Warpath  

Home | Forums | Salary Cap Info | Shop | Donate | Stay Connected




Go Back   Warpath > Off-Topic Discussion > Parking Lot


F... gas prices

Parking Lot


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 06-18-2008, 04:32 PM   #226
RG Glee
 
Schneed10's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Newtown Square, PA
Age: 35
Posts: 8,297
Re: F... gas prices

Quote:
Originally Posted by dmek25 View Post
oh contraire, mon fraire. those oil companies are specifically told those breaks are under the conditions of re investing in further research and development. and we all know our gov't would never lie to us, would they? or are the lunatics running the asylum again?
You're missing the point. I'm talking about how the federal government sets their SPENDING budget.
Schneed10 is offline   Reply With Quote

Advertisements
Old 06-18-2008, 04:35 PM   #227
Playmaker
 
onlydarksets's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: all up in your business
Posts: 2,693
Re: F... gas prices

Quote:
Originally Posted by dmek25 View Post
all im saying is that this isn't a single party issue. if congress wants to be taken seriously, let them explain what they have been doing the last couple of decades to try and alleviate our dependency on oil. because most of those guys are career politicians
I want to be clear on that, too - I put this squarely on the office holders of the past 35 years (1973 should have been a call to action, even though it was an artificial market constraint), which includes a mostly Democrat congress (but not by much) and a pretty even split of Democrat and Republican presidents.
__________________
Stop reading my signature.
onlydarksets is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-18-2008, 06:12 PM   #228
Franchise Player
 
Sheriff Gonna Getcha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Age: 35
Posts: 8,317
Re: F... gas prices

Quote:
Originally Posted by dmek25 View Post
all im saying is that this isn't a single party issue. if congress wants to be taken seriously, let them explain what they have been doing the last couple of decades to try and alleviate our dependency on oil. because most of those guys are career politicians
Let's not blame this oil crisis on the government. What are they supposed to do, outlaw gasoline or order everyone and every company who owns a car to turn in their keys? As you noted, they've been doling out money for years in the search for alternative fuels. Contrary to popular belief, the government is not and never will be an omniscient and omnipotent body that can solve every problem presented to society. So, I don't think the government should be blasted every time something bad happens.

Moreover, private companies have expended millions upon millions (and perhaps billions) of dollars in the search for cheap, efficient, and green fuels that are compatible with our cars, trucks, etc. To date, no one has discovered a good alternative.

The only thing that is going to force this country to kick its oil addiction is money. As gas becomes more and more expensive, the pressure to find alternative energy sources grows and grows. When someone else develops a cheaper source of energy that is compatible with our engines, they're going to become trillionaires and society will be able to kick gas to the curb.
Sheriff Gonna Getcha is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-18-2008, 06:52 PM   #229
Playmaker
 
onlydarksets's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: all up in your business
Posts: 2,693
Re: F... gas prices

The government regulates utilities, why not gasoline? Once the automobile became an integral part of the American economy, I think the government had a responsibility to oversee that it's future was secure.

I think you are fooling yourself if you think that there are no good alternatives to gasoline. The oil lobby (and, through it, the automobile lobby) has had a vested interest in riding this out as long as possible. The government decided to take a passive role and not set any timetables (like they did for broadcasters and HDTV). Evolutionary change is painful, but it's usually in the best interest of the future.

I will add that we are equally to blame by not demanding alternatives through the market. However, the alternatives have generally been beyond the financial reach of 95%+ of the households out there.
__________________
Stop reading my signature.
onlydarksets is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-18-2008, 07:10 PM   #230
Franchise Player
 
Sheriff Gonna Getcha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Age: 35
Posts: 8,317
Re: F... gas prices

Quote:
Originally Posted by onlydarksets View Post
The government regulates utilities, why not gasoline? Once the automobile became an integral part of the American economy, I think the government had a responsibility to oversee that it's future was secure.
I never claimed the government should not or does not regulate gasoline. The government undoubtedly regulates gasoline, both directly and indirectly. Those little stickers on the gas pumps are mandated by the government. The government taxes gasoline. Gas station owners are subject to a whole host of regulations. The government also indirectly regulates gasoline by subjecting oil explorers, producers, refiners, etc. to heavy regulation. The government regulates fuel efficiency standards in cars. I am just unclear as to how the government can regulate gas in a way that solves the problem that we are currently experiencing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by onlydarksets View Post
I think you are fooling yourself if you think that there are no good alternatives to gasoline. The oil lobby (and, through it, the automobile lobby) has had a vested interest in riding this out as long as possible. The government decided to take a passive role and not set any timetables (like they did for broadcasters and HDTV). Evolutionary change is painful, but it's usually in the best interest of the future.
Please name a single realistic alternative to gasoline. Just as the oil lobby "has a vested interest in riding this out," other large multi-billion dollar companies would stand to make trillions upon trillions if they could readily develop a cheap, efficient, and green alternative. So, I don't quite understand why people cite oil company conspiracy theories as the real reason why we haven't found an alternative to gas, when there are trillions of reasons why existing powerful companies have been, are, and will be exploring alternatives.
Sheriff Gonna Getcha is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-18-2008, 09:10 PM   #231
JUST LIVIN
 
