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Old 04-29-2004, 01:37 PM   #1
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This is one of the worst articles that I have read in a long time. The lack of respect that is show to Pat Tillman and the Tillman family is disgusting. I am ashamed of this kid and his lack of respect for a man who fought for him to write this terrible article.
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Old 04-29-2004, 01:44 PM   #2
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Unreal. This is just a stupid publicity stunt by this little bastard. Its gonna blow up in his face dearly. I just MIGHT listen to the argument that Tillman got unessacary publicity and that it defaced what the other members of the army who parished did. But Rest Assured, Tillman is a hero, as is every single other member of the army, navy , marines. This is freaking BS.
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Old 04-29-2004, 02:20 PM   #3
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That's almost worth a drive to Amherst.
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Old 04-29-2004, 02:28 PM   #4
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that's one of the most disgusting articles I've ever read. he says "I could tell he was that type of macho guy, from his scowling, beefy face on the CNN pictures." HE WAS PLAYING FOOTBALL YOU MORON!! Do you expect him to be smiling ear to ear telling everyone how much he's enjoying himself? And if he's referring to his pictures as an enlisted man, can someone tell me when they'e ever seen a soldier in uniform showing emotion during marches or training? You do that and your likely to be down on the ground giving 200 pushups quicker than you could blink. I hate when people like this guy have media access and use it to mouth off about something that they don't fully understand. I think the word he used to describe his vision of Tillman, perfectly fits the writer himself because he showed himself to be a pendejo like no other.
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Old 04-29-2004, 02:38 PM   #5
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Pat Tillman, and the rest of the armed forces, did something greater than defending themselves or their freedom: they fought to defend someone else's freedom!
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Old 04-29-2004, 02:40 PM   #6
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Well if anyone is up to go and have a talk with this PUNK, Im in!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Old 04-29-2004, 03:22 PM   #7
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It's on CNN!

It made the CNN web page! He is going to raise a real backlash, I'm sure!
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Old 04-29-2004, 03:25 PM   #8
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I don't agree with him, but he's entitled to his opinion just like you are. Is Pat Tillman a hero? Maybe. What horribly heroic action did he take? Did he lay down his life for 20 of his other men? No. He joined the Rangers and had an unfortunate accident happen to him, I think it's a little overzealous to call him a hero. I feel heroes are people that really totally change the face of something. Pat Tillman didn't do that. He's a man who was famous, that just happened to die in combat. He's no more of a hero than anyone else who has died in Iraq. This whole "defending our Freedom" thing kind of makes me sick. He's not defending my freedom in Iraq. My freedom was never jeopardized by Saddam.

It would take my about 4 pages worth of essay to explain my stance on the above. It's not lack of love for my country, or the men and women in the service (which I have quite a few family and friends in) but the war is unnecessary. Pat Tillman should have never been killed, because he should have never been there.

The term "hero" get's tossed around like a rag-doll in times of war. Everyone suddenly becomes a hero. The armed forces do their jobs, and they do them well. However, I don't get entitled as a hero if there's an unfortunate accident and I die. I'm an idiot who got stuck in an industrial machine. I think a hero is the man who sacrifices himself for the rest of the platoon. A hero is someone who saves the lives of his fellow soldiers.

Please don't take this the wrong way. I'm just saying that Pat Tillman get's too much press and our society likes the word hero. Hero's are rare. Pat Tillman did a noble thing in turning down the money and fighting, although the kid has a valid point that it could be seen as stupid. There's a very thin line between brave and stupid.

In closing. Let the kid say how he feels. Or is it going back to after 9/11 when the rednecks beat up anyone who looked as if they were from the middle east. Or people beating other people up for not standing up during "America the beautiful" (which holds no disrespect.) It's simply form of opinion, and Pat Tillman knew what chances he was taking heading into battle. He's no less a hero than the 10 who died via carbomb today.

Here's a novel idea. Let's get the fuck out of there and we won't have any more "heroes." That's fine by me. I'd rather be heroless and still have families with loved ones intact.
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Old 04-29-2004, 03:48 PM   #9
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I think the word he used to describe his vision of Tillman, perfectly fits the writer himself because he showed himself to be a pendejo like no other.[/QUOTE]
You took the word's right out of my mouth!
To bad that fucking PENDEJO! Can't even realize that if it wasn't for pepole like Tillman he wouldn't be able to right his moronic article! I say send him back home! He doesn't deserve the right's brave men and women like Tillman gave there life's for!
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Old 04-29-2004, 04:02 PM   #10
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Unbelievable! I'd like to know which Puerto Rican neighborhood he's talking about because as a Puerto Rican myself I can tell you there isn't a single neighborhood that would feel that way about Tillman or anyone else who has made the brave choice to defend this nation at the risk of their own lives. It's the Pat Tillman's of this world that allow this guy to write such outrageous articles, he should be grateful
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Old 04-29-2004, 04:31 PM   #11
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Daseal: Pat Tillman was killed in Afghanistan. I believe that is certainly relevant to 9/11.

