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Update: Wizards Keep Jamison, Arenas

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Old 07-01-2008, 09:21 PM   #31
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re: Update: Wizards Keep Jamison, Arenas

jsarno.,,all due respect but you seem to know nothing about basketball. Before his knee got banged up Arenas was a top 5 guy in the league and considered so rather universally. Simply because you don't like him doesn't make it fact that he is over-rated. My God when healthy he is only behind like 4 guys in the league.
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Old 07-01-2008, 10:35 PM   #32
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re: Update: Wizards Keep Jamison, Arenas

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Davis has already declared himself a free agent. He's not likely to come back to Golden State
Looks like he's coming back home to play for to the Clippers! Iím in a state of shock right now. Can the Clippers actually be trying to win!? Has Donald Sterling lost his mind? Is the world about to end? This must mean something. I mean we are talking about the Clippers here!

ESPN - Davis verbally agrees to go to Clippers, leave Warriors - NBA
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Old 07-01-2008, 10:46 PM   #33
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re: Update: Wizards Keep Jamison, Arenas

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jsarno.,,all due respect but you seem to know nothing about basketball. Before his knee got banged up Arenas was a top 5 guy in the league and considered so rather universally. Simply because you don't like him doesn't make it fact that he is over-rated. My God when healthy he is only behind like 4 guys in the league.
I have nothing against him. I am finding a lot the comments funny here. Why do people instantly think I hate him? Why do people assume I think he sucks? I have said nothing of the sort, in fact I actually said he was a good player.
You are proving my point that he is overrated saying he was a top 5 player. Just cause you score points doesn't make you a top 5 player especially considering you shoot a miserable 41%. I could easy rank 15 or more players higher than Arenas. But I understand that you have strong feelings to the opposite.

Clearly I have offended people here. It seems any time an opinion is opposite of someone's opinion here they get all offended and overreact making comments about things that weren't even said or implied. Why bother having any discussions at all if everyone thought alike?
I honestly don't know why I bother. I spend a lot of time giving stats and researching facts for people to ignore them. Shame on me.
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Old 07-01-2008, 11:29 PM   #34
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re: Update: Wizards Keep Jamison, Arenas

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I have nothing against him. I am finding a lot the comments funny here. Why do people instantly think I hate him? Why do people assume I think he sucks? I have said nothing of the sort, in fact I actually said he was a good player.
You are proving my point that he is overrated saying he was a top 5 player. Just cause you score points doesn't make you a top 5 player especially considering you shoot a miserable 41%. I could easy rank 15 or more players higher than Arenas. But I understand that you have strong feelings to the opposite.

Clearly I have offended people here. It seems any time an opinion is opposite of someone's opinion here they get all offended and overreact making comments about things that weren't even said or implied. Why bother having any discussions at all if everyone thought alike?
I honestly don't know why I bother. I spend a lot of time giving stats and researching facts for people to ignore them. Shame on me.

Well everyone appreciates you cutting and pasting the first page of Arenas's NBA.com bio, and then throwing in adjectives like horrible and disgusting to describe his career shooting percentage, accusing people of only looking at stats when you are the one removing one relatively uninmportant statistic (for a shooting guard at least) from context and then using it to evaluate the entire impact of a game-changing scorer, I think your posts would go over better if you injected a little nuance.

You back yourself into these positions and someone becomes either the absolute greatest ever (Favre for example) or a complete disgrace to humanity (Young). There's never any middle ground. And then when someone disagrees with you you go and pick one stat you think buttresses your point and hammer it with loud language until people get annoyed, at which point you call them fart-sniffers who can't handle the truth.