htownskinfan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: houston,tx
Age: 52
Posts: 3,407
Re: F... gas prices

this guy has the answer,our problems are solved,hes made gas out of water
__________________
Ho
Lee
Chit
htownskinfan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-18-2008, 10:53 PM   #232
Playmaker
 
onlydarksets's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: all up in your business
Posts: 2,693
Re: F... gas prices

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sheriff Gonna Getcha View Post
I never claimed the government should not or does not regulate gasoline. The government undoubtedly regulates gasoline, both directly and indirectly. Those little stickers on the gas pumps are mandated by the government. The government taxes gasoline. Gas station owners are subject to a whole host of regulations. The government also indirectly regulates gasoline by subjecting oil explorers, producers, refiners, etc. to heavy regulation. The government regulates fuel efficiency standards in cars. I am just unclear as to how the government can regulate gas in a way that solves the problem that we are currently experiencing.

Please name a single realistic alternative to gasoline. Just as the oil lobby "has a vested interest in riding this out," other large multi-billion dollar companies would stand to make trillions upon trillions if they could readily develop a cheap, efficient, and green alternative. So, I don't quite understand why people cite oil company conspiracy theories as the real reason why we haven't found an alternative to gas, when there are trillions of reasons why existing powerful companies have been, are, and will be exploring alternatives.
My wording was poor in my previous post. I'm not saying the alternatives exist in a viable form. I meant that there is no reason they should not exist, if the proper motivations were there over the past 35 years. That's the regulation that the government failed to provide - incentives to develop alternative fuels that actually motivate.

The past 10 years have proved beyond a doubt that America is absolutely and irrevocably dependent on oil. What other resource would we stand for a quadruple increase in price in such a short period? It is the government's responsibility to ensure scarcity isn't a problem for a resource that the government depends on to that extent.

It's also not as simple as some random company inventing a new engine and making trillions. The investment required to create an alternate fuel is a barrier to entry to almost every company out there. It would take a huge chunk out of even big oil. It's not just inventing a car that runs on corn, it's creating the infrastructure to allow people to get their corn refills (or whatever).

In the end, though, we are where we are, and that can't be changed. The government shouldn't get a free pass for not addressing the issue earlier, though.
__________________
Stop reading my signature.
onlydarksets is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-2008, 12:12 AM   #233
Franchise Player
 
FRPLG's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Age: 35
Posts: 9,939
Re: F... gas prices

Amory Lovins on winning the oil endgame | Video on TED.com

This guy has a great take on the issue and actually presents an argument of hope. I lvoe this site it has some great stuff.
FRPLG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-2008, 12:41 AM   #234
Franchise Player
 
Sheriff Gonna Getcha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Age: 35
Posts: 8,317
Re: F... gas prices

Quote:
Originally Posted by onlydarksets View Post
It's also not as simple as some random company inventing a new engine and making trillions.
It could be just that simple. Read this very interesting Newsweek article. I don't believe the process will be quick, cheap or easy, but with trillions of dollars to be made, the incentive and investment dollars are there.

Also, I'm not sure what role the government should play in this mess. Remember, our government is the one that tried to kill Castro with exploding cigars, couldn't deliver drinking water to Katrina victims, and pays $500 for toilet seats. What makes people optimistic that they can solve a problem that greedy multi-billion dollar companies can't?
Sheriff Gonna Getcha is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-2008, 02:00 AM   #235
Eternally Legendary
 
saden1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Seattle
Age: 34
Posts: 9,883
Re: F... gas prices

Good news everybody...Shell, Exxon Mobile, Total, Chevron and BP are final stages of negotiating a no-bid contract with the Iraqi Oil Ministry. We're in for some treats.
__________________
"The Redskins have always suffered from chronic organizational deformities under Snyder."

