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ESPN Say's Newton To Enter Draft

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Old 02-26-2011, 12:31 AM   #256
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Re: ESPN Say's Newton To Enter Draft

Quote:
Originally Posted by skinsfaninok View Post
He was pretty good at UW, is he still a little raw? Yes no doubt but if you think any other QB in this draft is ready to play next year, you are mistaken. Let me ask you this my man, you say Gabbert? What has he done that Locker hasn't? Thats right Nothing, so we are in the same boat my friend just different opinions. Btw I would take Green or Miller at 10 also, BUT they won't be there. How bout we go after Matt Flynn or Kyle Orton?





Jake Locker, Washington, NFL Draft - DraftCountdown.com


pretty good assessment of Locker
Gabbert to me is a MUCH better prospect than Locker. Is there a chance Locker can be a stud? Yes but I think there is a much better chance he ends up as Alex Smith rather than Aaron Rodgers just to compare two QBs from the same draft.
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Old 02-26-2011, 01:07 AM   #257
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Re: ESPN Say's Newton To Enter Draft

I figured since I posted a game breakdown of Gabbert that I should at least post one about the player in the OP:

Quote:
Originally Posted by darrelgreenie View Post
Anyway from watching this game specifically:


These are the plays that stood out to me. (Many of them are time marked so you can jump to those specific plays)

1) Shotgun Play Action then Pump Fake WR screen left-(plenty of time in a clean pocket) then hits the right side WR on a deep Slant-Seam route. OT+ TAR+ IS+ from Auburn's 15 yd line to USC's 25 yard a 40+ yard through w/ ease good footwork nice release

3) Shotgun escapes sack starts to scramble up the middle with his eyes downfield spots the RB and makes a nifty shovel pass flick to the RB:50s

4) Shotgun 2 step drop clean footwork throws in rhythm sideline hitch left OT+ TAR+ IS+ quick release ball got there in a hurry

5) Shotgun takes off jukes the hell out of the spy gains 14+ yards gets down to avoid hit-great run

8) Shotgun PA half roll out- pressure in the face- makes nice touch pass on TE drag left to right OT+ TAR+ IS+ 2:24s

9) Shotgun Pump n Go right sideline vs all out blitz picked up beautifully- delivers OT+ TAR+ IS+
to wide open Darvin Adams TD!
...from Auburn 35 to their 30 about a 40 yard throw on a line w/ late pressure closing in 2:37s

**10) Shotgun drop backs hits left WR on a 12 yd comeback OT+ TAR+ IS+ ball got there in a hurry

15) Shotgun-dash right no pressure keeps eyes downfield, pressure comes throws a shuffle/scramble throws goofy foot fading away arm pass OT+ OT- IS- 3:13s

18) Shotgun dash right from their 45 to the 3 yards deep in the endzone steps into uncorks it looks like he had plenty of arm left (50+ yard throw) TD

21) Shotgun PA feels and avoids pressure scrambles effortlessly to his left for a 20 yard gain (this run was Randall Cunninghamesque)


**22) (Plenty of time/clean pocket) Shotgun straight drop back-maintains good helmet discipline down the center of the field until the last second when he looks/pivots left and hits a WR that beat the CB on and out and up and Cam beat the Safety w/ the good eye discipline and throw (from the 50 to the 10 40 yd throw w/ ease) OT+ TAR+ IS+ 4:22s

24) Shotgun zone read keeper runs left full speed jump-cut to pick up the 1st down nice play -gifted open field runner 5:38

25) Shotgun Pump & Go (clean pocket) slot wheel route right steps up throws OT+ TAR+ IS+



----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote:
Originally Posted by darrelgreenie View Post
The FIRST game we'll look at for Cam Newton is the SEC Championship Game v South Carolina available here:
Heisman Hopeful Cameron Newton Season Highlights (vids)

**We couldn't fine a true game cut-up the above clip has all of Newton's completion instead of all Newton's passes.

Part I

Passing Chart:

