And with the 6th pick in the 2012 NFL Draft, the redskins select...........

Ruhskins · 03-05-2012, 10:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SkinzWin

I think the reason people defecate on him is if he was the terrific QB some people make him out to be, with the talent he has surrounding him they should have been going deep into the playoffs every year. But with the exception of his rookie year in 2008 where they won their first two playoff games, the Ravens have been one and done in the playoffs each year since.

Any average quarterback can get a stacked team to the playoffs. Jason Campbell could do that. Buy my point is, how can Flacco be even marginally better than Campbell when their numbers are fairly similar and Flacco has played on stacked teams and Campbell has played on not great teams? In my mind, that makes Flacco look worse than better.

You make it sound like we're talking about a 10 year period....but it's been only 4 years. And in those 4 years:

- 2008: Lost to the Steelers in the AFC Championship Game (as a rookie)
- 2009: Lost to the Colts in the 2nd round of the playoffs
- 2010: Lost to the Steelers in the 2nd round of the playoffs (the game where both Boldin and TJ Housh dropped TDs in the 4th quarter)
- 2011: The Ravens were a Lee Evans dropped TD from going to the Superbowl

I'd be curious to see what other average/below average QBs could do with a team like the Ravens. Still, you have to have some talent to be a playoff team four years in a row, including two AFC Championship appearances...or at the do enough to get the team there.

mredskins · 03-05-2012, 10:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ruhskins

You make it sound like we're talking about a 10 year period....but it's been only 4 years. And in those 4 years:

- 2008: Lost to the Steelers in the AFC Championship Game (as a rookie)
- 2009: Lost to the Colts in the 2nd round of the playoffs
- 2010: Lost to the Steelers in the 2nd round of the playoffs (the game where both Boldin and TJ Housh dropped TDs in the 4th quarter)
- 2011: The Ravens were a Lee Evans dropped TD from going to the Superbowl

I'd be curious to see what other average/below average QBs could do with a team like the Ravens. Still, you have to have some talent to be a playoff team four years in a row, including two AFC Championship appearances...or at the do enough to get the team there.

Ok bottom line would yo uwant him on the Skins over say Peyton or RG3? I would not. I take him over Sanchez.

If you put JF on the Skins between 08 to 11 he would not have had that same success in the playoffs or even had seen the playoffs.

Ruhskins · 03-05-2012, 10:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mredskins

Ok bottom line would yo uwant him on the Skins over say Peyton or RG3? I would not. I take him over Sanchez.

If you put JF on the Skins between 08 to 11 he would not have had that same success in the playoffs or even had seen the playoffs.

People here are arguing that Flacco is a below average QB on the Ravens. I haven't said that he's elite or anything like that. I just make the argument that he's a good QB on a team with a very good running game and a very good/elite defense. Still, even with all of that, a QB has to have some talent to have the type of success the Ravens have had...or at the least manage the position well enough to have that success.

Who knows if he had had success here with the Redskins. The point is that he's been a good QB in the situation he has been with the Ravens.

SkinzWin · 03-05-2012, 11:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ruhskins

You make it sound like we're talking about a 10 year period....but it's been only 4 years. And in those 4 years:

- 2008: Lost to the Steelers in the AFC Championship Game (as a rookie)
- 2009: Lost to the Colts in the 2nd round of the playoffs
- 2010: Lost to the Steelers in the 2nd round of the playoffs (the game where both Boldin and TJ Housh dropped TDs in the 4th quarter)
- 2011: The Ravens were a Lee Evans dropped TD from going to the Superbowl

I'd be curious to see what other average/below average QBs could do with a team like the Ravens. Still, you have to have some talent to be a playoff team four years in a row, including two AFC Championship appearances...or at the do enough to get the team there.

You must not have ready my post. I never said anything about 10 years. I think 4 years is long enough to describe someone's body of work. My point was any average quarterback can go deep in the playoffs with a stacked team. Mark Rypien, Doug Williams, Mark Sanchez, Alex Smith. All of these guys are not top tier QB's yet made it deep in the playoffs because their teams were stacked at skill positions on offense defense and teams.

You said "Still, you have to have some talent to be a playoff team four years in a row." Any average QB in the NFL has some talent. And that is exactly my point, that Flacco is good enough to get them TO the playoffs but not to the Super Bowl. He hasn't been able to beat the elite teams. You have to be the best to be the best. All of the average QB's I listed won or got close to the Super Bowl. Not because they were great, but because their teams were great. You haven't said anything different than what I said really.

Ruhskins · 03-05-2012, 11:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SkinzWin

You must not have ready my post. I never said anything about 10 years. I think 4 years is long enough to describe someone's body of work. My point was any average quarterback can go deep in the playoffs with a stacked team. Mark Rypien, Doug Williams, Mark Sanchez, Alex Smith. All of these guys are not top tier QB's yet made it deep in the playoffs because their teams were stacked at skill positions on offense defense and teams.

