Matt Barkley Stays (QB Draft Prospect Thread-Episode IV)

30gut

I agree to an extent.
But, the ability to 'read' defenses isn't innate its taught/learned.
The ability to read defenses has a lot to with the QBs apptitude and intelligence but imo its equally a function of:

o the system
o coaching
o experience/continuity

People say things like this about spread QBs every year.
But, imo being ready to play isn't a question of coming from a pro-style offense or not.
Its a question of maturity, coachability, drive, confidence, intelligence and of course talent.
Cam Newton, Andy Dalton, Bradford, Colt McCoy all had coaches 'reading' the defense 'for' them (its par for the course for spread QBs) but that didn't stop these guys from playing early or right away.

The bigger question imo isn't the apptitude of RGIII but rather of Kyle.
The inability to teach any other QB the offense has led to Rex being our QB for 15 games.
This imo calls into question how easily the offense can be taught.
Rookies Cam Newton and Andy Dalton, non-pro-style/spread QBs, were able to learn their respective offense in a shortened offseason.
Matt Moore was able to learn a new offense at the end of training camp.
Carson Palmer and Kyle Orton learned their offseason mid-season.
Yet, Rex Grossman was our QB because he knew our offense.

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No longer were NFL coaches dealing inflexibly with spread [QBs] in ways that caused stunted development for players like [A. Smith and Vick] now, the idea is to bring what the quarterback can do, and what he should do, together as an organic whole

GTripp0012

I think they've done a good job with Grossman. But the offensive upside is limited. Because it's Rex Grossman.

I think you've really touched on a number of bottom line things here.

One thing I would add is that the "pro-style" offense in college doesn't typically involve a lot of pro reads. That's what makes Luck so different from everyone else, because one of the biggest limitations on QBs coming from college to the pros (the abilities to use coverage reads and to work a progression) is something Luck is already doing. Because of that, you don't risk a situation like you have with Sanchez where three years down the line you need a fall guy because your quarterback isn't improving.

Andrew Luck could still fail. He could play inconsistently in his first season, get hurt and miss the entire second season and then have another injury in his third preseason. Then it really doesn't matter what you have invested in Andrew Luck: you didn't get return on it. Andrew Luck could end up being the next Greg Cook. But Andrew Luck is not going to fail because of the nuances of pro offenses. He's already doing that in college.

Anyway, whether or not someone is running pro style formations in offense doesn't mean they are reading defenses. If the receiver is determined by the playcall, then the receiver is determined by the playcall. And that's the norm in college. Spread/pro/wishbone doesn't matter when projecting quarterbacks.

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Shanahan: “The bad thing is he's [Sav Rocca] probably our best offensive weapon and that’s not good.”

GTripp0012

Well, there are things can do when a quarterback is under pressure besides eluding the rush and taking a death-defying sack.

Just to give one example: he can throw the ball to a receiver.

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Shanahan: “The bad thing is he's [Sav Rocca] probably our best offensive weapon and that’s not good.”

CultBrennan59

Boise State's Kellen Moore has NFL talent; college mailbag - Stewart Mandel - SI.com

Good read about Kellen Moore

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When in doubt, go with the SEC

CultBrennan59

watched inside the nfl tonight. Nothing really new/important, but Michael Lombardi said that the st. louis job is appealing to coaches and he heard that if st. louis got the number 1 pick, that they Will trade it to the highest bidder in a hershel walker type of deal, which could be--as this board has mentioned--3 first rounders. I don't remember if he mentioned washington or not, but we need--if we want Luck--to have the jags lose to Indy-as we've mentioned before.

The point of this post is that what we keep hearing and hearing is starting to become more of a definite reality, should St. Louis get the pick.

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When in doubt, go with the SEC

GTripp0012

Well, if St. Louis was silly enough to trade the Luck pick, I'd certainly like the Redskins to put a package together.

Three first round picks would be a starting point, but they'll be lucky to get something nice in addition to two first round picks. I doubt you'll have to touch the 2014 draft to make that trade.

I don't know if I would do a first and a second in 2012 and a first and a second in 2013, but I think that that would be a reasonable return for the first overall pick in this draft. I don't know if I'd match that, but I could see a team getting that.

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Shanahan: “The bad thing is he's [Sav Rocca] probably our best offensive weapon and that’s not good.”

CultBrennan59

Remember, as I've been saying on the other thread, just because you trade 3 first rounders, doesn't mean its 3 straight years 2012-2014, it could be 2012 2014 2016.

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When in doubt, go with the SEC

GTripp0012

But then it's not as valuable to the team that's receiving it. What the heck is a 2016 first round pick worth to someone like the Polian's today? Nothing.

That's like saying that 3 high picks doesn't have to be 3 first round picks. They could be 3 second round picks. Well, sure they could. But it's not as good as an offer.

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Shanahan: “The bad thing is he's [Sav Rocca] probably our best offensive weapon and that’s not good.”

CultBrennan59

Thats not true at all.

Perfect example, Richard Seymour traded to the Raiders a few years ago from the patriots. The raiders traded their 2012 first round, in 2010. The patriots, who are well known drafters, gladly accepted it.

So are you saying back in 2010 its worthless for a team to receive the rams/colts first round pick for 2012(this year), not knowing what Luck would be? A first rounder is a first rounder.

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When in doubt, go with the SEC

Lotus

There's a difference between a first rounder which skips one draft and a first rounder which skips 4 drafts (as in your 2016 example).

Besides the Seymour trade was an exception, not the rule.

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Rooting for the Dallas Cowboys should be recognized as a treatable mental disorder.

Dirtbag59

Just to clarify Bradford did play in a pro style offense during his freshman year that was centered around play action. It was the year after that saw the Sooners switch to the spread in spite of Bradfords success under center.

Anyway speaking of Sooner QB's.

Jake_Trotter Jake Trotter
Landry Jones talked more about the draft today. Said he's gone back and forth several times about what to do.
9 hours ago Favorite Retweet Reply

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Flacco is 1337 Fanclub President

GTripp0012

The accepted conversion rate that the NFL uses in trades is about one round/year. So a 2014 first round pick could get a 2012 3rd round pick in return.

That's just what's accepted. For guys who need to win to keep their jobs, picks in 2014 and 2015 are worthless to them. They are not worthless to their franchises, but they do the guys who are currently employed by the team no good.

The reason Belichick likes to go and trade for picks a year later is because of a roster management move. If he knows he's only going to keep five or six rookies on the roster all year, it doesn't make a lot of sense to make 14 draft picks a year. That's inefficient. So he can turn something that's in demand now into something that will be more valuable when he can use it.

Which is fine. He consistently gets first rounders for second rounders and second rounders for third rounders. And he doesn't feel much of the loss of return in the draft, because he can only keep so many players on his roster.

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Shanahan: “The bad thing is he's [Sav Rocca] probably our best offensive weapon and that’s not good.”

GTripp0012

I am saying this: if you are Tom Cable, head coach of the Raiders, and you trade your second round pick in 2010 to the Colts for the pick in 2012 that ends up being Andrew Luck, you don't get to take that pick with you when you get fired and become OL coach for the Seahawks.

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Shanahan: “The bad thing is he's [Sav Rocca] probably our best offensive weapon and that’s not good.”