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The Passion of Christ

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Old 03-03-2004, 03:18 PM   #16
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cpayne ... Afganistan is one thing, Iraq is another. There simply was never any link between Saddam and Osama ... that's just BS the Bush Administration used to justify their war. Attacking Iraq was high on their list before 9/11 ... the unforgivable thing is that they've used a terrible tragedy like 9/11 to justify their actions. This was a power play for oil and money, and to make amends for Papa Bush's failures during the first Iraq war. These people in the White House are nothing short of criminals and I hope they go to jail someday (let's not forget about their Enron connections either).

Though I'm philosophically opposed to war, I can understand going after Bin Laden. There simply is no justification for attacking Iraq. None. Zero. The reasons we were given ... WMDs, al Qaeda link, possible 9/11 connection, attempts to obtain nuclear material ... were all proven false in time. Bush lied in his State of the Union address. Cheney berated CIA officials because their evidence concerning WMDs wasn't convincing enough. Essentially Bush/Cheney cooked the books. Now we're stuck in Iraq for 2-3 years or more and our troops will be targets for every fundamentalist fanatic in the world. It's Vietnam. Our soldiers and the Iraqi people will now pay the price for the Bush Administration's greed and foolishness. As Americans, we have a duty to question our leaders and not follow them blindly. It's an American tradition to distrust our politicians but in this instance most of us have failed in our duty. We have become fat, entitled and lazy because we are too comfortable. We are also very, very selfish.

It's true that Jesus didn't let himself get pushed around but he NEVER used or condoned violence in any way. He was an incredibly strong and devout person and he was a pacifist. These characteristics are not contradictory, cpayne. The strongest thing you can do is handle a difficult situation without resorting to violence. A "christian" is someone who follows Christ's example, the way he lived his life. Too many people focus on the resurrection, which is meaningless if you don't buy into the teachings. My point is that a lot of people who claim to be christians are really far from it and that's a shame. It's not enough to go to church and put money in the basket. You have to really try to live your life like Jesus did and that's a really, really hard thing to do. Is it even realistic? I don't know but you have to try ... it's a spiritual ideal that christians must strive for every day ... if we fail sometimes that's okay, but we must keep trying. If someone thinks racist wars and pre-emptive invasions of sovereign countries is cool, that's fine. But it ain't exactly christian, is it?
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Old 03-03-2004, 03:54 PM   #17
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Militarily speaking!

Militarily speaking!
I work for a small outfit, called the U.S. Navy, ever hear of it? We are big in ships and planes! Daily military news excerpts prove there was a need to go into Iraq as well as Afghanistan! Those news excerpts were all from valid news agencies, like the London Times, NY Times, LA Times, Washington Post, Washington Times, Tampa, Baltimore, and a miriad of other daily public publications! And, just because the mainstream press has covered up, or not picked up the stories of what we found as first reported doesn't mean it never happened. Or never existed. You believe everything you read, or hear, which I'm sure is only a small amount of what is actually happening, and you become brainwashed. 9-11 changed the world, lest we forget! We were after all, attacked first. Information is the key! I'm in favor of any effort to go after those responsible, including Saddam and his associate, Osama! At whatever the cost! Yes, there is a substantial connection, and a need to be there! Just remember, the Liberal left controls the air, and most of the news, so why do you think you lean one way, and an old Vet like me, and active duty personnel lean another way? Maybe we know, and just don't say because of certain degrees of secrecy in the government! I say we need to support the President! And, listen with more than your eyes and ears. Granted, you folks don't have the ability to look at a compilation of daily news, but, all of the publications I see cited in military news are all from purely public sources! It's no secret!

Yes, I'm pasionate about Christ, but also about the need to support and pray for our leaders. That is scriptural!
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Old 03-03-2004, 04:06 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gmanc711
I'm defintley not starting this to become a debate about anything, I just wanted to know what anyones thoughts on the movie were, who saw it. I got out of the movie about an hour ago and was just in complete shock. Watching the movie for me, wasent even enjoyable cause I was just so shocked at what I was seeing. I mean it was a great movie, but it was hard to watch/enjoy it, if that makes sense. Reaction's from any others whove seen it?
so much for your plan of not starting this to become a debate about anything
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Old 03-03-2004, 04:16 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghost
There simply is no justification for attacking Iraq. None. Zero. The reasons we were given ... WMDs, al Qaeda link, possible 9/11 connection, attempts to obtain nuclear material ... were all proven false in time.
David Kay (who's report I'm assuming you're going by) doesn't seem to think so.

