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Breaking News: Barry Bonds Hits 756

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Old 08-08-2007, 02:15 PM   #31
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Re: Breaking News: Barry Bonds Hits 756

Quote:
Originally Posted by jdlea View Post
From an article on ESPN Insider.

Buster makes some very good points.
You have incredible foresight.



I wish they hadn't "fixed" it so he'd hit it at home. I wish they'd just let him play and let it happen when and where it would have. I would've LOVED to see it happen at Dodger Stadium.

But no, the big juiced monster would have his feelings hurt if he's booed, which would happen EVERYWHERE except for SF.

It doesn't matter. On paper, Bonds may be ahead of Hammerin' Hank, but in my mind, Aaron is still the "Home Run King". He didn't need to cheat to achieve his greatness. Bonds, although always a jerk, WAS a great player before he decided to juice, but without the steroids, there is no way he'd be anywhere near 756. Bonds was arrogant enough to say there is no controversy with his record.


Barry Bonds:

1986 PIT 16
1987 PIT 25
1988 PIT 24
1989 PIT 19
1990 PIT 33
1991 PIT 25
1992 PIT 34
1993 SF 46
1994 SF 37
1995 SF 33
1996 SF 42
1997 SF 40
1998 SF 37
1999 SF 34
2000 SF 49*
2001 SF 73*
2002 SF 46*
2003 SF 45*
2004 SF 45*

2005 SF 5
2006 SF 26
2007 SF 22

* = We know what happened in these years.

Beginning of career --> End of career

-->


Hank Aaron:

1954 Braves 13
1955 Braves 27
1956 Braves 26
1957 Braves 44
1958 Braves 30
1959 Braves 39
1960 Braves 40
1961 Braves 34
1962 Braves 45
1963 Braves 44
1964 Braves 24
1965 Braves 32
1966 Braves 44
1967 Braves 39
1968 Braves 29
1969 Braves 44
1970 Braves 38
1971 Braves 47
1972 Braves 34
1973 Braves 40
1974 Braves 20
1975 Brewers 12
1976 Brewers 10

Beginning of career --> End of career

-->





Notice Aaron's consistency throughout his career as opposed to Bonds'.

But wait...

MLB Credits Hank Aaron With 50 Lost Home Runs
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Old 08-08-2007, 02:19 PM   #32
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Re: Breaking News: Barry Bonds Hits 756

I believe Sheffield and Giambi also testified in front of a grand jury (among others)

Baseball has started (finally) testing for steroids and taking action against players who test positive. Several players have tested positive and been punished, but Bonds has not been one of them.
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Old 08-08-2007, 02:24 PM   #33
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Re: Breaking News: Barry Bonds Hits 756

Quote:
Originally Posted by Buster
It doesn't matter. On paper, Bonds may be ahead of Hammerin' Hank, but in my mind, Aaron is still the "Home Run King". He didn't need to cheat to achieve his greatness.
I heard Mike Schmidt (I think) once say that if the drugs and supplements that are available now were available when he was playing he is certain he would have taken them. I wonder if Aaron would have done the same.

But anyhow, one thing that really ticks me off is all these people saying what a great person and player Hank Aaron is/was when I'm sure many of these same people are the same ones sending him hate mail and death threats because he was an African-Amercian shattering the treasured record of Babe Ruth (who was no saint himself)
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Old 08-08-2007, 02:29 PM   #34
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Re: Breaking News: Barry Bonds Hits 756

Quote:
Originally Posted by Buster View Post
You have incredible foresight.



I wish they hadn't "fixed" it so he'd hit it at home. I wish they'd just let him play and let it happen when and where it would have. I would've LOVED to see it happen at Dodger Stadium.

But no, the big juiced monster would have his feelings hurt if he's booed, which would happen EVERYWHERE except for SF.

It doesn't matter. On paper, Bonds may be ahead of Hammerin' Hank, but in my mind, Aaron is still the "Home Run King". He didn't need to cheat to achieve his greatness. Bonds, although always a jerk, WAS a great player before he decided to juice, but without the steroids, there is no way he'd be anywhere near 756. Bonds was arrogant enough to say there is no controversy with his record.


Barry Bonds:

1986 PIT 16
1987 PIT 25
1988 PIT 24
1989 PIT 19
1990 PIT 33
1991 PIT 25
1992 PIT 34
1993 SF 46
1994 SF 37
1995 SF 33
1996 SF 42
1997 SF 40
1998 SF 37
1999 SF 34
2000 SF 49*
2001 SF 73*
2002 SF 46*
2003 SF 45*
2004 SF 45*

2005 SF 5
2006 SF 26
2007 SF 22

* = We know what happened in these years.