-Jenkins
saden1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-2008, 07:56 AM   #236
MVP
 
dmek25's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: lancaster,pa
Age: 52
Posts: 10,515
Re: F... gas prices

but saden, its NOT about the oil. and sheriff, im not blaming the oil crisis on the gov't. but these guys are supposed to be the genius's they claim to be, they should have been looking at alternatives as far back as the 70's. its funny how all of a sudden its a big issue, to everyone.
__________________
"It's better to be quiet and thought a fool than to open ones mouth and remove all doubt."
courtesy of 53fan
dmek25 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-2008, 09:10 AM   #237
Registered User
 
firstdown's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: chesapeake, va
Age: 50
Posts: 15,818
Re: F... gas prices

Quote:
Originally Posted by dmek25 View Post
but saden, its NOT about the oil. and sheriff, im not blaming the oil crisis on the gov't. but these guys are supposed to be the genius's they claim to be, they should have been looking at alternatives as far back as the 70's. its funny how all of a sudden its a big issue, to everyone.
The problem has been that gas has been cheap so alternatives to gas have been to expensive. Why would we spend more for a car that burns on alternative fuels when we could buy the cheaper car which burns cheap gas. Now that gas has gone up like it has it makes alternative fuels more affordable. Even though oil co. sell oil if they could have found a cheaper alternative to oil they would have done so but gas was to cheap to compete with. Think about this. Would you invest in a Co. that says its looking for an alternative to gas but it will be more expensive and very hard to market? No. So while they have done research there was just not enough demand until the past year or so. I say we drill here at home but we force the Oils Co. drilling here to spend a certain percentage of profits on research. This will buy us some time and help control gas prices. This country has become what it is because we have been a leader in inventing new things (I don't really need to list them we all know). So I'm confident someone or some co. will find a solution to this problem and if they make millions or billions good for them.
firstdown is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-2008, 09:25 AM   #238
Playmaker
 
onlydarksets's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: all up in your business
Posts: 2,693
Re: F... gas prices

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sheriff Gonna Getcha View Post
It could be just that simple. Read this very interesting Newsweek article. I don't believe the process will be quick, cheap or easy, but with trillions of dollars to be made, the incentive and investment dollars are there.

Also, I'm not sure what role the government should play in this mess. Remember, our government is the one that tried to kill Castro with exploding cigars, couldn't deliver drinking water to Katrina victims, and pays $500 for toilet seats. What makes people optimistic that they can solve a problem that greedy multi-billion dollar companies can't?
Now? Not much. This is a problem for the market to solve and the American people to bear in the interim (via high gas prices). I was speaking historically and from the perspective of, does it make sense to turn over more land (or off-shore rights) to the oil companies when they've shown so little interest, historically, in coming up with alternatives. I understand the economic argument for handing over the drilling rights, but I think it's short-sighted, because the current course is not sustainable and there has to be some incentive to change it.

Interesting article. There was also a National Geographic article a while back that discussed some of the hurdles to biofuels.
__________________
Stop reading my signature.
onlydarksets is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-2008, 09:52 AM   #239
Eternally Legendary
 
saden1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Seattle
Age: 34
Posts: 9,883
Re: F... gas prices

Quote:
Originally Posted by dmek25 View Post
but saden, its NOT about the oil. and sheriff, im not blaming the oil crisis on the gov't. but these guys are supposed to be the genius's they claim to be, they should have been looking at alternatives as far back as the 70's. its funny how all of a sudden its a big issue, to everyone.

I have been told that production from Iraq will increase and gas prices will decrease because of the supply and demand nature of the oil business. Are you tell me I'll be paying just as much at the pump? *gasp* It can't be..
__________________
"The Redskins have always suffered from chronic organizational deformities under Snyder."

-Jenkins
saden1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-2008, 12:07 PM   #240
Registered User
 
firstdown's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: chesapeake, va
Age: 50
Posts: 15,818
Re: F... gas prices

Quote:
Originally Posted by onlydarksets View Post
Now? Not much. This is a problem for the market to solve and the American people to bear in the interim (via high gas prices). I was speaking historically and from the perspective of, does it make sense to turn over more land (or off-shore rights) to the oil companies when they've shown so little interest, historically, in coming up with alternatives. I understand the economic argument for handing over the drilling rights, but I think it's short-sighted, because the current course is not sustainable and there has to be some incentive to change it.

Interesting article. There was also a National Geographic article a while back that discussed some of the hurdles to biofuels.
How do you sell alternative fuels when they are more expensive than gas? The answer is simple. You can't. Now that gas has gone up so much it startes to bring alternatives into play and I think we will see allot of new ideas hitting the market. There just has not been a market for alternatives. I also think we would be surprised how much has allraedy been spen on alternatives.
firstdown is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 09:02 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site is not officially affiliated with the Washington Redskins or the NFL.
Page generated in 0.34478 seconds with 9 queries

Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.2.0 RC5

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25