Warpath  

Home | Forums | Salary Cap Info | Shop | Donate | Stay Connected




Go Back   Warpath > Off-Topic Discussion > Parking Lot


Tiered minimum wage?

Parking Lot


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 01-16-2007, 04:27 PM   #61
Pro Bowl
 
Beemnseven's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Virginia Beach
Age: 41
Posts: 5,301
Re: Tiered minimum wage?

Quote:
Originally Posted by gibbsisgod View Post
As much as I want to say f you buddy, I wont because in some ways you are right.

I didn't mean to make it sound as if I was dead broke or anything like that. My bills are paid, I owe no credit debt(other than 1 car payment) and I live pretty well considering where I live. I am not poor by any means but I do live paycheck to paycheck with liilte or none left over for savings.

It was our choice that my wife doesn't work fulltime so she would be home with our kids(where she and other mothers belong). When she did work we lived much better.

The point I was trying to get accross was this: My income hasn't increased near as much as the cost of living. Every year I get a 2-3% increase but it seasm my cost of living goes up 5-10%. I understand my kids play some part in that but they have nothing to do with raised taxes, increasing health care costs, and things of that nature.


Its wrong of you to judge me and my situation when you don't know all the facts. I have NEVER gone without a job. I have never applied for any kind of Goverment assistance whether it be unemployment, welfare or otherwise. I think I have done pretty good for myself considering the cards I have been dealt in life. I have never asked for help because I have the ablility and the drive to do it myself.
And maybe thats what I should have said to begin with.
Well I could understand if you wanted to tell me to f... off -- I knew those comments were somewhat "biting". Anyway, no, I don't know your whole situation. My response was based only on the information you gave (3 kids, you make 50k/year, wife works part time).

My main contention is that petitioning the government for a higher minimum wage is asking for government assistance.

The other things people often mention like, "I have X number of kids, so I can't afford to live on that" -- that doesn't wash with me. First off, you shouldn't be reproducing if the best you can do is minimum wage.

I also think people easily forget the risk that is involved with owning your own business, i.e., being an employer. It takes so much time, capital, hard work, and the possibility of failure is so much greater when you start a business. Add to that the responsibility of hiring people - the trust that's involved with those hirees -- it's a major headache. Then on of top all of that, a completely unrelated third party (the gov't) forces that person at the point of a gun to offer a minimum wage -- in some cases a wage that is much higher than the person is worth. When that happens, the employer's budget goes out of whack, and he either has to adjust his hiring down, or make up the cost for the higher wage into the price of the product or service he offers.

I could go on and on. The minimum wage is a socialist concept. Let the free market decide wages, and let individuals negotiate their own salary without interference from government.
Beemnseven is offline   Reply With Quote

Advertisements
Old 01-16-2007, 04:30 PM   #62
Playmaker
 
gibbsisgod's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: 129 W 81st street
Age: 35
Posts: 3,503
Re: Tiered minimum wage?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Beemnseven View Post

The other things people often mention like, "I have X number of kids, so I can't afford to live on that" -- that doesn't wash with me. First off, you shouldn't be reproducing if the best you can do is minimum wage.
Amen brother!!!!
gibbsisgod is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-17-2007, 02:10 PM   #63
Living Legend
 
Monkeydad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: PA
Age: 35
Posts: 16,270
Re: Tiered minimum wage?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 724Skinsfan View Post
I agree with what you're saying but I think the intention of the idea was that if two candidiates are equally qualified then consideration should be given to the one that is living at or near the poverty, as far as AA is concerned.
That would be ideal, but that's not how the REAL AA works, despite being developed under that idea. It's just not something we could fairly enforce forever, so I don't think we should even start with it.
Monkeydad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-17-2007, 02:38 PM   #64
MVP
 
dmek25's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: lancaster,pa
Age: 53
Posts: 10,524
Re: Tiered minimum wage?

[quote=Beemnseven;270421]

My main contention is that petitioning the government for a higher minimum wage is asking for government assistance.


quote]
this is a ridiculous statement. at any place of employment, a standard raise, as long as the company does well, is expected, yearly. when is the last time you went without a raise? its been like 9 years that the minimum has been raised? any small business that doesn't do well usually doesn't last very long. and since the govt feels obligated to normally side with ownership on such labor issues, the minimum stays the same. why penalize the people that are willing to work these jobs? then you start getting into the illegal immigrant thing. i do not want people to get too comfortable in these jobs, but they should be able to survive, also
__________________
"It's better to be quiet and thought a fool than to open ones mouth and remove all doubt."
courtesy of 53fan
dmek25 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-17-2007, 02:44 PM   #65
MVP
 
dmek25's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: lancaster,pa
Age: 53
Posts: 10,524
Re: Tiered minimum wage?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Beemnseven View Post

