Anyone of the QB's who are middle of the road or have dropped down to middle of the road (ie; Locker) then there is nothing but up side. QB's who were middle of the pack ( and I'm only counting like the top 5-7 like everyone else is doind) starting out and quite possibly will be the top QB this year (Newton) have a lot to lose. I remember everyone saying right after the bowl games that Locker was the top man and that teams had a lot to lose possibly drafting him, however Newton was flying under the weather and had a lot of upside. After the Senior Bowl the rolls reversed.

Whoever gets evaluated as the top prospect and possibly #2 and #3 could be drafted prior to the Skins at #10. Last night on the NFL network they were debating whether the Panthers would or should go after a QB.... half the announcers said they should the other said no go defense. Almost everyone is agreeing that the Bills will probably take a QB. Rumor is they are eyeing Newton. I'd presume him to be gone by the time the Skins pick. But the Bills are not the only team that might be looking for a QB either.... what about:

Bills- drastically need a QB.
Cinci- Palmer has requested to be traded.
Arizona- They have two mediocre QB's, could they look for someone better?
49ers- were not happy last yr at QB.
Titans- Will need a replacement for Young.
Skins-

I'm not saying they all will pick QB's, but I'd be supprised if a team doesn't take the top rated QB prior to the Skins pick. Maybe even the top two picks. I can see atleast Newton being gone(by the Bills) and Locker, Gabbert, and or Mallet. I'll agree most likely they all won't be gone. but I just find it funny how people are ..." hey we need to take Newton" or " hey we need to take Locker" when in reality we might not have a chance to get either unless we move up to get them which I'm against.

I'd rather (if at all possible) find a trade partner to trade back to get more picks (somewhere around the 20's) and take either Ponder in the second or Dalton. Pick up another second due to the trade and pick up either DL, OL, or WR if they are not making a run at FA WR's.

I'd also be very suprised if whoever we pick at QB was the starter next yr. McNabb couldn't pick up all of the offense and he's a Pro Bowl QB. More then likely Grossman starts while the Rookie learns the plays. Unless we keep McNabb and hope he learns more of the offense and decides to get his head out of his back side with his 2 min. clock management.
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Old 02-24-2011, 03:51 PM   #216
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Re: ESPN Say's Newton To Enter Draft

I have to also disagree with dirtbag's assessment of Gabbert's mobility and use of it. Watching that film, I didn't feel that he handles pressure well, but I feel the same about Locker and Newton.

I don't know if they learn that skillset once they get to the NFL, but from the little film that I've watched most times all 3 seem to tuck tail and run when they feel pressure.
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Old 02-24-2011, 04:05 PM   #217
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Re: ESPN Say's Newton To Enter Draft

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I have to also disagree with dirtbag's assessment of Gabbert's mobility and use of it. Watching that film, I didn't feel that he handles pressure well, but I feel the same about Locker and Newton.

I don't know if they learn that skillset once they get to the NFL, but from the little film that I've watched most times all 3 seem to tuck tail and run when they feel pressure.
I think it also depends on the scheme the team is running as to which QB would be best. The Skins really need a pocket passer, but one who has the ability to roll out or scramble if need be. The QB needs to have a strong accurate arm to get the ball down field to the receivers, but also be able to dump the ball off if nothing is available.

Newton and the QB from Virginia Tech strike me as QB's to be used on a team that utilizes the Wild Cat. Both didn't look comfortable in the pocket and didn't look to let plays develope before they took off on foot. Locker kinda had the same issues in regards to just taking off with the ball. Now some here will say thats why we need them cause our OL sucks and they will get the 1st down. I'm telling you the OL will be better this year and they won't need to run as much. I'd rather have a QB who is comfortable in the pocket and has pocket awareness. I've also heard Locker is not as accurate as the others and that most mechanics can be taught but accuracy is one the QB has to have.
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Old 02-24-2011, 11:10 PM   #218
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Re: ESPN Say's Newton To Enter Draft

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Originally Posted by warriorzpath View Post
I have to also disagree with dirtbag's assessment of Gabbert's mobility and use of it. Watching that film, I didn't feel that he handles pressure well, but I feel the same about Locker and Newton.