KEY:
OT: (+/-)on time/in rhythm
TAR- (+/-) on target catchable ball (above the waist not above the shoulders within arm's length)
IS- (+/-) in stride
**Good plays/NFL ability in Bolded in Orange
Sienna color negative plays

1) Shotgun Play Action then Pump Fake WR screen left-(plenty of time in a clean pocket) then hits the right side WR on a deep Slant-Seam route. OT+ TAR+ IS+ from Auburn's 15 yd line to USC's 25 yard a 40+ yard through w/ ease good footwork nice release

2) Shotgun-has all day stays in the pocket reads through his progressions shuffles left keeps his eyes down field and throws on the run goofy footed/fading back arm throw but OT+ TAR+ IS n/a

3) Shotgun escapes sack starts to scramble up the middle with his eyes downfield spots the RB and makes a nifty shovel pass flick to the RB:50s

4) Shotgun 2 step drop clean footwork throws in rhythm sideline hitch left OT+ TAR+ IS+ quick release ball got there in a hurry

5) Shotgun takes off jukes the hell out of the spy gains 14+ yards gets down to avoid hit-great run

6) Shotgun PA-evades sack scrambles right keeps eyes upfield hits 10 sideline pass OT+ TAR+ IS n/a throws on the run goofy foot again (off his right leg) but makes an accurate

7) Shotgun PA zone read QB draw powers through 2 tackles for the TD

8) Shotgun PA half roll out- pressure in the face- makes nice touch pass on TE drag left to right OT+ TAR+ IS+ 2:24s

9) Shotgun Pump n Go right sideline vs all out blitz picked up beautifully- delivers OT+ TAR+ IS+
to wide open Darvin Adams TD!
...from Auburn 35 to their 30 about a 40 yard throw on a line w/ late pressure closing in 2:37s


**10) Shotgun drop backs hits left WR on a 12 yd comeback OT+ TAR+ IS+ ball got there in a hurry

11) Shotgun PA swing pass OT+ TAR+ IS+

12-13) 2 designed QB runs= 1st down

14) Under Center PA evades sacks by juking DL in the backfield keeps eyes upfield hits RB on swing/flat right OT+ TAR+ IS+

15) Shotgun-dash right no pressure keeps eyes downfield, pressure comes throws a shuffle/scramble throws goofy foot fading away arm pass OT+ OT- IS- 3:13s

16) Shotgun PA sideline WR hitch left OT+ TAR+ IS

17) Shotgun PA sideline WR hitch right OT+ TAR+ IS+

18) Shotgun dash right from their 45 to the 3 yards deep in the endzone steps into uncorks it looks like he had plenty of arm left (50+ yard throw) TD

19) Pistol WR screen L

20) Pistol slot comeback OT+ TAR+ IS+

21) Shotgun PA feels and avoids pressure scrambles effortlessly to his left for a 20 yard gain (this run was Randall Cunninghamesque)

**22) (Plenty of time/clean pocket) Shotgun straight drop back-maintains good helmet discipline down the center of the field until the last second when he looks/pivots left and hits a WR that beat the CB on and out and up and Cam beat the Safety w/ the good eye discipline and throw (from the 50 to the 10 40 yd throw w/ ease) OT+ TAR+ IS+ 4:22s

23) Shotgun zone read QB dive trucks the LB for a TD

24) Shotgun zone read keeper runs left full speed jump-cut to pick up the 1st down nice play -gifted open field runner 5:38

25) Shotgun Pump & Go (clean pocket) slot wheel route right steps up throws OT+ TAR+ IS+


For this game:
Instincts+Intuition- 4 made plays no mistakes fumbles/ints
Competitiveness -4
Arm Strength -5 (self evident)
Complete Inventory of passes -5
Quick Delivery -4
Touch- 3 (judging from stats here b/c the incompletions weren't shown but 17/28 w/ 60.7% likely includes some mistakes/missed a few throws)
Read defense -3 (offense didn't require much reading of coverages but executed the offense and made his progressions made good decisions)
Mobility+Avoidance -5
Function while injured - N/A
Not easily rattled-4
Spontaneous decision/play making -5