Beginning of career --> End of career

-->


Hank Aaron:

1954 Braves 13
1955 Braves 27
1956 Braves 26
1957 Braves 44
1958 Braves 30
1959 Braves 39
1960 Braves 40
1961 Braves 34
1962 Braves 45
1963 Braves 44
1964 Braves 24
1965 Braves 32
1966 Braves 44
1967 Braves 39
1968 Braves 29
1969 Braves 44
1970 Braves 38
1971 Braves 47
1972 Braves 34
1973 Braves 40
1974 Braves 20
1975 Brewers 12
1976 Brewers 10

Beginning of career --> End of career

-->





Notice Aaron's consistency throughout his career as opposed to Bonds'.

But wait...

MLB Credits Hank Aaron With 50 Lost Home Runs
Funny link.
Did you see the sportscenter section when they put the old Bonds head up next to the new bonds head? The space between his eyes and the side of his head doubled at least!
How do we honestly know that Bonds didn't take steriods in 93? Or even 90?
Look at his stats:
86- .223, 16hr
87- .261, 25hr
88- .283, 24hr
89- .248, 19hr
90- .301, 33hr?
91- .292, 25hr
92- .311, 34hr
93- .336, 46hr?
You can see a significant change in his numbers from the 89 to 90 seasons, as you can see from 92 to 93 seasons. In fact, in 93, he hit 12 more homers than his career high, and hit 25 points higher than his career high. Also, his stolen bases dropped significantly in 93 to 29.
We talk about the massive size of Bonds that we noticed in 2000, but there are several players that take roids that don't get cartoonish. Bonds could have started in 1990, or 1993.
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Old 08-08-2007, 02:34 PM   #35
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Re: Breaking News: Barry Bonds Hits 756

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Originally Posted by SmootSmack View Post
I believe Sheffield and Giambi also testified in front of a grand jury (among others)
I didn't say that no one other than Bonds testified. There have been a few...and Giambi admitted to taking steriods. Fact is, you don't go in front of a grand jury unless you're pretty darn guilty.

Quote:
Baseball has started (finally) testing for steroids and taking action against players who test positive. Several players have tested positive and been punished, but Bonds has not been one of them.
Come on, you know that's a joke as much as I do.
I already explained, that 1- "the clear", which is what Bonds has been accused of taking, is not detectable on drug tests, 2- why is it, only small time players got caught?
I guess Sosa and Canseco never took roids either since they never tested positive right?
Canseco admitted taking steriods his whole career, and he finally retired in 2001 and had 0, count em, 0 positive tests, so what does that tell you?
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Old 08-08-2007, 02:58 PM   #36
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Re: Breaking News: Barry Bonds Hits 756

It tells me baseball should have done a better job testing and holding players accountable prior to the last four years or so. But baseball needed the Sosas, Bonds, and McGwires of the world.

It's really too bad that there are several people that don't realize how great a player Bonds is without the record. This isn't some fluke Brady Anderson-esque player.

I'd rather it have been Ken Griffey Jr. personally that broke the record. But it's not, and life goes on.
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Old 08-08-2007, 02:59 PM   #37
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Re: Breaking News: Barry Bonds Hits 756

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Originally Posted by wilsowilso View Post
Bonds cheated. He is mean and spiteful. I can't wait until he goes away. Hopefully A Rod can break this joke of a new record.
How do you know A-Rod is clean? I'm not saying he's not, but how do you know?
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Old 08-08-2007, 03:06 PM   #38
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Re: Breaking News: Barry Bonds Hits 756

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Originally Posted by SmootSmack View Post
It tells me baseball should have done a better job testing and holding players accountable prior to the last four years or so. But baseball needed the Sosas, Bonds, and McGwires of the world.
See, I disagree with that. While McGwire and Sosa brought baseball back, it was recovering without those guys, they just brought it back quicker. Kind of ironic that they seemed to "pump steroids" into baseball to get it back, and they likely took steroids.
But I absolutely agree with you about baseball...they should have tested a long time ago. They turned a blind eye to it, and i feel they even encouraged it.

Quote:
It's really too bad that there are several people that don't realize how great a player Bonds is without the record. This isn't some fluke Brady Anderson-esque player.
But we really don't know when he started taking it. Is his entire career tainted? Look at the numbers I posted above. Had it not been for him becoming the hulk and making it so glaringly obvious that he took performance enhancing drugs, he would go down in history as one of the best. But he ruined his own legacy.

