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Simply put, FEMA sucks!!

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Old 06-16-2006, 01:38 PM   #76
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Re: Simply put, FEMA sucks!!

I think first off - it's about not having a leader to take responsibility. All of the leaders in this case were thinking about themselves; they didn't care enough to say: "what's done is done, I'll take responsibility for all of this- what's important now is trying to resolve all of this." No one stepped up.

And second - there are the abuses in these cases that should lead to criminal charges.

The sad part of all of this was: there was an entire nation of people willing to donate their time, money, and energy to help - but what leadership did was: blame others and abuse the powers and resources given to them.

And of course bush didn't cause all of this - but I can compare this to a good samaritan or just a passive bystander (doing nothing) when someone needs help. Did bush need to help ? no. Should he have tried to do more in this case and take some more responsibility on, to help in this situation ? I say yes.
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Old 06-16-2006, 02:04 PM   #77
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Re: Simply put, FEMA sucks!!

TG -
No where does anything out there say that FEMA is responsible for preemptive preparedness; Everything refers to response. ie, after something has happened, not before.
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Old 06-16-2006, 02:27 PM   #78
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Re: Simply put, FEMA sucks!!

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Originally Posted by cpayne5
TG -
No where does anything out there say that FEMA is responsible for preemptive preparedness; Everything refers to response. ie, after something has happened, not before.
except for things like this (which i already quoted):
FEMA became part of the Emergency Preparedness and Response Directorate of DHS, and employs more than 2,600 full time employees.

and if you go to fema's website, they have a very large "plan ahead" section, with articles like "how to prepare for a hurricane", including evacutation info (http://www.fema.gov/plan/prepare/evacuation.shtm).


but apparently everyone missed that.
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Old 06-16-2006, 02:48 PM   #79
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Re: Simply put, FEMA sucks!!

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except for things like this (which i already quoted):
FEMA became part of the Emergency Preparedness and Response Directorate of DHS, and employs more than 2,600 full time employees.

and if you go to fema's website, they have a very large "plan ahead" section, with articles like "how to prepare for a hurricane", including evacutation info (http://www.fema.gov/plan/prepare/evacuation.shtm).


but apparently everyone missed that.
Show me where it says that the agency will take "preemtive action".

FEMA looks at what *might* happen, then reacts to it when it *does* happen. It does not act on what might happen. That is the local authorities job. It has been since day one.
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Old 06-16-2006, 03:18 PM   #80
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Re: Simply put, FEMA sucks!!

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Originally Posted by cpayne5
Show me where it says that the agency will take "preemtive action".

FEMA looks at what *might* happen, then reacts to it when it *does* happen. It does not act on what might happen. That is the local authorities job. It has been since day one.
EXACTLY!

If FEMA's job was to babysit everyone and make sure they're ready for any possible disasters that might happen someday, they'd need a branch office in EVERY town in the nation. Could you imagine how much money that would waste?

Their job is to help after disasters occur. It's the responsibility of each local government to prepare for emergencies.

Think of FEMA as an ambulance. You can't blame an ambulance driver for not arriving in time for a heart attack victim when the person who died sat around drinking beer and eating cheese-in-a-can on everything. They're an emergency response agency, not a babysitter.
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Old 06-16-2006, 03:36 PM   #81
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Re: Simply put, FEMA sucks!!

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Originally Posted by Buster
EXACTLY!

If FEMA's job was to babysit everyone and make sure they're ready for any possible disasters that might happen someday, they'd need a branch office in EVERY town in the nation. Could you imagine how much money that would waste?

Their job is to help after disasters occur. It's the responsibility of each local government to prepare for emergencies.

Think of FEMA as an ambulance. You can't blame an ambulance driver for not arriving in time for a heart attack victim when the person who died sat around drinking beer and eating cheese-in-a-can on everything. They're an emergency response agency, not a babysitter.
Wait a minute. Are you guys actually defending FEMA ? Did you read the article ? And are you actually asking how much money that it would waste to "babysit" ? How about not wasting or defrauding taxpayers' money ? to the count of 1.4 billion dollars. How about that for wasting a little money ?
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Old 06-16-2006, 03:57 PM   #82
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Re: Simply put, FEMA sucks!!

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Originally Posted by cpayne5
Show me where it says that the agency will take "preemtive action".

FEMA looks at what *might* happen, then reacts to it when it *does* happen. It does not act on what might happen. That is the local authorities job. It has been since day one.
you said they don't do preparation and that it's not mentioned anywhere, even though it's been in their job description for 3 years. I didn't say anything about pre-emptive action in that post you were replying to. When its pointed out that they do do prepartory work, you decide to throw up some weird strawman instead.

and yes, I do think someone should have tried harder to convince the locals or the people that an evacuation was necessary instead of staring at an oncoming train and throwing their hands up. It would have been in everyone's best economic interests.
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Old 06-16-2006, 04:07 PM   #83
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Re: Simply put, FEMA sucks!!

for the sake of arguement, femas job is to react to any and all diasters within the united states. well , then what the hell took so long to get to those people? it took w almost a full week to make an appearance in new orleans, and look whats going on with the funding. this is a case of gross mis management starting at the top the whole way to the bottom. everyone, including one george w bush shares the blame. how mayor nagens got re elected is beyond belief. but then again, one marion berry also won after smoking crack. so as the saying goes, only in america
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Old 06-16-2006, 04:07 PM   #84
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Re: Simply put, FEMA sucks!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Buster
EXACTLY!