My questions/nit-picks on Cam:
o sometimes throws arm passes without stepping into the throw
o he'll have to get used to seeing the field and making his progressions from undercenter
o after playing behind an OL that kept him well protected we'll have to see how he handles things when his process is sped up and he's getting hit

Newton is a talent.
He has all the physical tools: big time arm, great mobility, solid mechanics, nice compact throwing motion w/ quick release.
A lot of his offense doesn't translate directly into the NFL but some of it does and a QB w/ his tools in the hands of the right QB mentor in the right situation has great upside.
I wouldn't mind that place being here in DC but looking at the QBs from Kyle Shanahan's vantage point I have a hard time reconciling Kyle Shanahan's statements on Tebow last year: w/ him wanting to draft a player like Cam. (If he's even available I doubt it, my money has Newton going to Chan Gailey and the Bills)


Quote:
Originally Posted by darrelgreenie View Post
(I just realized that we haven't commented much on each other's breakdowns in the Locker and Gabbert threads)

Reading your breakdown we saw a lot of the same things.
These throws stood out to me: On your chart passes: 1,2,4,6,8,17,25-(mine1,2,4,8,10,22,25)
I think its evident from these that Newton has an above average arm and solid mechanics/compact motion/quick release.
But passes 2,17 and 18 really show his NFL potential he hangs in the pocket goes through his progressions and really makes some nice throws; on pass 17 he holds the Safety in the middle of the field with his eyes.
He does a good job of keeping his eyes downfield and his playmaking is evident.

But for the most part he's very well protected this game.
I want to see a game where a team gets pressure on him.
He sometimes throws off balance off his back foot or goofy footed (Rodgers often throws goofy foot when he scrambles) but he's got enough arm where its not a problem.
Like many spread QBs he's gonna have to get comfortable with operating under center.
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Old 02-26-2011, 01:59 AM   #258
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Re: ESPN Say's Newton To Enter Draft

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Originally Posted by skinsfaninok View Post
He was pretty good at UW, is he still a little raw? Yes no doubt but if you think any other QB in this draft is ready to play next year, you are mistaken. Let me ask you this my man, you say Gabbert? What has he done that Locker hasn't? Thats right Nothing, so we are in the same boat my friend just different opinions. Btw I would take Green or Miller at 10 also, BUT they won't be there. How bout we go after Matt Flynn or Kyle Orton?





Jake Locker, Washington, NFL Draft - DraftCountdown.com


pretty good assessment of Locker
When I have argued against Locker it has not been in the belief that someone else was going to come in right away and light it up. I am not sure that any QB this year will be able to step in right away.

Locker does have a big arm and can run, as you said above, but many college QB's have had that combo and not made a dent in the NFL. Akili Smith first comes to mind. Locker's senior year was not good and his Senior Bowl was awful.

I don't think that Ponder, the Senior Bowl MVP, is immediately plug-and-play. But given that he played in a pro style offense, is accurate (unlike Locker), and might be the smartest QB prospect, he might play as soon as anyone else.

I like that Matt Flynn idea. I wonder what his price will be if the CBA morass even allows such a trade.
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Old 02-26-2011, 02:29 AM   #259
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Re: ESPN Say's Newton To Enter Draft

Some of you people are about to drive me crazy using the Senior Bowl as a scouting profile of Jake Locker or any other QB for that matter.

It's absurd.
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Old 02-26-2011, 07:58 AM   #260
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Re: ESPN Say's Newton To Enter Draft

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lotus View Post
When I have argued against Locker it has not been in the belief that someone else was going to come in right away and light it up. I am not sure that any QB this year will be able to step in right away.