I don't know if they learn that skillset once they get to the NFL, but from the little film that I've watched most times all 3 seem to tuck tail and run when they feel pressure.
I've seen Gabbert play quite a bit and dude is great..... When he stands all day BUT once that pocket caves he makes horrible decisions and isn't very accurate deep down field, has a good upside because he has a big arm but so does Mallett. I'm sticking with my guns And saying Locker will be the best QB of this draft.. Dalton is the sleeper QB with Ponder
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Old 02-25-2011, 01:16 AM   #219
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Re: ESPN Say's Newton To Enter Draft

Jaime Dukes on NFL Network said something I agree about Cam Newton today, Cam needs to go to a coaching staff that is willing to alter their system to Cam's strengths. Otherwise Cam is a project. If his new team does this he might be a decent day one starter. But if they do not it will take a year or two or he might never be a great player in the NFL.
Since the Shanahan's have shown they are about as flexible as Moammar Gadhafi, in changing their system for others, Washington is not the place for Cam Newton.
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Old 02-25-2011, 09:27 AM   #220
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Re: ESPN Say's Newton To Enter Draft

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Jaime Dukes on NFL Network said something I agree about Cam Newton today, Cam needs to go to a coaching staff that is willing to alter their system to Cam's strengths. Otherwise Cam is a project. If his new team does this he might be a decent day one starter. But if they do not it will take a year or two or he might never be a great player in the NFL.
Since the Shanahan's have shown they are about as flexible as Moammar Gadhafi, in changing their system for others, Washington is not the place for Cam Newton.
that's a good point, but at the same time could be applicable to any no. of qb's every year. No matter how flexible the coaching staff, Cam will still have to deal w/a steep learning curve. Just as much or more so as coaching to the qb's strengths, being on a good team is what allows rookie qb's to play well, like Big Ben, Flacco & Ryan. It's unlikely he'll be on a good team though.
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Old 02-25-2011, 09:48 AM   #221
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Re: ESPN Say's Newton To Enter Draft

Jerry Jones creating a bit of a buzz with Cam Newton

Cowboys plan to meet Cam Newton | Dallas Cowboys | Latest news and video on the Dallas Cowboy...
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Old 02-25-2011, 10:13 AM   #222
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Re: ESPN Say's Newton To Enter Draft

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Originally Posted by Defensewins View Post
Jaime Dukes on NFL Network said something I agree about Cam Newton today, Cam needs to go to a coaching staff that is willing to alter their system to Cam's strengths. Otherwise Cam is a project. If his new team does this he might be a decent day one starter. But if they do not it will take a year or two or he might never be a great player in the NFL.
Since the Shanahan's have shown they are about as flexible as Moammar Gadhafi, in changing their system for others, Washington is not the place for Cam Newton.
Keep him away from Kyle.
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Old 02-25-2011, 10:17 AM   #223
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Re: ESPN Say's Newton To Enter Draft

Dallas has been high on cam for a while now, romo isn't getting any younger so it kind of makes sense to draft him and sit for a year or 2. I've also heard they really like Ryan Mallett
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Old 02-25-2011, 10:48 AM   #224
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Re: ESPN Say's Newton To Enter Draft

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If the Cowgirls get Cam, it will bite us in the ass twice a year!
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Old 02-25-2011, 11:06 AM   #225
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Re: ESPN Say's Newton To Enter Draft

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I've seen Gabbert play quite a bit and dude is great..... When he stands all day BUT once that pocket caves he makes horrible decisions and isn't very accurate deep down field, has a good upside because he has a big arm but so does Mallett. I'm sticking with my guns And saying Locker will be the best QB of this draft.. Dalton is the sleeper QB with Ponder
I really don't see what everyone else sees in Jake Locker.
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