Personally, as a Wizards fan I tend to sympathize with the argument that Arenas is overrated, but certainly not when it is presented the way it has been.
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Old 07-01-2008, 11:29 PM   #35
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re: Update: Wizards Keep Jamison, Arenas

I'm glad we re-upped Jamison, dude has been consistently good for us ever since we got him in '04. If Arenas decided to leave I wouldn't be terribly upset either, it would save us some salary cap space, if we could get a guy who not only takes good shots but can consistently spread the ball around I'd be happier, but if he stays I wouldn't be too upset either. I just want him to be healthy, injuries have dismantled the team the past few years and if we could just get our Big Three together we would have a better chance.
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Old 07-02-2008, 12:20 AM   #36
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re: Update: Wizards Keep Jamison, Arenas

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I know you won't believe me, but I have never been a big Pierce fan. He's a thug. I can appreciate what he did for the C's, but he's probably my 5th or 6th favorite player on the celtics.
You keep ignoring my comment of you can't have your best two players being poor shooters. They brought in KG and Allen, both are good shooters.

Your arguments are sounding terrible by the way, and usually you're better that that. Like assuming I said that Arenas was "disgusting". The FG% is disgusting, and since Arenas only offers 5.5 assists per game he's not the best choice to create opportunities. I even said he was a good player. You choose not to listen. Can't say it surprises me, no one on this site ventures outside of their own thoughts. So more power to you...signing arenas for 120mil for 6 years is great idea...might as well not even play and GIVE the Wiz the trophy. Congrats!



You are assuming he's MY BOY...yet again you're not listening to black and white. Have a nice day. Let me know when you decide to pay attention.
First off, I assumed Pierce is "your boy" because you're a big Celtics fan, and he's been your best player for years (save for this season when KG took that role). So I thought it was a pretty valid assumption that you liked Pierce.

Second, I never said you didn't like Arenas, I just took exception to referring to his shooting as "disgusting" when your best player is all of 2% better.

Third, I never said it was a good idea to sign Arenas to 6yr $120M deal. I want him on the team, but not necessarily as a full time PG. I almost think he's better as a combo-guard style player. ESPN - Scouting breakdown: Arenas is a unique combo - NBA At 6-4 (same height as D-Wade), with all that speed and some elevation too, I almost think we'd be better with Arenas playing primarily 2 guard.

The Celtics deserved their championship. Not trying to say otherwise. But your argument about shooting percentage is semi-flawed. It varies from team to team as far as "best" players are concerned. Outside shooters like Gilbert are inevitably going to have a lower shooting % than post players like Garnett. If Gilbert was a 7 foot tall PF/center and shot 42%, then I'd have a big problem. Also, Jamison is a smaller PF, and shoots a lot of outside shots. Again, Jamison had the 3rd most double-doubles in the league, is a great leader, and obviously consistent. As it's been pointed out, the sample of games when Jamison, Gil, and Butler have been healthy together is small, but we had the best record in the conference for half a season when they were.
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Old 07-02-2008, 01:24 AM   #37
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re: Update: Wizards Keep Jamison, Arenas

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Originally Posted by jsarno View Post
I have nothing against him. I am finding a lot the comments funny here. Why do people instantly think I hate him? Why do people assume I think he sucks? I have said nothing of the sort, in fact I actually said he was a good player.
You are proving my point that he is overrated saying he was a top 5 player. Just cause you score points doesn't make you a top 5 player especially considering you shoot a miserable 41%. I could easy rank 15 or more players higher than Arenas. But I understand that you have strong feelings to the opposite.

Clearly I have offended people here. It seems any time an opinion is opposite of someone's opinion here they get all offended and overreact making comments about things that weren't even said or implied. Why bother having any discussions at all if everyone thought alike?
I honestly don't know why I bother. I spend a lot of time giving stats and researching facts for people to ignore them. Shame on me.
Just to clarify, career FG%: Kobe 45.3%, Gilbert 42.7%, D-Wade 48.1%, Pierce 44.2%.

Career 3-PT%: Kobe 34%, Gilbert 36%, D-Wade 25.8%, Pierce 36.3%.

Not a lot of difference between the league MVP, Gilbert, the best player similar to Gilbert, and your best player. Since shooting % is so vital and all...
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Old 07-02-2008, 05:19 AM   #38
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re: Update: Wizards Keep Jamison, Arenas

127 million for 6 years severely cripples the Wiz for the foreseeable future. He's not worth max money (only a handful of players are)... coming off two knee surgeries and he hasn't shown the propensity to play D.