Locker does have a big arm and can run, as you said above, but many college QB's have had that combo and not made a dent in the NFL. Akili Smith first comes to mind. Locker's senior year was not good and his Senior Bowl was awful.

I don't think that Ponder, the Senior Bowl MVP, is immediately plug-and-play. But given that he played in a pro style offense, is accurate (unlike Locker), and might be the smartest QB prospect, he might play as soon as anyone else.

I like that Matt Flynn idea. I wonder what his price will be if the CBA morass even allows such a trade.



I would think a 3rd rounder for Flynn would be fair but we don't have a 3rd so I guess that means our 2nd round pick would have to go to GB.
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Old 02-26-2011, 09:17 AM   #261
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Re: ESPN Say's Newton To Enter Draft

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Originally Posted by wilsowilso View Post
Some of you people are about to drive me crazy using the Senior Bowl as a scouting profile of Jake Locker or any other QB for that matter.

It's absurd.
I was also using the four years of trash known as his college career.
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Old 02-26-2011, 09:40 AM   #262
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Re: ESPN Say's Newton To Enter Draft

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I was also using the four years of trash known as his college career.
His last 2 seasons weren't that bad now, did he go Sam bradford like? no but locker didn't have much help either.

Josh Freeman didn't exactly light it up at KSU either and he's turned out pretty good.
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Old 02-26-2011, 10:21 AM   #263
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Re: ESPN Say's Newton To Enter Draft

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Originally Posted by wilsowilso View Post
Some of you people are about to drive me crazy using the Senior Bowl as a scouting profile of Jake Locker or any other QB for that matter.

It's absurd.
If you look more closely, you will see that I mentioned his entire senior year, not just the Senior Bowl. If you want to understand his inaccuracy you'll look at his entire college career.

The Senior Bowl is only one game, as you intimate. But dismissing the Senior Bowl is foolish. In the Senior Bowl Locker played with the best, just like he will do in the NFL. And he was terrible.
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Old 02-26-2011, 11:15 AM   #264
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Re: ESPN Say's Newton To Enter Draft

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Originally Posted by skinsfaninok View Post
His last 2 seasons weren't that bad now, did he go Sam bradford like? no but locker didn't have much help either.

Josh Freeman didn't exactly light it up at KSU either and he's turned out pretty good.
I liked Freeman's intangibles and decision making a hell of a lot more than Locker's. That "bad" supporting cast thing isn't a very good argument IMO either.
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Old 02-26-2011, 12:12 PM   #265
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Re: ESPN Say's Newton To Enter Draft

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I liked Freeman's intangibles and decision making a hell of a lot more than Locker's. That "bad" supporting cast thing isn't a very good argument IMO either.
The bad supporting cast isn't an 'argument' its either a true statement or its not.
And although you might not agree it is in fact something scouts consider when assessing a player case in point Josh Freeman.
If you follow the draft process at all you should know who Gil Brandt is and the weight his opinions carry:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gil Brandt:
I probably differ with the questioner a little bit. I think Josh Freeman from Kansas State has a chance to be a very good quarterback in the NFL, just as Daunte Culpepper was with the Vikings when he was healthy. Freeman played on a poor team in 2008, and if you look at what he did in 2007, you’d be pretty excited about what he could do for your team in 2010. Freeman has tremendous upside. As a point of reference, look at Kansas State’s game against Texas in 2007, when he led the Wildcats to a 41-21 victory in Austin, Tex.
Draft Q. & A. With Gil Brandt - NYTimes.com

Nothing against Freeman's intangibles but if there is one area where Locker is at the top its intangibles.
Locker is about as clean a prospect from an intangibles view point as Tim Tebow.

We get that you don't like Jake Locker as a prospect but you don't need to invent spurious reasons to support your view.

Jake Locker wether you agree or not is one of the top rated QBs in this draft class for a reason.
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Old 02-26-2011, 12:16 PM   #266
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Re: ESPN Say's Newton To Enter Draft

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Originally Posted by warriorzpath View Post
After seeing a lot of reference back to Aaron Rodgers, I was trying to determine what was different about him and Alex Smith and Jason Campbell coming out of college in the same draft year.