Transcript of an interview with David Kay on the Today Show, being interviewed by Matt Lauer. This interview came after the report.

Lauer: "Is it true that in 2000 and 2001 Saddam was pushing his nuclear progarm?"

Kay: "Yes, he was pushing hard for nuclear and long range missiles. Look, it's clear the man had the intent. He simply wasn't successful."

"He clearly lied to UN and was in material breach."

In a key moment in the interview, Lauer asked: "Based on everything you now know, was it prudent to go to war against Saddam?"

Kay: "It was absolutely prudent to go to war. The system was collapsing, Iraq was a country with desire to develop WMDs, and it was attracting terrorists like flies to honey."

Lauer: "Are your earlier comments being exploited for political reasons?"

"Inevitably yes, but what we have is a national security issue that shouldn't be exploited as a political issue."

Lauer: "Should we continue to search for WMDs as VP Cheney has suggested?

Kay: "Absolutely."
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Old 03-03-2004, 04:38 PM   #20
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The story I was referring to is the one in which Jesus becomes angry, storms into the synagogue, turns over tables, cracks a whip, and forced people to leave. Sounds kinda like the war on terrorism. People (terrorists) made us mad, we got mad, go after them, turn over their tables (bomb weapons factories, etc), and then disperse the enemy combatants (take them into custody). If one of those priests had stood up to Jesus, he surely would have dealt with him, in the same manner we are dealing with UBL and his gang.
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Old 03-04-2004, 10:45 AM   #21
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The Priests Did!

The priests did stand up, albiet, later! They conferred, schemed, and had Jesus arrested! Not just for over-turning the money changers, it was to protect their form of religion! They had a cash cow, and didn't want to lose it! They would sell a sacrificial lamb, or bird several times over!

Add to that, Judas betrayal of his Master/Teacher.
Add to that the fact that neither the Pharisees or the Herodians were in charge!
Add to that, Pilate, however he reacted! Or as the kids say, "Whatever!"
Add to that, the crowd, chanting Hosannah! one week, and Crucify him! the next week!
Add to that, the abandonment by Jesus' disciples!
All fomented and aided by Satan and his lies!

Then, our Lord willingly sacrificed himself to take away our curse of sin! He literally became cursed!

He died, arose the third day, and was seen by his disciples. He also was able to allay some of their misgivings about his ministry during that very personal time between the resurection and his ascention into heaven. He further commisioned his disciples to wait & receive power, his same Spirit.
That power enables the believer to witness about Jesus love, grace, mercy, life, and peace, and divine health.

The entire New Testament was a testament (witness) of his love and teachings!

His soon return will unite the world under one Lord!
His Kingdom will reign forever, just as he has dominion over all of creation, because, after all, he is the creator!

The Passion of The Christ could have easily touched on more than just his cruel death. It could have been much more!

As the Bumper sticker states: Christians aren't perfect, just forgiven!
And I stand Forgiven, on Christ, the Rock!
And I pray for all of you to come into a real, and personnal relationship with Christ also!
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Old 03-05-2004, 03:57 PM   #22
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Thanks for clearing that up.
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Old 04-01-2004, 03:34 PM   #23
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I thought it was a great movie...I saw another movie depicting the same situation in "passion" on tv the other night..It was pretty pathetic...Though, I did notice that caesar in the tv movie was the one that told the jews "to bring jesus to him, and he would eliminate him." In Passion, caesar tries to help, but the jews don't hear it and refuse to have nothing else happen except the crucify...
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Old 04-01-2004, 06:01 PM   #24
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I think I prefer South Park's version.....
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Old 04-01-2004, 08:23 PM   #25
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I couldn't stay up to watch it last night...just watched the one before it..lol..
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Old 04-07-2004, 11:09 AM   #26
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GHOST EARLIER POST: "It's true that Jesus didn't let himself get pushed around but he NEVER used or condoned violence in any way. He was an incredibly strong and devout person and he was a pacifist. These characteristics are not contradictory, cpayne. The strongest thing you can do is handle a difficult situation without resorting to violence. A "christian" is someone who follows Christ's example, the way he lived his life. Too many people focus on the resurrection, which is meaningless if you don't buy into the teachings. My point is that a lot of people who claim to be christians are really far from it and that's a shame. It's not enough to go to church and put money in the basket. You have to really try to live your life like Jesus did and that's a really, really hard thing to do. Is it even realistic? I don't know but you have to try ... it's a spiritual ideal that christians must strive for every day ... if we fail sometimes that's okay, but we must keep trying. If someone thinks racist wars and pre-emptive invasions of sovereign countries is cool, that's fine. But it ain't exactly christian, is it?"