Bad offer by management. I'm sure Abe told EG to make it so.
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Old 07-02-2008, 08:50 AM   #39
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re: Update: Wizards Keep Jamison, Arenas

your stats are stupid jsarno. calling jamison and arenas piss poor shooters is retarded and totally untrue.

i didn't bother getting involved because i'd rather not engage in more arguments with brick walls, but all that idiotic arguments get you are eroded credibility.

like when you bring up "i told you so"'s after the celts win from months ago, but never bring up the "i was wrongs", it just seems silly and beneath you.

not trying to hate, but if you're wondering why these threads go down like this, that's why. we have plenty of other people who have used the "i'm right and you're stupid/a fart-sniffer/etc" and it never really leads to much beyond frustration on both sides.
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Old 07-02-2008, 11:22 AM   #40
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re: Update: Wizards Keep Jamison, Arenas

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127 million for 6 years severely cripples the Wiz for the foreseeable future. He's not worth max money (only a handful of players are)... coming off two knee surgeries and he hasn't shown the propensity to play D.

Bad offer by management. I'm sure Abe told EG to make it so.
What would you do?
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Old 07-02-2008, 12:11 PM   #41
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re: Update: Wizards Keep Jamison, Arenas

being a sixer fan, hopefully i can be alittle more objective. Arenas is top 5 talent. the wizards keep making the mistake of trying to make him a point guard. they signed Jamison in order to show Arenas they are trying to win. i think they should of let him walk. for he couldn't cover me or you, on his best day. i laugh at the comparison between Pierce and Arenas, for they are very similar
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Old 07-02-2008, 12:13 PM   #42
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re: Update: Wizards Keep Jamison, Arenas

After watching the Celtics win it all, FG % is a joke. You should care how well a player plays defense that is what won it for Boston.
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Old 07-02-2008, 07:44 PM   #43
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re: Update: Wizards Keep Jamison, Arenas

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What would you do?
Since GS offered their max for Gilbert (and if they really really want him back), I'd wait till Gilbert signs our max and then offer a S&T for Ellis and Biedrins. I wouldn't do it if I were the Warriors, but hey... no telling how much they want 0 back.

Even before it got this far, my thinking was to scrap it all before it happened. I don't think even a healthy big 3 gets us past the first round in any playoff (even though they're good enough to pull of W's against any team in the regular season).

About a month ago, I proposed a bunch of different scenarios before the draft happened (on a hoops board) that would have netted us the two things I'd rather see the organization have- a pass first, defensive-oriented PG and a low-post, defensive banger to man the 4 spot.

That would have meant letting AJ walk for nothing and making a run at EB post draft (either S&T with the Clips or offering a long-term deal to make his decision to opt out a bit easier... I didn't think he'd opt out this easily and it's a good bet he was in contact with Baron before doing so). How about offering the #18 pick and filler (OPEC?) to Memphis for Lowry? They've got a glut at point, with Conley, Critt, Stoudemire and now Mayo (who may switch between both guard positions as it calls for). Lowry's probably worth more than the 18 on its own, but with the number of teams needing PGs drafting ahead of us and the number of quality PGs in the draft, I don't think they would have had a better deal than ours. While not as good defensively, I also believe Udrih and Calderon are much better fits for an offense like ours (and would have cost much less, thereby giving us the space to grab a big man elsewhere).

With the money you aren't blowing on AJ and Gilbert, the team has flexibility for the future. With these two contracts, I think we're pretty much saddled with this team for the foreseeable future. I'm glad the big 3 have put the Wiz in the playoffs three consecutive seasons, but the East is getting better. Youth, talent and athleticism are permeating through upside teams like the Hawks, Sixers, Bulls, Heat and Magic. I'm not even including the perennial teams, such as the C's and Pistons next season. The Raps now have Bosh and O'Neal in the post (with Calderon probably resigning here, they've got a pretty sick squad). The Bucks have a pretty solid Big 3 of their own now, with Jefferson. Long-term, New Jersey is the team to watch out for in the East. Grabbing YJL and shedding Jefferson's contract is genius... With that excellent draft they just had, plus Devin running point and LeBron moving in within a few years, how can we expect to keep up?
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Old 07-02-2008, 07:57 PM   #44
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re: Update: Wizards Keep Jamison, Arenas

