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Change of heart...

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Old 04-13-2005, 04:10 PM   #1
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Change of heart...

I was all about Mike Williams at the 9th spot if he was still available. If not either trade down or get a CB with the #9. I recently read an ESPN article about Williams (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/draft0...ohn&id=2032742), and I think I've changed my mind.

After reading about how he worked with Cris Carter - I'm ready to package Gardner and our first to move up and secure him. I think a team will take that. Especially someone in dire need of a receiver and something else. I wouldn't be suprised if MN took that deal. Cris Carter is perhaps the best teacher a young receiver could have. Look how he molded Moss into the machine he is now. I think the way Williams has been working hard is impressive and may be a character guy.

For those of you that don't know, I hate USC, and I was totally against Williams up until maybe four months ago when the reality of our receiving corps started to come into focus. I always heard the knock on this guy was work ethic, but it looks like he's changed. He's been working hard and he wants to be the best. I'd be willing to move up a few spots in the draft to get him. Maybe Tampa, maybe MN. I think it's worth it. Anyone else have any comments?
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Old 04-13-2005, 04:12 PM   #2
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Re: Change of heart...

I think we couldnt go wrong signing him but Walt harris makes me nervous.
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Old 04-13-2005, 04:13 PM   #3
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Re: Change of heart...

i like braylon edwards better than williams,edwards seems a lot smarter and faster.i just do'nt know if gibbs will take another wr from michigan.he really screwed up with the last wr he took from there.
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Old 04-13-2005, 04:22 PM   #4
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Re: Change of heart...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Daseal
I was all about Mike Williams at the 9th spot if he was still available. If not either trade down or get a CB with the #9. I recently read an ESPN article about Williams (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/draft0...ohn&id=2032742), and I think I've changed my mind.

After reading about how he worked with Cris Carter - I'm ready to package Gardner and our first to move up and secure him. I think a team will take that. Especially someone in dire need of a receiver and something else. I wouldn't be suprised if MN took that deal. Cris Carter is perhaps the best teacher a young receiver could have. Look how he molded Moss into the machine he is now. I think the way Williams has been working hard is impressive and may be a character guy.

For those of you that don't know, I hate USC, and I was totally against Williams up until maybe four months ago when the reality of our receiving corps started to come into focus. I always heard the knock on this guy was work ethic, but it looks like he's changed. He's been working hard and he wants to be the best. I'd be willing to move up a few spots in the draft to get him. Maybe Tampa, maybe MN. I think it's worth it. Anyone else have any comments?
I agree with you 100% on this one. I LOVE this guy. He just gives me the gut feeling he is going to be a monster and we'll be kicking ourselves in 5 years if we had a shot at him and passed. I'd love to move up to get him too. I think he ascent up the draft board shows how much he has turned people's opinion of his speed around. I wonder if trading our 1,3 and Gardner for their 1 and 3 would be a good( I am assuming they have a slightly higher 3 than us)?
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Old 04-13-2005, 04:31 PM   #5
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Re: Change of heart...

Edwards will be good. He'll also be gone by the 4tg pick -- too high for us!
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Old 04-13-2005, 04:47 PM   #6
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Re: Change of heart...

Gardner is not enough to move up I don't think. They want a third round pick for him and teams are balking so far. And it usually takes a 2nd round pick to move up within the top 10. I think Cleveland payed a #2 pick to Detroit last year just to go 1 spot. Basically I love the ide of moving up for Williams, but I just don't think Gardner is enough. Maybe Gardner and our 3rd or 4th would work.
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Old 04-13-2005, 05:28 PM   #7
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Re: Change of heart...

Rod Gardner + 9th MIGHT move us to the 8th overall pick. We're having a hard time getting a 3rd rounder for Rod. Considering, that the Jets traded their 13th and 28th overall picks for the 4th overall pick and we can't get a 3rd rounder for Gardner, what makes you think we'll be able to move up by throwing in Gardner?
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Old 04-13-2005, 05:36 PM   #8
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Re: Change of heart...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Daseal
After reading about how he worked with Cris Carter - I'm ready to package Gardner and our first to move up and secure him. I think a team will take that. Especially someone in dire need of a receiver and something else. I wouldn't be suprised if MN took that deal. Cris Carter is perhaps the best teacher a young receiver could have. Look how he molded Moss into the machine he is now. I think the way Williams has been working hard is impressive and may be a character guy.

For those of you that don't know, I hate USC, and I was totally against Williams up until maybe four months ago when the reality of our receiving corps started to come into focus. I always heard the knock on this guy was work ethic, but it looks like he's changed. He's been working hard and he wants to be the best. I'd be willing to move up a few spots in the draft to get him. Maybe Tampa, maybe MN. I think it's worth it. Anyone else have any comments?
<enter twilight zone theme music here> *blink*blink*... daseal, i can't believe you said this... seriously someone must have hijacked the computer with your username... hehehe, j/k man.

in all honesty, i'm not sure where the knock on his work ethic came from- the man's always worked hard at SC... even during last season when he couldn't play, he was still at Howard Jones with the team during practice.

i know we need a corner now that smoot's gone, but williams is the type of player you grab if he falls to you regardless of need- and it's not like wr is the one position of strength on the team right now. throw the keyshawn comparisons out the door right now- he's on another level. but we're not going to see him at 9... only way to get him is to trade up and it looks like we're not going to do that. if we make the investment to trade up though, we've locked up our no. 1 for the future.
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Old 04-13-2005, 06:23 PM   #9
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Re: Change of heart...

