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Update: Wizards Keep Jamison, Arenas

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Old 07-03-2008, 12:22 AM   #46
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re: Update: Wizards Keep Jamison, Arenas

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Originally Posted by SmootSmack View Post
Good points. This could end up looking great for the Wizards and Arenas. With the Wizards showing their not "cheap" by offering the max and Arenas showing he's not greedy by "settling" for less and then freeing them up to make some other moves. Posey maybe? Or it could totally blow up in their face.

Either way. The Wizards biggest problem is that how they're building the team around the big 3. First and foremost has been their apparent refusal to get a point guard. A true point guard than can lead the offense. They should have kept Steve Blake in my opinion. But even still, I don't know that I'll ever understand taking Pecherov when guys like Rondo, Rodriguez, Williams, and Lowry were still there.

I'm biased but I think they should give Arroyo a look.

Let me ask you this, do you take an "Eramus James" on Shaun Livingston?
I can only hope your first paragraph comes true. Knowing the quirkiness of Gil, they probably offered him the max hoping it was just a sign of gratitude that he would kindly reject. Seeing these vets take less to win a ring seems to rub off on some of the opting out lately and we can only hope Gil sees the same thing.

I totally agree with you re: Blake. He was solid for Portland last season- excellent A:TO ratio and that's all you can really ask for in a PG. Arroyo ain't a bad option. The names you listed that we passed on for OPEC make me wince.

I loved Livingston out of high school- thought he'd change the game at his position. If we're offering Erasmus James money, I'd take a flyer... but that last knee injury looked career-ending.
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Old 07-03-2008, 01:54 AM   #47
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re: Update: Wizards Keep Jamison, Arenas

I don't think the Wiz had much choice with Gil. He's one of the more popular athletes in the area and sells tickets. If they don't max him they look cheap and ungrateful. I like Gil a lot as a player but in the end I don't think the big 3 gets this team anywhere really. Thy have no defense. None. And it kills them every night. Missing out on Thibedeaux(sp?) may have been the biggest blunder they have had. Do Jordan and Grunfeld really not get along that much to make him quit after like 2 days and go to Boston and teach them how to win with D?
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Old 07-03-2008, 02:59 AM   #48
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re: Update: Wizards Keep Jamison, Arenas

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Missing out on Thibedeaux(sp?) may have been the biggest blunder they have had. Do Jordan and Grunfeld really not get along that much to make him quit after like 2 days and go to Boston and teach them how to win with D?
I'm not sure what really happened there... I think there may have been some awkwardness when Thibs came in while the rest of EJ's staff hadn't been extended beyond the season. After the finals, I can see what Grunfeld saw- he's probably going to be a really successful head coach soon.
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Old 07-03-2008, 12:24 PM   #49
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re: Update: Wizards Keep Jamison, Arenas

I think Gil will be staying.

The other team looking at him was the Warriors. They lost Baron Davis to the Clippers but are close to signing and paying out the wazoo for Elton Brand. They can't get Brand AND Arenas.

The Bullets will be keeping him. I'm glad because he's my favorite NBA player and I couldn't stomach seeing him on another team.
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Old 07-03-2008, 12:26 PM   #50
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re: Update: Wizards Keep Jamison, Arenas

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Good points. This could end up looking great for the Wizards and Arenas. With the Wizards showing their not "cheap" by offering the max and Arenas showing he's not greedy by "settling" for less and then freeing them up to make some other moves. Posey maybe? Or it could totally blow up in their face.

Either way. The Wizards biggest problem is that how they're building the team around the big 3. First and foremost has been their apparent refusal to get a point guard. A true point guard than can lead the offense. They should have kept Steve Blake in my opinion. But even still, I don't know that I'll ever understand taking Pecherov when guys like Rondo, Rodriguez, Williams, and Lowry were still there.

I'm biased but I think they should give Arroyo a look.

Let me ask you this, do you take an "Eramus James" on Shaun Livingston?
Blake would be good here but they should've kept Larry Hughes. True, his career has gone down the toilet since he left, but when he was in Washington, he and Gilbert were a GREAT combo.

I'm glad the team let Cleveland overpay for him though, or Caron may not be on the team (financially it would be tough to have the "Big 4").
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Old 07-03-2008, 12:36 PM   #51
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re: Update: Wizards Keep Jamison, Arenas

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The wizards are VERY athletic, and quite frankly, fun to watch, but they need a key player that can hit 50% of his shots.
Oh really, like the Celts?

Career FG%

Garnett: .494
Pierce: .464
Allen: .446

Last season:
Garnett: .539 (which is pretty ridiculous)
Pierce: .464
Allen: .445

Now, I see your point, but based on your assumptions that a player's career FG% suggests what he will do going forward, the Celts probably shouldn't have bothered acquiring both Allen and Garnett because they should have expected to have all of their guys below .500 FG% and, by your logic, not have won an NBA title.
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Old 07-03-2008, 01:07 PM   #52
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re: Update: Wizards Keep Jamison, Arenas

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Oh really, like the Celts?