Another context is to look at what the Clippers just paid to what we did. Rumors are floating that Brand may be looking to take less (around 13.5 per) to get a long-term deal to stay in LA, now that Baron is here. They're paying EB and BD about 26.5 million per year, combined. If Gilbert signs the sheet, the Wiz are now on the hook for 33.5 million per year. Personally, I'd rather have the former plus the extra 7 in cap space than Gilbert and AJ. You've shored up your post defense with Brand, added a pretty solid replacement at point and you have a nice MLE to play with every season.

This doesn't mean the Wizards could have pulled this off... but it's just a comparison to see what we're offering our own to stay vs. how the team can improve now (and in the future).

Of course, this theory is all blown to hell if EB jumps to Philly for a grip.
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Old 07-02-2008, 11:32 PM   #45
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re: Update: Wizards Keep Jamison, Arenas

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Since GS offered their max for Gilbert (and if they really really want him back), I'd wait till Gilbert signs our max and then offer a S&T for Ellis and Biedrins. I wouldn't do it if I were the Warriors, but hey... no telling how much they want 0 back.

Even before it got this far, my thinking was to scrap it all before it happened. I don't think even a healthy big 3 gets us past the first round in any playoff (even though they're good enough to pull of W's against any team in the regular season).

About a month ago, I proposed a bunch of different scenarios before the draft happened (on a hoops board) that would have netted us the two things I'd rather see the organization have- a pass first, defensive-oriented PG and a low-post, defensive banger to man the 4 spot.

That would have meant letting AJ walk for nothing and making a run at EB post draft (either S&T with the Clips or offering a long-term deal to make his decision to opt out a bit easier... I didn't think he'd opt out this easily and it's a good bet he was in contact with Baron before doing so). How about offering the #18 pick and filler (OPEC?) to Memphis for Lowry? They've got a glut at point, with Conley, Critt, Stoudemire and now Mayo (who may switch between both guard positions as it calls for). Lowry's probably worth more than the 18 on its own, but with the number of teams needing PGs drafting ahead of us and the number of quality PGs in the draft, I don't think they would have had a better deal than ours. While not as good defensively, I also believe Udrih and Calderon are much better fits for an offense like ours (and would have cost much less, thereby giving us the space to grab a big man elsewhere).

With the money you aren't blowing on AJ and Gilbert, the team has flexibility for the future. With these two contracts, I think we're pretty much saddled with this team for the foreseeable future. I'm glad the big 3 have put the Wiz in the playoffs three consecutive seasons, but the East is getting better. Youth, talent and athleticism are permeating through upside teams like the Hawks, Sixers, Bulls, Heat and Magic. I'm not even including the perennial teams, such as the C's and Pistons next season. The Raps now have Bosh and O'Neal in the post (with Calderon probably resigning here, they've got a pretty sick squad). The Bucks have a pretty solid Big 3 of their own now, with Jefferson. Long-term, New Jersey is the team to watch out for in the East. Grabbing YJL and shedding Jefferson's contract is genius... With that excellent draft they just had, plus Devin running point and LeBron moving in within a few years, how can we expect to keep up?
Good points. This could end up looking great for the Wizards and Arenas. With the Wizards showing their not "cheap" by offering the max and Arenas showing he's not greedy by "settling" for less and then freeing them up to make some other moves. Posey maybe? Or it could totally blow up in their face.

Either way. The Wizards biggest problem is that how they're building the team around the big 3. First and foremost has been their apparent refusal to get a point guard. A true point guard than can lead the offense. They should have kept Steve Blake in my opinion. But even still, I don't know that I'll ever understand taking Pecherov when guys like Rondo, Rodriguez, Williams, and Lowry were still there.

I'm biased but I think they should give Arroyo a look.

Let me ask you this, do you take an "Eramus James" on Shaun Livingston?
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