Quote:
I'd rather it have been Ken Griffey Jr. personally that broke the record. But it's not, and life goes on.
Me too, but at this point, how do we know he didn't take steroids too?
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Old 08-08-2007, 03:07 PM   #39
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Re: Breaking News: Barry Bonds Hits 756

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Originally Posted by SmootSmack View Post
How do you know A-Rod is clean? I'm not saying he's not, but how do you know?
Because he's not mean to the media
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Old 08-08-2007, 03:07 PM   #40
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Re: Breaking News: Barry Bonds Hits 756

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How do you know A-Rod is clean? I'm not saying he's not, but how do you know?

No one knows. That is what steroids has done for the game.
You have to use common sense as best as you can, and right now, Griffey and A-Rod are not on the guilty list, but using even the smallest of logic, Bonds is as guilty as they come.
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Old 08-08-2007, 03:25 PM   #41
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Re: Breaking News: Barry Bonds Hits 756

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I'd rather it have been Ken Griffey Jr. personally that broke the record. But it's not, and life goes on.

Me too, but at this point, how do we know he didn't take steroids too?
I think the reason Griffey gets a pass from most people on the steroid issue is because he's been injured so often that his numbers aren't really inflated, but if you look at his career, he shows the basic signs of steroid use. He's far more beefy than when he entered the league and his body began to break down when he started putting on extra body mass.

I'm not saying Jr. is dirty, but it's just funny to me that he's not under the same scrutiny that everyone else is in the steroid era.
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Old 08-08-2007, 03:32 PM   #42
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Re: Breaking News: Barry Bonds Hits 756

Slightly related, seeing as to how Michael Jordan beefed up over the years do you guys think he was juicing?
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Old 08-08-2007, 03:35 PM   #43
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Re: Breaking News: Barry Bonds Hits 756

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Originally Posted by Southpaw View Post
I think the reason Griffey gets a pass from most people on the steroid issue is because he's been injured so often that his numbers aren't really inflated, but if you look at his career, he shows the basic signs of steroid use. He's far more beefy than when he entered the league and his body began to break down when he started putting on extra body mass.

I'm not saying Jr. is dirty, but it's just funny to me that he's not under the same scrutiny that everyone else is in the steroid era.
I agree.
He's not under the scrutiny because he's not going after a hallowed record. Also, no one has point their finger at Griffey like they have at Bonds. Maybe it's cause of Griffey playing in obscurity in Seattle for years, maybe it's cause he's always injured...who knows, but he has not been implicated in any book, or a jokester singing like a canary. Due to that, people feel he's clean. And he may just be. If he took roids, he either did it very quietly and covered all his tracks, or he didn't take them.

What I find interesting is that people are asking why Bonds is being pinpointed. Fact is, Palmiero had his entire career dismissed after his positive test after he testified that he never took steriods period. So why is it OK to push him out of MLB and banish him as a horrible person, but Bonds is exhaulted?
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Old 08-08-2007, 03:37 PM   #44
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Re: Breaking News: Barry Bonds Hits 756

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Originally Posted by Southpaw View Post
I think the reason Griffey gets a pass from most people on the steroid issue is because he's been injured so often that his numbers aren't really inflated, but if you look at his career, he shows the basic signs of steroid use. He's far more beefy than when he entered the league and his body began to break down when he started putting on extra body mass.

I'm not saying Jr. is dirty, but it's just funny to me that he's not under the same scrutiny that everyone else is in the steroid era.
I think that's an interesting point, but I think Griffey has more gotten fat than anything else. I haven't seen him in Under Armour or with his shirt off, but he looks like he's just point on weight because he's at that age where it's harder and harder to stay in shape. I know there are a lot of guys who put on weight once they get north of 30, I would think with a pro athlete it hits you a little bit later.

However, the point you make is very interesting:


Rookie Ken


More recent

Kind of interesting...I don't think he was on the juice, but he's definitely bigger.
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Old 08-08-2007, 03:39 PM   #45
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Re: Breaking News: Barry Bonds Hits 756

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Originally Posted by SmootSmack View Post
Slightly related, seeing as to how Michael Jordan beefed up over the years do you guys think he was juicing?
LOL...that's an absurd arguement even for you SS.

Name me 1 person that pointed their finger at Jordan to taking roids.

ps- Jordan didn't grow to a cartoon like figure at any time, and he did "bulk up" but it was over time, a long time, and still looked similar from his rookie year to his retirement year.
All I can say is WOW SS. Usually you provide valid arguments...but wow.
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