Career FG%

Garnett: .494
Pierce: .464
Allen: .446

Last season:
Garnett: .539 (which is pretty ridiculous)
Pierce: .464
Allen: .445

Now, I see your point, but based on your assumptions that a player's career FG% suggests what he will do going forward, the Celts probably shouldn't have bothered acquiring both Allen and Garnett because they should have expected to have all of their guys below .500 FG% and, by your logic, not have won an NBA title.
well, the problem is FG% varies widely between 3 point shooters and guys hiding under the basket. i mean, shaq is a .581 shooter, but he couldn't make a 3 to save his life, and often gets laughed at for his career .524% on free throws.

gil has a lower fg%, but i don't see how anyone could possibly call him a worse shooter when he can go 3/10 from his own backcourt.

that argument is bogus and dead in my eyes. i'll need to see something that's a bit more logical to prove he can't shoot.
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Old 07-03-2008, 01:17 PM   #53
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re: Update: Wizards Keep Jamison, Arenas

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well, the problem is FG% varies widely between 3 point shooters and guys hiding under the basket. i mean, shaq is a .581 shooter, but he couldn't make a 3 to save his life, and often gets laughed at for his career .524% on free throws.

gil has a lower fg%, but i don't see how anyone could possibly call him a worse shooter when he can go 3/10 from his own backcourt.

that argument is bogus and dead in my eyes. i'll need to see something that's a bit more logical to prove he can't shoot.
I recognize this and, to your point, there's no way that KG is a better shooter than either Pierce or Allen (which demonstrates the ridiculousness of attempting to use FG% to evaluate a player), but I was merely trying to show him that, based on his own argument, one could make the case that the Celts made a bad move by grabbing 2 guys with a FG% below .500. I'm not saying that is a logical point, obviously if you can add Allen and Garnett to Pierce, you pull the trigger, but based on his logic, that wouldn't have happened. I was trying illustrate, with my post, that the use of FG% is ridiculous.

It's like trying to use RBI to evaluate a baseball player...it makes absolutely no sense. OPS or OPS+ are far better, people need to start embracing metrics.
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Old 07-03-2008, 06:35 PM   #54
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re: Update: Wizards Keep Jamison, Arenas

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I can only hope your first paragraph comes true. Knowing the quirkiness of Gil, they probably offered him the max hoping it was just a sign of gratitude that he would kindly reject. Seeing these vets take less to win a ring seems to rub off on some of the opting out lately and we can only hope Gil sees the same thing.

I totally agree with you re: Blake. He was solid for Portland last season- excellent A:TO ratio and that's all you can really ask for in a PG. Arroyo ain't a bad option. The names you listed that we passed on for OPEC make me wince.

I loved Livingston out of high school- thought he'd change the game at his position. If we're offering Erasmus James money, I'd take a flyer... but that last knee injury looked career-ending.
I like that Jonathan Wallace has been invited to summer league play...but he may not be quick enough to play in the NBA.
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Old 07-03-2008, 10:13 PM   #55
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re: Update: Wizards Keep Jamison, Arenas

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I like that Jonathan Wallace has been invited to summer league play...but he may not be quick enough to play in the NBA.
The guy was the epitome of a heady player at point... I thought he was going to G-town law? I guess it's a good backup plan if things don't work out in summer league.

Well, it looks like Gil is signing for 16 million less. He did concede a bit, but I would have liked to have seen it around 105 total. I know the salary structures are different for the two players, but his contract is worth more per year than Chris Paul's new extension.
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Old 07-03-2008, 10:23 PM   #56
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re: Update: Wizards Keep Jamison, Arenas

Actually, I take it back... I can't really hate on how much he settled for. Most players would have taken the entire thing- 16 is definitely nothing to sneeze at.

Hopefully, we'll be able to unload our two expirings next off-season for some immediate help.
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Old 07-03-2008, 10:49 PM   #57
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re: Update: Wizards Keep Jamison, Arenas

OK I am in the tank for Arenas as a guy and think he is a great player so I guess I am biased but when was the last time a player got offered a max deal and turned it down to take less so the team could bring in some other guys? That is awesome. I hope his defense wasn't in that last 15 mil though.
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Old 07-03-2008, 11:05 PM   #58
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re: Update: Wizards Keep Jamison, Arenas

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The guy was the epitome of a heady player at point... I thought he was going to G-town law? I guess it's a good backup plan if things don't work out in summer league.

Well, it looks like Gil is signing for 16 million less. He did concede a bit, but I would have liked to have seen it around 105 total. I know the salary structures are different for the two players, but his contract is worth more per year than Chris Paul's new extension.
I think he is deferring law school for a year, or at least he has the right to.
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Old 07-03-2008, 11:06 PM   #59
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re: Update: Wizards Keep Jamison, Arenas

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I can only hope your first paragraph comes true. Knowing the quirkiness of Gil, they probably offered him the max hoping it was just a sign of gratitude that he would kindly reject. Seeing these vets take less to win a ring seems to rub off on some of the opting out lately and we can only hope Gil sees the same thing.
Well there you go
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Old 07-04-2008, 12:27 AM   #60
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Re: Update: Wizards Keep Jamison, Arenas

What might be interesting is going after JC Navarro. He's a restricted free agent I believe. Without Pau, why would he want to stay in Memphis?
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