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ESPN Say's Newton To Enter Draft

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Old 03-08-2011, 02:01 PM   #301
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Re: ESPN Say's Newton To Enter Draft

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Originally Posted by NC_Skins View Post
Even more so now that their will be a rookie salary cap. It means a team isn't going to have to pay the huge costs if he's a bust. However, drafting the wrong QB will set your franchise back 3-5 years regardless of how much money you give him. Had Vinny been here, we would have drafted Jimmy Clausen at the #4 spot this past year. Like Shanny said in the book, it's amazing how stupid people are when it comes to making picks.

I don't see the Panthers taking him. JR doesn't like to take players that have had troubled pasts so I definitely think they'll go defense. My guess is they want people to think that so they can trade out of the pick and get more bang for the buck.
I'm not sure which way the Panthers will go. Love him or hate him Newton is the kind of guy that creates a buzz, and a place like Carolina could use a guy like him to put buts in seats and get the fan base energized again.
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Old 03-08-2011, 04:12 PM   #302
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Re: ESPN Say's Newton To Enter Draft

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Originally Posted by NC_Skins View Post
I put Cam Newton on the same lines as Tim Tebow.
Then you would be wrong.
Right off the bat Cam Newton throws the ball much better then Tebow probably ever will.
Stronger arm, better release, more consisent mechanics etc.

I think I'll let Mayock himself clear up the next portion of your post:
Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by You
If you want a true professional's opinion, then try Mayock's.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MIKE MAYOCK
I said that Iíve got four [Gabbert, Locker, Newton, Mallett] guys with first round ability.
2011 NFL Scouting Combine: Mike Mayock conference call (February 17); Part 1 | Blog And Tackle



Quote:
Based off of talent at the QB spot alone, he's not a 1st round grade.
Talent is exactly why Cam has 1st round ability.
Cam Newton looking purely at a talent perspective like you suggest is easily a top pick.
If you can honestly look at Newton and not see or understand his raw talent you might not understand what you're looking at.

After all the bluster of your post my point remains:
Quote:
Originally Posted by 30gut View Post
I think if people are honest with themselves its kinda obvious that Cam Newton is a first round talent.
But, at the same time being talented does not guarantee success for Newton or for anybody else.
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Old 03-08-2011, 04:35 PM   #303
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Re: ESPN Say's Newton To Enter Draft

Mcshay and Kiper have us taking Cam
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Old 03-08-2011, 07:01 PM   #304
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Re: ESPN Say's Newton To Enter Draft

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Mcshay and Kiper have us taking Cam
Did Kiper change his pick? Last I saw he had us taking Gabbert
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Old 03-08-2011, 07:38 PM   #305
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Re: ESPN Say's Newton To Enter Draft

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Did Kiper change his pick? Last I saw he had us taking Gabbert
Maybe it was just McShay but I could have swore the scroll also said Kiper.
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Old 03-08-2011, 07:39 PM   #306
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Re: ESPN Say's Newton To Enter Draft

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What happened at his pro day today?

I'm sure he must have looked better than the combine workout.
50-60 passing is the last I heard, also he continued to impress with his athleticism, no shocker there
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Old 03-08-2011, 07:58 PM   #307
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Re: ESPN Say's Newton To Enter Draft

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I think I'll let Mayock himself clear up the next portion of your post:



Talent is exactly why Cam has 1st round ability.
Cam Newton looking purely at a talent perspective like you suggest is easily a top pick.
If you can honestly look at Newton and not see or understand his raw talent you might not understand what you're looking at.

After all the bluster of your post my point remains:
Your point doesn't remain. If that's the case, Olympic athletes have 1st round talent to be a WR/OL/DL. Why aren't they drafted? Maybe because of ..I dunno...OTHER FACTORS?? Mayock even said that he himself would NOT take him in the first round (the same with JaMarcus R.) based off the other factors. He's a first round talent in terms of of being a incredible athlete and potential, but he's not a 1st round talent in terms of a polished QB. Does that mean nobody is going to take him? Sure there will be, just like the Raiders took JaMarcus Russell with the first pick. Idiots will always be lured by that "shiny diamond" that always ends up being a polished turd.