They all seemed to be talented, even though Alex Smith was preceived to be on another level -- which was indicated by their draft positions. So it wasn't something that only the nfl scouts saw.

I know it wasn't about winning because in Jason Campbell's senior year, Auburn finished undefeated and ranked #2.

So what was it in Rodgers that was different coming out of college -- that we should look for in a qb coming out of the draft this year (or any other year for that matter)?

Or is it an intangible trait that you can't really measure or discover until after the qb's been drafted?
Dilfer says it's the coaching/system changes EVERY year for Smith; that he's extremely talented and smart but never has the time to settle into a system. Same could be said for Campbell to a lesser extent, well except the extremely smart part.

Rodgers well.. smart.. same system, chance to learn, etc
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Old 02-26-2011, 01:49 PM   #267
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Re: ESPN Say's Newton To Enter Draft

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Dilfer says it's the coaching/system changes EVERY year for Smith; that he's extremely talented and smart but never has the time to settle into a system. Same could be said for Campbell to a lesser extent, well except the extremely smart part.

Rodgers well.. smart.. same system, chance to learn, etc
So what you're saying is - the qb needs to be extremely talented and smart, and is drafted with an nfl team that provides him a system with stability and a chance to learn.

So even though a quarterback needs to be talented and smart, it appears that the success of quarterback probably has more to do with the team that drafts him and the position that's he's put in. I think you're on to something, but I think you've just scratched the surface on this.
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Old 02-26-2011, 04:46 PM   #268
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Re: ESPN Say's Newton To Enter Draft

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Originally Posted by skinsfaninok View Post
His last 2 seasons weren't that bad now, did he go Sam bradford like? no but locker didn't have much help either.

Josh Freeman didn't exactly light it up at KSU either and he's turned out pretty good.
Also he managed to lead his team to a victory in the bowl game vs. Nebraska, no small feat mind you.
I also get that you don't like Locker, that's fine, you're entitled to your opinion. But what exactly is it that makes Gabbert this superior prospect in your eyes? When you get down to brass tacks, Locker has everything a team would want in a franchise qb except for the accuracy issues in the pocket. What matters from there is whether or not a teams coaching staff feels that the accuracy issues are fixable. If they are, then I really don't see what any of the other qbs bring to the table that is superior to Locker.
Either way, I still say we pass on a qb this year and fill other holes. Look to draft one next year in what appears to be a deeper pool.
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Old 02-26-2011, 05:08 PM   #269
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Re: ESPN Say's Newton To Enter Draft

Dang it 30, I get it.....you think Locker is the choice at 10. However I avoided the Locker thread because of the essays you were posting there. They honestly are bordering on the absurd. This is the Cam Newton thread...granted you alone didn't take it off course, but you have managed to force it down a singular path. I appreciate your infatuation with stats and draft knowledge, but damn man......relax.
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Old 02-26-2011, 05:26 PM   #270
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Re: ESPN Say's Newton To Enter Draft

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Originally Posted by Terpfan76 View Post
Also he managed to lead his team to a victory in the bowl game vs. Nebraska, no small feat mind you.
I also get that you don't like Locker, that's fine, you're entitled to your opinion. But what exactly is it that makes Gabbert this superior prospect in your eyes? When you get down to brass tacks, Locker has everything a team would want in a franchise qb except for the accuracy issues in the pocket. What matters from there is whether or not a teams coaching staff feels that the accuracy issues are fixable. If they are, then I really don't see what any of the other qbs bring to the table that is superior to Locker.
Either way, I still say we pass on a qb this year and fill other holes. Look to draft one next year in what appears to be a deeper pool.
Isn't that like saying that "He has everything that a team needs in a #1 receiver except for speed, agility, and hands"?
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