Also, while I'm in complete agreement about freedom of the press and freedom of speech and conscience, I feel it is the responsibility of those who disagree with the student at Amhearst to speak out against those views. That's how a free society works. If you say something I disagree with, I don't silence you; I respond in kind. And for the record, I don't think people are "entitled" to hold false views. You are not entitled to believe that 2+2=5.

So, is this student's view false? Well, Tillman had every oportunity NOT to serve his country. He gave up a lucrative job that I am sure provided all the macho thrills he needed. Further, his fame and fortune in the NFL are the dream of macho, jock Rambo-types all over the country. And instead he gave that up, and then gave the ultimate sacrifice for his country. While one may well disagree with the policies of our government, TIllman simply was a soldier who did what was ordered of him.

As for the word "hero," we hear it constantly in sports. For once, the term may be applied correctly to an athlete. And, for the record, I am quite sure that if Tillman were here to day, he would reject the label. My impression is that he just wanted to do his part. We need soldiers to protect us in a world where fanatics are willing to fly planes into buildings. And soldiering is a nasty, difficult, incredibly dangerous job. Tillman volunteered for it, despite his success in the NFL. From my perspective, that's heroic.
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Old 04-29-2004, 04:33 PM   #12
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Daseal - Tillman was killed in Afghanistan (who was harboring al-qaeda and would be still if we hadn't gone in there). He was in Iraq for a while, but was ambushed in and subsequently killed in Afghanistan. If you think that going into Afghanistan was not justified, then you obviously don't know the facts.

Way to use one stereotype to condemn another:
"Or is it going back to after 9/11 when the rednecks beat up anyone who looked as if they were from the middle east."
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Old 04-29-2004, 04:39 PM   #13
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"The Cardinals said they will retire Tillman's No. 40 and name the plaza surrounding the new stadium under construction in suburban Glendale the "Pat Tillman Freedom Plaza." "

The Cardinals just earned a little respect, in my book.
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Old 04-29-2004, 04:42 PM   #14
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I am more concerned at this guys obsession with Rambo. Was he unable to deal with the subject matter and thus scarred by it psychologically? Has he got an inferiority complex due to being a 98lb weakling? It's a strange kind of rant, very immature, he's got some deep seated problems that will require the help of a therapist.

I still would like to beat the snot out of him though. Not because he looks a certain way, but because he's obnoxious.
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Old 04-29-2004, 04:54 PM   #15
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Daseal -

I agree and disagree with you. As to the kid having a right to say what he wants about Tillman. Yup. He does. I don't have to respect it, but he can say it. From what I read of the article, I happen to agree with the president of the college who described the article as "intellectually immature".

As to heroism, you make the mistake of tying heroism to a heroic death. While it is likely true that Tillman died just as many other soldiers have died in the line of duty, it is not the actual events of his death that make him heroic. Rather, it is the choices he made in life and which eventually resulted in his death that made him heroic.

Everyone, whether they do so knowingly or with some alterior motives, who joins the armed forces has made, on some level, certain choices and sacrifices and, accordingly, is in the same way "heroic" as Tillman was. In an extreme way, however, Tillman reflected the choices and sacrifices faced by all who don the uniform of our military and place their lives in our service.

Unlike the vast majority of those who have died, Tilman bypassed a life of ease and false hero-worship given to entertainers. Tillman sacrificed the luxuries given to such individuals and chose to place his life at the disposal of his country in hopes that, by doing so, he would better serve his fellow countrymen/women. By making this choice, Tillman exhibited a selflessness which, if practiced by all of us, would make our country and this world a better place. Further, the he choice made, though easy for Tillman, is incomprehensible to many of us. Can you honestly say you would sacrifice the 3.6 million and fame commensurate with being professional football player in order to serve your country in a life threatening job for low pay and relative anonymity (even if you believed the cause just)? While I would like to honestly answer "Yes". I am not sure I can.

The fact that Tillman could and did answer "yes" to this question and then followed his answer through to it its deadly end is what makes him heroic and his death tragic.
He is a hero because his choices and sacrifices set an ideal which all of us can and should strive to emulate even if we cannot hope to duplicate it.
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