First, let me say this - Ghost if you review the post to which you originally responded and complained of christians condoning terrorism, I think you will find that the person posting made NO references to terrorism but, instead, simply spoke of his gratitude to Christ and the example he gave us and, specifically, to the good things that the poster attributed as gifts from God.

As for christians who act, say and believe things which contradict the teachings of christ - as christ himself said "all have sinned and fallen short of the nature of God." This is not an excuse, but, dammit, I am only human do not expect me to be perfect and do not use my imperfections as a basis to tarnish the ideal for which I strive (and, undoubtedly fail to achieve). Before you condemn those who "go to church and put money in the basket" recognize that they, at least at some level, have some understanding that God is important and "religion" is something that should be part of their lives - isn't this an important first step in any deeper spirituality? Have you spoken with them and discussed yours and their differing spirituality? Your statement of the obvious that christians should strive to live as christ did reeks of self satisfaction and superiority. Scholars, theologians, and wiseman of all faiths have debated just how to accomplish that easily phrased but difficult journey and most have come up with different answers.

As for the pacifist nature of Christ, well that depends on how you define pacifist. If you mean one who thinks violence, even for a just cause, is always wrong, I disagree. I believe, while violence was repugnant to Jesus, Christ understood, accepted and condoned violence as a last resort individually and as a neccessary evil corporately if appropriately used in the pursuit of ultimate justice (I don't think Christ would have had any problem launching a pre-emptive strike against Hitler).

Your statement that Christ never condoned violence or used violence is simply wrong. The most obvious example is the scourging of the temple; Christ violently threw the money changers out of the temple (he made a whip and lashed them). Further, Christ respected and understood the military (although most of his miracles were reserved for jews, the Roman Centurian's daughter was healed through the Centurian's faith and respect for authority). Also, Christ clearly recognized the authority of governments to order the civil lives of citizens (give unto ceasar that which is ceasar's, give unto God that which is God's). As the ultimate example to us as individuals, however, Christ surrendered himself to the violence of others and demonstrated the power that peace can have.

Finally, I take great exception to your statement that "Too many people focus on the resurrection, which is meaningless if you don't buy into the teachings." If your disclaimer in the predicate's subjunctive clause is intended to mean that the resurrection without context is meaningless, fine, I agree. If on the other hand, you disagree with christianity's focus on the resurrection as THE focal point of the religion well I couldn't disagree more. The teachings, surrender and sacrifice of christ are no more then another martyr story without the justification brought out by the resurrection. Whether or not you believe that he rose from the dead in physical form, the central christian resurrection message that total surrender to God brings you to a state of being in which you are one with God is essential to the teachings and life of Christ. It is the climax of Christ's story, the end of his journey, the focus to which his life and teachings pointed - not just an epilogue to the story of his death.

IMHO, Christianity is a long, hard journey filled with spirituality and wisdom from those who have gone before us. Christ challenges us in every moment and in every decision to "live like Christ" and, for each person, how to accomplish that will be a different facet on the central christian tenets of love and self sacrifice. Equally so, for each nation, state, city, or any other setting where humans live and act corporately, "christian" action is a matter of much debate as it should be. To summarize and judge other actions as christian or non-christian as you appear (to me) to be doing (especially with erroneous statements) discounts your assertions and discredits your criticisms.

That's my two cents. Peace Be With You.

Last edited by JoeRedskin; 04-07-2004 at 11:42 AM.
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Old 04-07-2004, 11:53 AM   #27
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BTW - Missed the South Park version. I am sure it was appropriately irreverent. Kenny and Eric are sure to burn in hell (But then, I understand Satan has a very nice, suite with room service, reserved for them).
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Old 04-07-2004, 12:13 PM   #28
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I believe the essence of the South Park message was 'Moderation in everything'. Eric Cartman was an absolute ass as always.
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Old 04-07-2004, 12:45 PM   #29
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Southpark finally portrayed Mel Gibson as he should be. A right winged conservative looney!

I would however attend his church to see him play the banjo!
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Old 04-07-2004, 01:07 PM   #30
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The only time I laughed during that episode was when Eric and Stan were "throwing it down" over the phone. The rest of the episode was just a waste of time to watch and I love South Park. I still think one of the funniest episodes was the one with Osama bin Laden and another was the one making fun of Pokeman.
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