Quote:
Originally Posted by offiss
Daseal, I wouldn't cry if we drafted him I was on his band wagon at the beggining, I just have a feeling he's the 1 guy in the top 10 who may not pan out, [ other than the QB's ] Mayok on the NFL network made an interesting point about Williams, he said he watched on more than 1 occasion 2 mediocre college CB's on different occasions jam him at the line and Williams couldn't get past them no matter what he did, I have a feeling his lack of quickness off the line or suddeness which ever you want to call it could be his achilles heel. I know he will have maybe the best pair of hand's when he arrives in the NFL, but will he be able to get open is the question, his 40 time doesn't bother me as much as his quickness off the line and coming out of his cut's that may be where he bomb's.

I still say we would have an outstanding draft if we take 1 of the top 4 CB's in the 1st, and V. Jackson in the second.
I'm with you on this one. I REALLY wanted Williams in the beginning and the more I saw of his highlights, the more I saw that he didn't run precise routes and got jammed at the line by smaller CBs. If he's working to be better, that is great. I would cautiously take him as our #1 pick, but I'd prefer Edwards. I agree with offiss that I feel like he is the one guy that might not pan out.
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Old 04-13-2005, 07:05 PM   #10
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Re: Change of heart...

how about we trade the ravens our #9 and gardner for their #22 and #52 ?
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Old 04-13-2005, 07:23 PM   #11
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Re: Change of heart...

i was just trying to think of a team that could use gardner, thats why i said the ravens. what other teams do you think could be interrsted in gardner.
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Old 04-13-2005, 10:22 PM   #12
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Re: Change of heart...

I've been a pretty decent supporter of drafting Williams and I'd love it if they were able to move up a little at a good price to draft him but I also wouldn't mind trading down a couple times to get some 2nd to 3rd round picks for Greg Williams to get a young cb or 2 to mold and use our first round pick now in the early 20s to select WR Clayton of Oklahoma or maybe a bit further down and selecting that big wr from Hampton Univ.

No matter what, I still beleive even with the loss of smoot, we need a reliable big target at wr whereas I think G. Williams and copy can fully optimize the talents of our current cbs as well as any drafted in later rounds.
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Old 04-14-2005, 12:16 AM   #13
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Re: Change of heart...

Guys - teams like Tampa and MN may take the oppurtunity to get Gardner and the 9th pick. Chances are for tampa one of the top 3 RBs will still be there at #9, and they get a decent WR out of the deal, not to mention save cap space. The Vikes may have less needs, I think they want DJ deep down, and not sure if anyone in the pick between us and them would take him.

http://www.sportsline.com/nfl/draft/mock
A bit suprised. Every single sportsline mock (3) have Williams falling to as low as 15th, but each time past the skins.
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Old 04-14-2005, 02:11 AM   #14
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Re: Change of heart...

Quote:
Originally Posted by offiss
Daseal, I wouldn't cry if we drafted him I was on his band wagon at the beggining, I just have a feeling he's the 1 guy in the top 10 who may not pan out, [ other than the QB's ] Mayok on the NFL network made an interesting point about Williams, he said he watched on more than 1 occasion 2 mediocre college CB's on different occasions jam him at the line and Williams couldn't get past them no matter what he did, I have a feeling his lack of quickness off the line or suddeness which ever you want to call it could be his achilles heel. I know he will have maybe the best pair of hand's when he arrives in the NFL, but will he be able to get open is the question, his 40 time doesn't bother me as much as his quickness off the line and coming out of his cut's that may be where he bomb's.

I still say we would have an outstanding draft if we take 1 of the top 4 CB's in the 1st, and V. Jackson in the second.
I still agree with offiss on V. Jackson. I did however just read a sporting news article on Williams and he does sound like he is the real deal. I think that he would be a monster in the league, but if we could somehow work out a trade to be able to pick up a second round pick and still be able to pick up a corner then we should only to be able to address as many areas that we can.

I say we should either take Williams, or trade down our pick pick up a second round pick and take a CB in the first round and V. Jackson in the second...
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Old 04-14-2005, 08:49 AM   #15
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Re: Change of heart...

Nobody's talking about the financial ramifications of moving up to select Williams. If you take him higher, it will take more cash to sign him, which will only put us under further strain under the salary cap.

I think you just stay at 9 and take him if you really want him that bad. I personally don't want him that bad, I'd rather take a CB. I don't like paying players that much money that take so long to develop into impact players (WRs take forever, see all my other posts on WRs being slow to develop).

Moving up to get him would be a bad idea. If they draft him at 9, I won't complain.
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