There is nothing he's done so far that can translate well to the NFL. Shotgun formations? One read and go offense? Running more than he passes? One year in college football? If you are trying to convince me of his "upside" and "potential" to be a great QB, then you are wasting your time. I know he has all the "potential" and "upside" there is in a QB. I've also gone on record saying that the first round isn't the place you take "projects" either, and that the person being drafted in the 1st round are generally projected day 1 starters. Do you see Cam Newton as a day 1 starter? I sure as hell don't. More like a project who'll need 1-3 years at best.


Also, Bruce Campbell was a slated 1st round "talent" to be a dominate LT in the NFL, yet he didn't go till the 4th round. Why is that? It's because teams don't want to waste a 1st round pick on a project who isn't going to help the team immediately.

Last edited by NC_Skins; 03-08-2011 at 09:30 PM.
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Old 03-08-2011, 09:57 PM   #308
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Re: ESPN Say's Newton To Enter Draft

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Originally Posted by NC_Skins View Post
Your point doesn't remain. If that's the case, Olympic athletes have 1st round talent to be a WR/OL/DL. Why aren't they drafted? Maybe because of ..I dunno...OTHER FACTORS?? Mayock even said that he himself would NOT take him in the first round (the same with JaMarcus R.) based off the other factors. He's a first round talent in terms of of being a incredible athlete and potential, but he's not a 1st round talent in terms of a polished QB. Does that mean nobody is going to take him? Sure there will be, just like the Raiders took JaMarcus Russell with the first pick. Idiots will always be lured by that "shiny diamond" that always ends up being a polished turd.

There is nothing he's done so far that can translate well to the NFL. Shotgun formations? One read and go offense? Running more than he passes? One year in college football? If you are trying to convince me of his "upside" and "potential" to be a great QB, then you are wasting your time. I know he has all the "potential" and "upside" there is in a QB. I've also gone on record saying that the first round isn't the place you take "projects" either, and that the person being drafted in the 1st round are generally projected day 1 starters. Do you see Cam Newton as a day 1 starter? I sure as hell don't. More like a project who'll need 1-3 years at best.


Also, Bruce Campbell was a slated 1st round "talent" to be a dominate LT in the NFL, yet he didn't go till the 4th round. Why is that? It's because teams don't want to waste a 1st round pick on a project who isn't going to help the team immediately.
While this is true, he also had a horrible pro day or combine. He had rumored problems with his reflexes and such. The real difference though, is by position. Quarterback is one of the few positions where a best-case scenario means that he isn't playing in his rookie season. When a team is drafting their future LT in the first 20 or so selections, they most likely need him to be able to step into the fire right away.
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Old 03-08-2011, 10:35 PM   #309
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Re: ESPN Say's Newton To Enter Draft

NFL Videos: Should Newton start right away?

The CAM talk is heating up with the Redskins
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Old 03-09-2011, 12:24 AM   #310
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Re: ESPN Say's Newton To Enter Draft

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Originally Posted by NC_Skins View Post
Your point doesn't remain.
Its almost universally accepted that Cam Newton possesses 1st round talent.
(The almost being you)

Quote:
Mayock even said that he himself would NOT take him in the first round
B.S.
Find a quote where Mayock has said that.

Quote:
He's a first round talent in terms of of being a incredible athlete and potential, but he's not a 1st round talent in terms of a polished QB.
You realize now that you have just changed your position?
From 'not a 1st round talent' to '1st round talent in terms of a polished QB'

Quote:
If you are trying to convince me of his "upside" and "potential" to be a great QB, then you are wasting your time.
I'm not trying to convince you anything.
You decided to challenge the following fairly obvious statement:
Quote:
Originally Posted by 30gut View Post
I think if people are honest with themselves its kinda obvious that Cam Newton is a first round talent.
But, at the same time being talented does not guarantee success for Newton or for anybody else.
Quote:
Do you see Cam Newton as a day 1 starter? I sure as hell don't. More like a project who'll need 1-3 years at best.
I think it would be best for Cam to sit at least til midway through the season.