I could go on and on. The minimum wage is a socialist concept. Let the free market decide wages, and let individuals negotiate their own salary without interference from government.
if the govt wouldn't have interfered in the first place, employers would be willing to be honest with people, and negotiations. now every potential employer looks at situations like the air traffic contollers, and knows they have the govt's backing. maybe there ought to be a cap on the amount of profits anyone can make, that way the money is distributed more equally. and not some company C.E.O making 20 to 40 million a year, while the everyday joes that work for him make 40,000 a year. does that really seem fair to anyone?
__________________
"It's better to be quiet and thought a fool than to open ones mouth and remove all doubt."
courtesy of 53fan
dmek25 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-17-2007, 03:12 PM   #66
Wildcard Bitches
 
RobH4413's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Bethesda, MD
Age: 29
Posts: 2,496
Re: Tiered minimum wage?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Beemnseven View Post
When that happens, the employer's budget goes out of whack, and he either has to adjust his hiring down, or make up the cost for the higher wage into the price of the product or service he offers.
That's pretty much why outsourcing is so popular. The governement is hands off on the international market (relativley speaking), and that kind of min wage is unregulated.

I'm sensing a strong conservative vibe to your posts (which I have no problem with), and would like to ask you what ultimatley is the goal of an economy? Are you an advocate for the trickle down theory?

Are you trying to have psuedo slaves making a buck fifty and hour struggling to raise kids, only to have the cycle repeat itself? What do you think will happen to crime in the cities when the governent is "hands off" the buisness aspect of the economy? There are so many variables to be considered.

We need to work on increasing resources for social programs intended to provide the pathways for those who have the desire to get out of poverty throught hard work. Will there be poor people? of course... but there isn't enough being done at the moment.

You can't agree that the statis quo is acceptable... there needs to be alot more done socially both here, and over-seas.

I refuse to accept the abuse of the less fortunate at the cost of a bunch of rich guys. That's garbage.
__________________
This is what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps!
RobH4413 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-17-2007, 03:21 PM   #67
MVP
 
dmek25's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: lancaster,pa
Age: 53
Posts: 10,524
Re: Tiered minimum wage?

Quote:
Originally Posted by RobH4413 View Post



I refuse to accept the abuse of the less fortunate at the cost of a bunch of rich guys. That's garbage.
for someone so young, this is a very bold statement. i agree. just like they say, the rich get richer.....
__________________
"It's better to be quiet and thought a fool than to open ones mouth and remove all doubt."
courtesy of 53fan
dmek25 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-17-2007, 05:10 PM   #68
Pro Bowl
 
Beemnseven's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Virginia Beach
Age: 41
Posts: 5,301
Re: Tiered minimum wage?

Quote:
My main contention is that petitioning the government for a higher minimum wage is asking for government assistance.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dmek25
...this is a ridiculous statement.
What's ridiculous about it? If someone calls for an increase in the federal minimum wage, which is a federal law, how is that NOT assistance from the government?

"...at any place of employment, a standard raise, as long as the company does well, is expected, yearly. when is the last time you went without a raise?"

A private employer has no legal obligation under the law to give anyone a raise. If the employees don't like their wages, or if their employer refuses to give them a raise, then they will seek other jobs -- and that employer will lose workers.

"why penalize the people that are willing to work these jobs? ... i do not want people to get too comfortable in these jobs, but they should be able to survive, also..."

If you think people should be able to survive, you have every right to give them all the money you want. But you have no right to force me or any employer to pay them higher than they are worth.
Beemnseven is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-17-2007, 05:13 PM   #69
Pro Bowl
 
Beemnseven's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Virginia Beach
Age: 41
Posts: 5,301
Re: Tiered minimum wage?

Quote:
Originally Posted by dmek25 View Post
if the govt wouldn't have interfered in the first place, employers would be willing to be honest with people, and negotiations. now every potential employer looks at situations like the air traffic contollers, and knows they have the govt's backing. maybe there ought to be a cap on the amount of profits anyone can make, that way the money is distributed more equally. and not some company C.E.O making 20 to 40 million a year, while the everyday joes that work for him make 40,000 a year. does that really seem fair to anyone?
Money should be distributed equally?

Let me ask you this: Should a landscaper who cuts grass make as much as a brain surgeon?
Beemnseven is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-17-2007, 05:27 PM   #70
Pro Bowl
 
Beemnseven's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Virginia Beach
Age: 41
Posts: 5,301
Re: Tiered minimum wage?

That's pretty much why outsourcing is so popular. The governement is hands off on the international market (relativley speaking), and that kind of min wage is unregulated.

Is it your position that the United States government should be able to dictate wages in, say ... Indonesia?

I'm sensing a strong conservative vibe to your posts (which I have no problem with), and would like to ask you what ultimatley is the goal of an economy? Are you an advocate for the trickle down theory?

I consider myself to be more libertarian. I'm a capitalist, which means that I believe the free market should determine wages and prices. When there are less taxes levied against businesses and the rich -- that extra money gets saved, invested, or spent -- meaning there's more money for banks to loan > loans that go to financing homes, cars, more businesses > which leads to higher employment (more people making and selling more cars and homes) which makes the economy strong. So yes, that's basically the "trickle down theory".