If FEMA's job was to babysit everyone and make sure they're ready for any possible disasters that might happen someday, they'd need a branch office in EVERY town in the nation. Could you imagine how much money that would waste?

Their job is to help after disasters occur. It's the responsibility of each local government to prepare for emergencies.

Think of FEMA as an ambulance. You can't blame an ambulance driver for not arriving in time for a heart attack victim when the person who died sat around drinking beer and eating cheese-in-a-can on everything. They're an emergency response agency, not a babysitter.

yeah, except that analogy is about 99% wrong for the actual situation that occured :P

they do preparation and they did land people in NO before the storm hit, but the logistics were fscked, so the ground crews could only sit and wait when they should have been up and running.

Hurricanes usually come with some warning, and FEMA does try to land people beforehand. That would mean that your "heart attack" was pre-scheduled and the ambulance was already sitting in the driveway at the time, but the driver forget his first aid kit and lost his car keys.

And I don't see anyone mention babysitting outside of you just now.
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Old 06-16-2006, 04:22 PM   #85
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Re: Simply put, FEMA sucks!!

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Originally Posted by dmek25
how mayor nagens got re elected is beyond belief. but then again, one marion berry also won after smoking crack. so as the saying goes, only in america
Low voter turnout. That ALWAYS favors incumbents, no matter how incompetent they are.
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Old 06-16-2006, 08:47 PM   #86
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Re: Simply put, FEMA sucks!!

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Originally Posted by That Guy
FRPLG:

you went point for point, and except for one issue, every single one contains you making (wrong) assumptions about what i actually said. thus when you're trying to call me out on things i didn't say but you think i did, it's a bit hard to take.
Are you saying what you said wasn't what you meant or are you saying I don't understand English? If you are going to say I am making incorrect assumptions you ought to point out what they are. Otherwise it is impossible for me to even comprehend what you are trying to say.
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Old 06-17-2006, 12:51 AM   #87
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Re: Simply put, FEMA sucks!!

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Are you saying what you said wasn't what you meant or are you saying I don't understand English? If you are going to say I am making incorrect assumptions you ought to point out what they are. Otherwise it is impossible for me to even comprehend what you are trying to say.
alright, i'll get to the others in a bit since i'm working on some code, but we can start with where you said (3-4 times) that I blamed Bush for the entire thing, when in fact, what i actually said was I blame bush for appointing an inept guy to a somewhat important cabinet position (and nothing more). Though I did also think he could have done more to convince people an evacuation would be a good idea. (a president would lose some small amount of face if he had to overrule a governor and order an unneeded evac, but a governor ordering one, even if unneeded, wouldn't be a big deal.)

Some people have commented that every administration engages in cronyism, and that's great, but that doesn't make it right or absolve them from blame when it blows up in their face.
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Old 06-17-2006, 03:52 AM   #88
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Re: Simply put, FEMA sucks!!

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I'd say the drastic mismanagement that got a lot of people killed unnecessarily was pretty extreme too, since, you know, their entire job is to prevent that.
This was a direct response to a statement about FEMA. FEMA had nothing to do with the evacuation or the deaths of "millions" of people. They just didn't as several others point out without rebuttal.
actually no it wasn't, it was a statement about how losing money wasn't the worst part of the katrina experience, since the inability to support recovery logistics for days afterwards didn't exist even with all the forwarning. And you're use of "millions" is pure hyperbole and another lame attempt to try and denegrate my post with something I never actually said or in any way implied.



Like I mentioned in the previous post, saying (multiple) times that I blamed the entire thing on bush (when I only actually blamed him for putting an idiot in charge) is another example of you putting words in my mouth and exaggerating claims. I did also say I think he could have done more, but that would also take extremely large assumptions to think I laid all the blame at his feet. Especially when I had already mentioned that the mayor, governor, and mr brown were partly responsible (so how could it all possibly be pinned on Bush?)


Assuming I'm a democrat cause I dared to say anything bad about Mr. GW. (not that I care, but while we're doing this retardedd exercise, it's another point).


Quote:
Quote:
or that they should have a civil engineer or logistics guy in charge of FEMA instead of some clueless crony.
This goes along the path of blaming FEMA for the actual deaths associated with the Hurricane. Unless of course you meant an engineer would have helped somehow manage the money doling out. I think you weren't meaning that though.
look at that, you're assuming I blamed FEMA for making the hurricane happen. What I actually said is, someone with a clue as to how to do his job should be put in charge. The people on the ground couldn't work cause the logistics were screwed up. Brown learned from a reporter things were bad. That's stupid, and he should have been in the loop and on top of what his organization was doing. I can't believe that got so misread, cause it seems pretty straight forward.


Quote:
Blaming Bush or FEMA for the evacuation situation is like blaming Bush for the pothole in front of your house.
please show me where I said "the evacuation is all Bush's fault" cause I couldn't see it. You, once again, are assuming i'm blaming him for more than I actually am (which i've already described twice above now).


then you and cpayne went on to insist FEMA does NO PREPAREATION WORK AT ALL, which i've shown is completely untrue and has been for at least 3 years now (and in case someone is wondering, check wikipedia or fema's website for proof).


I did misspeak when I said FEMA should have taken over the evacuation, but you could of pointed that out without being a j*ck*ss about it. But if you want to say I have no clue, that's fine I guess, but since you didn't understand FEMA's actual role either, that means you're in the same boat (stones, glass house; pot, kettle, black; etc).
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