You said "Still, you have to have some talent to be a playoff team four years in a row." Any average QB in the NFL has some talent. And that is exactly my point, that Flacco is good enough to get them TO the playoffs but not to the Super Bowl. He hasn't been able to beat the elite teams. You have to be the best to be the best. All of the average QB's I listed won or got close to the Super Bowl. Not because they were great, but because their teams were great. You haven't said anything different than what I said really.

I don't think my opinion is that far away from yours. I just don't think Flacco is as terrible as some people make him out to be. I am not going to be naive and say that he's elite and on the same level as Brady/Manning/Brees, but the way some people talk about him (including Ravens fan) it would make you think that he is the QB of a perennial loser.

SkinzWin · 03-05-2012, 11:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ruhskins

I don't think my opinion is that far away from yours. I just don't think Flacco is as terrible as some people make him out to be. I am not going to be naive and say that he's elite and on the same level as Brady/Manning/Brees, but the way some people talk about him (including Ravens fan) it would make you think that he is the QB of a perennial loser.

I understand. I think my main point was simply that you could plug in an average QB to the Ravens and they would most likely still make the playoffs each year.

mooby · 03-05-2012, 11:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SkinzWin

I understand. I think my main point was simply that you could plug in an average QB to the Ravens and they would most likely still make the playoffs each year.

Kyle Boller disagrees.

Ruhskins · 03-05-2012, 11:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mooby

Kyle Boller disagrees.

SkinzWin · 03-05-2012, 11:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mooby

Kyle Boller disagrees.

Kyle Boller would have to be an average quarterback first... That would be stretching things a bit.

mooby · 03-05-2012, 12:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SkinzWin

Kyle Boller would have to be an average quarterback first... That would be stretching things a bit.

I would say he was about average for that time period, average considering the fact there was a lot of terrible qb's during that time. I would consider Flacco above-average. I don't think it's a coincidence that the Ravens have made the playoffs every year with Flacco under center. He's certainly better than McNair/Boller.

SkinzWin · 03-05-2012, 12:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mooby

I would say he was about average for that time period, average considering the fact there was a lot of terrible qb's during that time. I would consider Flacco above-average. I don't think it's a coincidence that the Ravens have made the playoffs every year with Flacco under center. He's certainly better than McNair/Boller.

He maybe an average back-up. There is no way he was an average starter in the league even then.

mredskins · 03-05-2012, 01:02 PM

Boller is garbage; Rex is better then Boller by a mile.

IT been interesting to see how Jason Campbell would have done in B-more over the span of Flacco's career. I bet it be pretty on par. I think Flacco is a little better then JC but not by much.

mooby · 03-05-2012, 02:17 PM

Although Boller was not good as a starting quarterback, out of the 32 starting quarterbacks in the NFL in his starting time period, I would rate him as slightly below average. Who would you rather have, him or John Beck at any point in Beck's career? But as far as the original point goes, I still believe Flacco does deserve credit for at least giving them the solid qb play needed to make the playoffs all those years.

mauiRedskinbarn · 03-05-2012, 02:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

Morris Claiborne and the Bucs seem to be the wild card in all this

I see what you mean. The Rams want to guarantee that they can get either Blackmon or Claiborne with the 6th pick. and that might not be possible if the Vikings pick Kalil, the Browns pick Blackmon, and the Bucs Pick Claiborne, which seems like a very likely situation.

What if the skins traded up one spot with the bucs for a 3rd round pick, then packaged the 5th overall pick with next years 1st, and a 4th and 5th round pick this year this year(I think we have 2 4th's and 2 5th's this year due to jason Cambell and Haynesworth trade.

This would guarantee the rams get claiborne or blackmon
Is this even feasible?
If I'm Bruce Allen this is Option number 1

Bubba305-ST21- · 03-05-2012, 02:48 PM

depends how bad the Bucs would want Claiborne

03-05-2012, 01:02 PM	#612
mredskins Franchise Player Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 7,944	Re: And with the 6th pick in the 2012 NFL Draft, the redskins select........... Boller is garbage; Rex is better then Boller by a mile. IT been interesting to see how Jason Campbell would have done in B-more over the span of Flacco's career. I bet it be pretty on par. I think Flacco is a little better then JC but not by much. __________________ When life gives you paper jams, turn them into paper footballs!

03-05-2012, 02:17 PM	#613
mooby MVP Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: NoVa Age: 24 Posts: 11,173	Re: And with the 6th pick in the 2012 NFL Draft, the redskins select........... Although Boller was not good as a starting quarterback, out of the 32 starting quarterbacks in the NFL in his starting time period, I would rate him as slightly below average. Who would you rather have, him or John Beck at any point in Beck's career? But as far as the original point goes, I still believe Flacco does deserve credit for at least giving them the solid qb play needed to make the playoffs all those years.

03-05-2012, 02:48 PM	#615
Bubba305-ST21- Impact Rookie Join Date: Apr 2008 Age: 25 Posts: 669	Re: And with the 6th pick in the 2012 NFL Draft, the redskins select........... depends how bad the Bucs would want Claiborne __________________ never another.....R.I.P. Sean T #21

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And with the 6th pick in the 2012 NFL Draft, the redskins select...........

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