Are you trying to have psuedo slaves making a buck fifty and hour struggling to raise kids, only to have the cycle repeat itself? What do you think will happen to crime in the cities when the governent is "hands off" the buisness aspect of the economy? There are so many variables to be considered.

They're not slaves. They can leave their employer any time, and strive to do better, increase their job training, education and skills, which enables them to make more money. And the fault lies with them for having kids they cannot afford. Like I said in an earlier post, those who can't make more than 5 bucks an hour should not be having kids.

We need to work on increasing resources for social programs intended to provide the pathways for those who have the desire to get out of poverty throught hard work. Will there be poor people? of course... but there isn't enough being done at the moment.

What sort of social programs? Charity groups like the Salvation Army makes billions and billions a year just on the donations of private citizens -- without coersion from government. How much should we give them? What would happen if we all decided to give them a one time payout of $50,000?

You can't agree that the statis quo is acceptable... there needs to be alot more done socially both here, and over-seas. I refuse to accept the abuse of the less fortunate at the cost of a bunch of rich guys. That's garbage

Like I told dmek, if you don't like how the "less fortunate" are getting along, you can stroke them a check. Just don't force me to do it through the government.
Beemnseven is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-17-2007, 05:47 PM   #71
MVP
 
dmek25's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: lancaster,pa
Age: 53
Posts: 10,524
Re: Tiered minimum wage?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Beemnseven View Post
Money should be distributed equally?

Let me ask you this: Should a landscaper who cuts grass make as much as a brain surgeon?
that is definitely not my point. i mean when a company has profit, the money should be more equally divided, not the C.E.O and the board members raking in millions, while the working force makes 40.000 or so a year. the imbalance between the officers and workers is greater here in the U.S than in any other country. yes, i do think they deserve the bigger chunk of the profits. but to tell me that they are that much more important to the company, then i am, is absurd.
__________________
"It's better to be quiet and thought a fool than to open ones mouth and remove all doubt."
courtesy of 53fan
dmek25 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-17-2007, 05:52 PM   #72
MVP
 
dmek25's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: lancaster,pa
Age: 53
Posts: 10,524
Re: Tiered minimum wage?

job training, and schooling are a great equalizer. but what if your in your thirties, with a family to feed, then what? and with so many company's going belly up, many of the workforce didn't plan on looking for a job at this stage of their lives. beems, i can tell by your posts that financially you are doing just fine. thats great for you, but i tend to look at the bigger picture. and that means if i can help out in any way, just call me and ill be there
__________________
"It's better to be quiet and thought a fool than to open ones mouth and remove all doubt."
courtesy of 53fan
dmek25 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-17-2007, 05:55 PM   #73
MVP
 
dmek25's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: lancaster,pa
Age: 53
Posts: 10,524
Re: Tiered minimum wage?

i went for a 2 year period that i worked 2 jobs. not because i wanted to. but i have seen both sides of the issue. and i tend not to forget. the easy way is to turn your back, and second guess why people are in the situations that they are in. not all of them made the bed that they are currently laying in. i have never recieved anyones help, nor have i asked. but everyone is not as motivated as i. for the willing, this is the least they can do
__________________
"It's better to be quiet and thought a fool than to open ones mouth and remove all doubt."
courtesy of 53fan
dmek25 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-18-2007, 10:00 AM   #74
Pro Bowl
 
Beemnseven's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Virginia Beach
Age: 41
Posts: 5,301
Re: Tiered minimum wage?

Quote:
Originally Posted by dmek25 View Post
that is definitely not my point. i mean when a company has profit, the money should be more equally divided, not the C.E.O and the board members raking in millions, while the working force makes 40.000 or so a year. the imbalance between the officers and workers is greater here in the U.S than in any other country. yes, i do think they deserve the bigger chunk of the profits. but to tell me that they are that much more important to the company, then i am, is absurd.
All right, let me put it a different way -- should the parking lot attendant at Fed Ex Field make as much as Santana Moss? Should their pay be more equal?

It is no different from the CEO of Toyota Motor Corporation and the auto worker -- one is infinitely more valuable than the other, and one can be easily replaced by another. Most people can weld two sheets of metal together. Not many can plan, tactically manage profits, organize budgets, hire effectively, and provide leadership in economically difficult times.

By the way dmek, you probably make more than me.
Beemnseven is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-18-2007, 03:53 PM   #75
Wildcard Bitches
 
RobH4413's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Bethesda, MD
Age: 29
Posts: 2,496
Re: Tiered minimum wage?

I just wrote a friggin book for a response...

and it all got deleted some-how...

there will be a response coming later today, but im really frustrated right now.

man, this could almost get it's own "f" thread....
__________________
This is what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps!
RobH4413 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 09:03 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2015, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site is not officially affiliated with the Washington Redskins or the NFL.
Page generated in 0.55658 seconds with 9 queries

Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.2.0 RC5

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25