But, could he be a day 1 starter? Depends on where he goes, their OC, the talent on offense and their opening game schedule.

I think its also important to note that Gil Brandt thinks Cam Newton should be the top pick in the draft.
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Old 03-09-2011, 08:22 AM   #311
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Re: ESPN Say's Newton To Enter Draft

Right now I would say if CAM is there at 10 we will draft him
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Old 03-09-2011, 08:24 AM   #312
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Re: ESPN Say's Newton To Enter Draft

Vinny said he wouldn't draft Cam, so that means we should definitely draft him.
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Old 03-09-2011, 08:29 AM   #313
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Re: ESPN Say's Newton To Enter Draft

^ lol Vinny got us Orakpo so I'll give him a little pass
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Old 03-09-2011, 08:48 AM   #314
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Re: ESPN Say's Newton To Enter Draft

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You realize now that you have just changed your position?
From 'not a 1st round talent' to '1st round talent in terms of a polished QB'
I haven't changed anything. When I said "he's a first round grade based of being a great athlete and potential", I wasn't saying I thought he was. That's why the other draft pundits have him listed. It's also why they had Bruce Campbell listed so high as even going in the top 10. Why? All because of the "potential" and "upside".

Those are two of the worst words you want to hear about a draft prospect in the first round. The words you want to mostly hear are "immediate impact". So in conclusion, if you are ranking a 1st round grade on a kid based on "potential" and "upside" instead of polished products, then chances are you are going to blow your pick and set your team back 3-5 years.

Notice teams like the Patriots don't take "projects" like those of Cam Newton in their drafts? You see the Oakland Raiders doing it constantly (beyward-hey, russell, gallery) and how has it worked out for them?

Goes back to my point that you don't draft projects (that huge) in the first round, and somebody with as many flags as he is has to be considered a "project".

At this point, we will agree to disagree, but I'll leave it with this. If any team drafts him in the first round expecting him to make a immediate impact, then they will be set back years. This kid is going to fall flat on his face. The reg flags are there, and stupid teams will ignore them.

1) Character issues
2) Questionable intelligence (cheating verifies this)
3) No experience in reading defenses
4) No experience in pro-style offense or taking snaps from center
5) Accuracy issues
6) Footwork issues
7) Dedication to football questioned (he's a entertainer per his words)


1) big arm
2) great athelete


Yup, I'd say the bad outweighs the good by a huge margin.
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Old 03-09-2011, 09:25 AM   #315
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Re: ESPN Say's Newton To Enter Draft

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Originally Posted by NC_Skins View Post
I haven't changed anything. When I said "he's a first round grade based of being a great athlete and potential", I wasn't saying I thought he was. That's why the other draft pundits have him listed. It's also why they had Bruce Campbell listed so high as even going in the top 10. Why? All because of the "potential" and "upside".

Those are two of the worst words you want to hear about a draft prospect in the first round. The words you want to mostly hear are "immediate impact". So in conclusion, if you are ranking a 1st round grade on a kid based on "potential" and "upside" instead of polished products, then chances are you are going to blow your pick and set your team back 3-5 years.

Notice teams like the Patriots don't take "projects" like those of Cam Newton in their drafts? You see the Oakland Raiders doing it constantly (beyward-hey, russell, gallery) and how has it worked out for them?

Goes back to my point that you don't draft projects (that huge) in the first round, and somebody with as many flags as he is has to be considered a "project".

At this point, we will agree to disagree, but I'll leave it with this. If any team drafts him in the first round expecting him to make a immediate impact, then they will be set back years. This kid is going to fall flat on his face. The reg flags are there, and stupid teams will ignore them.

1) Character issues
2) Questionable intelligence (cheating verifies this)
3) No experience in reading defenses
4) No experience in pro-style offense or taking snaps from center
5) Accuracy issues
6) Footwork issues
7) Dedication to football questioned (he's a entertainer per his words)


1) big arm
2) great athelete


Yup, I'd say the bad outweighs the good by a huge margin.


Well we know who you dont want to draft
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